Dipping Toes into Commercial Raw – Lots of questions

[wimama]

Well, since finding this site about 2 weeks ago my plan on feeding my new kitten has planned quite a bit.  My original plan was dry food with a little bit of wet, then after reading and researching I started feeding all canned food and now I picked up some commercial raw at the store.  LOL.

Today I picked up some can food, some trial packets of Stella & Chewys Freeze Dried raw, a Bravo sample pack, Primal trial pack, and a sample of Fresh is Best Turkey. 

-My cat almost 5 month old kitten is eating about one 5.5 oz can of wet food a day.  How much raw food should I expect to see in one day?

-Do you defrost a whole days worth of raw at a time? 

-What commercial raw foods are your favorites?  Besides the brands I bought I am also looking at are Darwin,  Nature’s Variety and Nature’s Menu. 

-Stella & Chewy’s Frozen Dog Raw food, is it ok to feed to a cat?  Other brands of frozen raw are label for dogs and cats and Stella & Chewy’s frozen is labeled just for dogs.

 

[maewkaew]

Re how much of a commercial raw frozen food would be the equivalent  of the 5.5 ounce can your kitten is now eating:    Different foods can vary a lot in calories,  so I would compare the calories in the current food and the new food,  rather than go by weight or volume,   to get a starting idea of the amount to feed.   Then keep an eye on the kitten's body condition and adjust the amount as needed.   ( and of course this will change as he grows up. )     

 Dr Pierson of catinfo.org has a chart that has nutrition info for quite a few different foods if you want to compare. 

 I feed Nature's Variety Instinct raw frozen patties  as part of my cats' diet.    I do defrost a day's worth at once .  In fact I have sometimes fed some that was defrosted the day before (and kept refrigerated)  I've  never noticed a  problem from that and have been using this for several years.    

 I feed the venison which I started feeding to my cat with IBD but the other cats loved it, too.  

I seem to recall that someone on here wrote to Stella and Chewys  and S &C's  told them that their dog food is not balanced for cats for a complete diet.    

 I've never tried Fresh is Best regular food but my cats love their duck heart treats. 

 

[franksmom]

It will say on the package how much to feed by weight and activity level. Generally you can feed less raw than wet.

 

[lilin]

Well, since finding this site about 2 weeks ago my plan on feeding my new kitten has planned quite a bit.  My original plan was dry food with a little bit of wet, then after reading and researching I started feeding all canned food and now I picked up some commercial raw at the store.  LOL.

Today I picked up some can food, some trial packets of Stella & Chewys Freeze Dried raw, a Bravo sample pack, Primal trial pack, and a sample of Fresh is Best Turkey. 

-My cat almost 5 month old kitten is eating about one 5.5 oz can of wet food a day.  How much raw food should I expect to see in one day?

-Do you defrost a whole days worth of raw at a time? 

-What commercial raw foods are your favorites?  Besides the brands I bought I am also looking at are Darwin,  Nature’s Variety and Nature’s Menu. 

-Stella & Chewy’s Frozen Dog Raw food, is it ok to feed to a cat?  Other brands of frozen raw are label for dogs and cats and Stella & Chewy’s frozen is labeled just for dogs.

Is that your kitty in your avatar? Cute!

- Usually, you feed slightly less raw than you would wet. There's no filler in it and it's more nutritionally dense, so you don't need as much. Primal has a calculator on their website, but keep in mind this varies by the manufacturer. There should be a feeding guide on the package or website.

http://www.primalpetfoods.com/education/calc

- Yup. Every night after dinner, I put her food for the next day into little containers, one for each meal, and stick 'em in the fridge. When it's meal time, I usually put the container in a bowl of warm water for a few minutes to take off the chill and defrost any remaining frozen bits.

- I use Nature's Variety and Primal. My kitty likes both, but seems slightly partial to Nature's Variety.

- Not as anything but a treat, no (I had a cat who liked dog treats!). Dog food usually has a lower percentage of meat, and a higher percentage of fruits and veggies. Dogs are carnivores, but they aren't obligate carnivores like cats are. Dogs also produce their own taurine, whereas cats don't, so taurine is essential to a cat's diet, and will be lacking from dog food. A dog diet is not nutritionally complete for a cat.

 

[wimama]

Yes, that is our new kitten in my Avatar.  We think is pretty cute. 

Ok, so I should focus on total calories in the food and the protein percentage I would presume. 

Do you all use Stainless Steel dishes?  Right now I am using ceramic dishes.

Do you do anything special to clean or maintain the dishes?  Handwash, dishwasher?

What brands do you think are the most economical? 

And more favorite brand suggestions would be appreciated.  Anyone try Nature's Menu?  The store had 3 pounds of small patties of Nature's Menu for $11. 

What protein sources do you have in rotation? 

Our kitty so far doesn't seem real picky.  She was not real crazy about the beef can food I feed her though, so we will see how she likes the Bravo beef.

 

[wimama]

Anyone try Nature's Variety bites versus the medallions?

 

[ldg]

For a discussion on types of dishes used to feed raw, we were just recently discussing that! http://www.thecatsite.com/t/260796/what-do-you-feed-your-cats-on

As for feeding amounts, most raw feeders figure the amount to feed based on a percentage of a cat's weight. 2% - 4% of body weight is usual, depending on activity level. Young, active cats probably eat towards the higher end. For most adult cats here on TCS, I'd say the general amount averages around 2%, some a little more. :nod:

As for the S&C frozen for dogs, it has added taurine. It IS complete and balanced for cats: it just has more fiber/carbs because of the fruit & veggies in it. As I recall, it's limited to 5% of the food, so no different than Nature's Variety. Someone may want to contact S&C to verify that part.

We don't have a dishwasher. I treat their dishes and the counter/cutting board/prep area the exact same as when I prepare meat for us for a meal.

 

[pinkman]

I generally feed around five different proteins. That's chicken (frankenprey), turkey, duck, mutton, and rabbit. I also feed freeze-dried Stella &Chewy's. My cat is three, around 8 pounds and eats three ounces a day. That's in between 2% and 2.5% of her weight. I also feed her some raw egg yolks as a treat once a week.

I use both stainless steel and ceramic. When clicker training I use a spoon. I hand wash everything since I do not have a dishwasher. I haven't noticed any problems with this.

Before when I tried raw prior to going all out, I was using Primal's nuggets.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Stella and Chewy's does make a frozen CAT food (raw), as well as dehydrated food.  I've purchased it before.  Also purchased Natures Menu.  That's actually what mine started out on (Nature's Menu).  Their prices are very good, and they will normally throw in something free along with your order if you talk to them on the phone.

I use saucers from my fine china for their dishes, and I normally just hand wish them since I need them 3 times a day and don't run the dishwasher that often

.

For defrosting, I'll defrost a couple of days worth at a time, since I freeze it up that way.  Never had any issues with it going bad.

All commercial brands should have a feeding guide on them.  When (if) you  move to making up your own, then it's probably easier just to go by the percentage of their body weight, and monitor whether or not they are gaining or losing.  One of mine weighs 13 lbs but eats less than the other who weighs 9 lbs, just because he's less active.

 

[lilin]

Yes, that is our new kitten in my Avatar.  We think is pretty cute. 

Ok, so I should focus on total calories in the food and the protein percentage I would presume. 

Do you all use Stainless Steel dishes?  Right now I am using ceramic dishes.

Do you do anything special to clean or maintain the dishes?  Handwash, dishwasher?

What brands do you think are the most economical? 

And more favorite brand suggestions would be appreciated.  Anyone try Nature's Menu?  The store had 3 pounds of small patties of Nature's Menu for $11. 

What protein sources do you have in rotation? 

Our kitty so far doesn't seem real picky.  She was not real crazy about the beef can food I feed her though, so we will see how she likes the Bravo beef.

Yeah. Like I said, check out their feeding recommendations. They should be on the bag or online.

I use stainless steel dishses. It's just much easier to ensure you get them totally clean.

I handwash everything -- I don't have a dishwasher. I use my same ole' dish soap that I do on everything else. I've started using gloves, because I've found getting dish soap on my hands 3 or more times a day is rather hard on the skin!

Most commercial raw food diets have a little more fat in them than is strictly preferable. For this reason, I keep rabbit constantly in rotation (I always have 2 or 3 kinds of meat that I switch up daily) because rabbit is very high protein and low fat. It helps even out her over-all intake of protein to fat. Otherwise, I mostly stick to poultry, and sometimes beef. I don't feed fish, and Pia isn't fond of quail.

I've used both the Nature's Variety bites and medallions. It doesn't make much difference, really. But I think the medallions are easier to portion, since they come in 1oz chunks, so you just count the number of medallions.

 

[wimama]

Right now we have been feeding her from some Corelle small plates.  Problem is we also like to use those plates so I need figure out a good substitute plate.  She doesn't seem to like the bowls as much.  I don't want us sharing plates both due to risk of contamination and due to the fact she now thinks she is eating every time she sees the little white plates.  She is always in the kitchen meowing.

The Primal calculator recommends 160 calories a day or 3.6 nuggets (3.6 oz of their food) a day.  I calculated using 5 pound weight, she is growing like crazy and weighed 4 1/2 pounds at her last appointment.  She is a few days shy of 5 months old.  It doesn't look like she should need more than about 4 oz, even if she is a little heavier. 

So far she at the Primal Pheasant, no problems.  She turned her nose up at the Primal chicken & salmon until I mixed it in with her can food (1:1 mix).  Then she pretty much at the whole meal. 

I am definitely going to pick up Nature's Variety this month.  I have a coupon for Pet Supplies Plus and I called and my store caries Nature's Variety.

 

[wimama]

Do I need to supplement with a probiotic? 

I have seen several post on here mentioning supplements and toppers? 

Are these things needed if you are doing a balanced commercial raw?  So far I have been mixing with canned food to get our kitty to eat the raw food.
 

 

[ldg]

Well, the toppers are just a transition tool. They're tasty stuff to sprinkle on top of the food to help kitties that don't like the food to eat it. :lol3: (Kind of like getting a child that's been eating mac n cheese to like a salad - use lots of cheese. ).

As to supplements, they're not technically necessary with commercially prepared raw food.

That said, those of us that use salmon or krill oil, probiotics, and egg yolks aren't necessarily using them to balance the food.

I provide my cats with probiotics daily because in the wild, a cat eating caught prey would be getting a dose of probiotics with every meal. Humans eat a lot of carbs, which provide substrate for healthy bacterial growth - cats don't, and high protein diets don't promote the same level of ongoing colonization by healthy bacteria in the gut. So I give my cats 10 billion CFU of live cultures daily. I've been using the Natural Factors double strength acidophilus+bifidus supplement (I buy it on Amazon), but I'm probably going to switch to a probiotic Carolina found: and I'll be using 1/4 pill daily instead of a full capsule. I just sprinkle it on the food.

The meat many use for their cats' diets is not grass-fed, grass-finished OR pastured animals. Especially when it comes to poultry, almost none of it is pastured. So the profile of the fats is not natural, and is out-of-balance. These animals have a lot of omega 6s - which our cats NEED - but low in omega 3s, which are anti-inflammatory. The omega 6: omega 3 ratio in a cat's natural diet has been shown to be at about 2:1. In our commercial diets (canned/kibble) they can be as high as 20 (or more) : 1. mschauer kindly analyzed the diet I provide my cats with a program she wrote, and without supplementation of sardines, krill or salmon, the O6:O3 ratio was 17:1. So supplementing with a few sardines (water, no salt) weekly, and/or 500mg of krill oil or salmon oil daily can really help improve that ratio.

Egg yolks are just a super nutrition-dense, choline-rich treat, if your cats like them. Mine don't, which is one of the reasons I keep some ground food in their diet. I use the ground food to mix in the egg yolk I want them to eat. In addition to the choline, it provides vitamin D and more healthy fats. They also help prevent hairballs: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/250653/egg-lecithin-for-hairballs

So these kinds of things are all optional - but improve their immune system function and overall health, IMO.

Oh - this is the salmon oil I use. Fish oils are very unstable, so I looked for one that wasn't subject to heat processing.
I think they're also available at Costco.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

The Primal calculator recommends 160 calories a day or 3.6 nuggets (3.6 oz of their food) a day.  I calculated using 5 pound weight, she is growing like crazy and weighed 4 1/2 pounds at her last appointment.  She is a few days shy of 5 months old.  It doesn't look like she should need more than about 4 oz, even if she is a little heavier. 

Just wanted to mention that those Primal nuggets aren't really 1 oz each.  They are more like .7 oz each, so if you are not weighing her raw food, you might want to take that into consideration.  I called Primal and asked them about it, and the only thing they told me was  that the BAG equaled 3 lbs, even if the nuggets weren't 1 oz each

.   What kind of answer is that?  But, no  matter, every single time I measured an individual nugget it was approx .7 oz, , so I checked my scale to see if it was accurate, and it was. 

 

[wimama]

Thank you!   We are needing some new Human probiotics..  Is there a certain mix that is better for cats.  The link above looks like probiotics geared for humans right?  I will definitely get her some probiotics.  I will hold off on the salmon oil for a while.  I am not sure she likes sea food or salmon yet.  She did no seem found of the Primal with the salmon in it.

I went and bought some Nature's Variety Chicken and duck bites from our local pet store before my coupon expired.  Our kitty, Molly, loves the Nature's variety bites.   She gobbles it all up and doesn't leave any in her dish.   I think it may be partly due to the shape of the little bites.  I was planning on buying the medallion style bags, but the store only had the bites and the bites were on sale.  I can't pass up a good sale.  It is harder to measure but I have a nice kitchen digital scale that I can play around with to figure out the right amount to feed here. 

I am feeding her a mix of can and raw for right now and I think I am going to continue that for the next month or two.  We will be going on vacation and it will be easier for my MIL to feed her can food while we are gone.  Our kitty is growing like crazy and has a huge appetite right now.  She has bulked up a bit and I can feel some serious muscle on her thighs that wasn't there a few weeks ago.  That is so different from having to coax an older cat with renal failure to eat. Our last cat was a tiny little Burmese cat that was 6 1/2 pounds at her heaviest. 

Molly has an appointment with the vet this Friday. We brought her home from the shelter at 4 1/2 pounds and I would be not be surprised if she is 6 pounds already.