Difference between probiotics and and slippery elm syrup?

[zirkel]

And which would more specifically address feline constipation and/or bowel movement regularity?

Can they be used in conjuction with each other?

Any issues using either in conjuction with antibiotics (climdamycin - Stella just had a full mouth extraction for acute stomatitis)?

My local specialty food store just provided free samples of OptaGest probiotic. Has anyone used this?

Thanks!

 

[stephanietx]

It's very possible that the antibiotic is causing the constipation if this is a new issue.  Probiotics help replenish the good flora in the gut.  SEB is a specific herb shown to help with digestive issues.  It coats the digestive tract and helps reduce inflammation and regulate bowel movements.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Both Slippery Elm and probiotics can help with constipation. Slippery Elm works by coating the digestive tract to help feces move through the colon more easily. There are also reports that suggest it can help to stimulate nerve transmission in the colon and therefore improve motility. I have a male cat who has been dealing with constipation on and off in the last two years, and I have used different things to help Max deal with this such as prescription fibre food, laxatives, pumpkin, cisapride. My experiences in using Slippery Elm in particular however, have been nothing short of amazing. Max has gone from pooping every 2+ days to now pooping almost every day.

Probiotics on the other hand, help cats to better digest their food by introducing beneficial bacteria to improve gut flora. When digestion is optimal, food is processed more efficiently and the result can be more normal and regular bowel movements. There can be different reasons for constipation, including regular antibiotic and other medication use, so it is important to identify the cause first before trying different things.

SEB and Probiotics do different things and so there should be no problem in using both at the same time. However, the important thing is to start SMALL in the amount of SEB and/or Probiotics that you use initially.

VERY IMPORTANT : Slippery Elm can interfere with the absorption and effectiveness of some medications, so it is not advisable to use SEB while on antibiotics and other important medications.

I have an ongoing thread that I started below in the main Cat Health lineup, which details much of the progress I have had in using Slippery Elm. You will also find information here about dosage and other people's experiences, etc. 

Here is the link : http://www.thecatsite.com/t/270597/slippery-elm-bark-wet-food-managing-constipation

 

[zirkel]

Constipation issues prior to antibiotics. I've spoken with two vets who feel the constipations issues are related to a grain-free diet, or possibly a protien allergy from the single source chicken in her wet foods. I don't necessarily agree. There is pre-BM butt dragging. Anal glands empty. No worms in stool.

I'm about to experiment with different protein sources and get her off the Z/D prescribed by the vet. Adding pumpkin to the Z/D resulted in gooey and CONTINUED strain stools, and I'd like to get the bowel movements regular so that she can heal from the dental extractions.

No SEB with antibiotics noted!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Constipation issues prior to antibiotics. I've spoken with two vets who feel the constipations issues are related to a grain-free diet, or possibly a protien allergy from the single source chicken in her wet foods. I don't necessarily agree. There is pre-BM butt dragging. Anal glands empty. No worms in stool.

I'm about to experiment with different protein sources and get her off the Z/D prescribed by the vet. Adding pumpkin to the Z/D resulted in gooey and CONTINUED strain stools, and I'd like to get the bowel movements regular so that she can heal from the dental extractions.

No SEB with antibiotics noted!

If its not possible to do the SEB right now, you could do the probiotics which will help to get things started and also replenish healthy bacteria lost while on the antibiotics? That's one of the things about antibiotics - they aren't selective when it comes to the bacteria they kill off. Thirty minutes after the antibiotic should be fine as a dosing time.

 

[white shadow]

Hi zirkel !

If you want a quick course in how your cat's gut system works, what can go wrong and what you can do to correct/prevent problems, there is no better source of reliable information (imo) than this one: http://www.felineconstipation.org/

It's written in plain language and fact/science based. It's written so that you can take in the info in a short-course or fuller course format, or just skip to the topic of your interest.

One of the most important lessons from the site is that, not only do we have to feed our cats BUT, we also need to feed our cat's gut bacteria....and that's done by providing the appropriate amount of a suitable fiber along with the protein and fat to feed the rest of the cat.

Slippery Elm Bark is a fiber that feeds the gut bacteria - so, it's a pre-biotic - and it offers some other benefits like coating the stomach and intestines to relieve irritation and help things 'move along' smoothly.

 No SEB with antibiotics noted!

Well........that doesn't need to be an absolute "NO".....

 Do not give slippery elm bark at the same time as any other medications or supplements - as University of Maryland Medical Center explains, it can inhibit the absorption of the medications.  It is therefore best to give it 1-2 hours before or after any other medications (especially antibiotics), and ideally on an empty stomach, although it is safe to sprinkle it on food if you wish

http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm#SEB1     (that's another trustworthy, reliable site)

 I've spoken with two vets who feel the constipations issues are related to a grain-free diet.....

Hmmmmmmmm.........lotsa cats eating grain-free (6 right here !) and no sign of constipation......hmmmmm

Perhaps the short course offered on that site will help you understand what's going on....better than those two vets !

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 The link to the University of Maryland website, are instructions for giving SEB for human use. As we can't know how a cat will react to something as readily as we can with a human, the application and efficacy for animals is a little different. I wouldn't suggest sprinkling SEB right onto food without adding water, as SEB will absorb 10 times its weight in water. Its best to mix up SEB powder in a dish of water and then add this to wet food. For additional information about SEB written by a vet : http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

I too am a little surprised at the suggestion that grain-free would contribute to constipation - Its usually the other way around.

 

[ldg]

Constipation issues prior to antibiotics. I've spoken with two vets who feel the constipations issues are related to a grain-free diet, or possibly a protien allergy from the single source chicken in her wet foods. I don't necessarily agree. There is pre-BM butt dragging. Anal glands empty. No worms in stool.

I'm about to experiment with different protein sources and get her off the Z/D prescribed by the vet. Adding pumpkin to the Z/D resulted in gooey and CONTINUED strain stools, and I'd like to get the bowel movements regular so that she can heal from the dental extractions.

No SEB with antibiotics noted!

Cats are obligate carnivores. They actually eat the animals that eat the grain, not the grain. In fact, dogs and people have five different pathways for metabolizing carbohydrates (grains come with carbs). Cats have just one, and thus a very limited ability to properly digest grain.

While some cats may have impaired motility due to various reasons, and as felineconstipation.org says, adding some APPROPRIATE fiber may help (pumpkin or slippery elm, for instance), I personally would rather feed my kitties something more species-appropriate, like some egg yolk. Egg yolk improves motility, and as it is high in phosphorus without accompanying calcium, it also helps "loosen things up" a bit. It's a nutrition-packed package with healthy omegas, protein, and vitamin D....

As to the slippery elm bark powder and meds. Slippery elms simply slows down the process of metabolizing some things. With nutrients, this can be a good thing - helps ensure cats are getting "more" of the nutrition from their food if the food was whipping right through their systems. But it's not great with meds. It can be given when they are on medication, it's just you need to be mindful of using the slippery elm bark powder at a different TIME than the meds. If you give slippery elm bark powder in the morning and evening, then give the antibiotics in the middle of the day.

And slippery elm bark powder and probiotics are synergistic: 1 + 1 equals more than 2 when used together.

I give my cats probiotics twice a day, every day. Now that they're all healthy, I don't give them large doses, but as the gut is responsible for 65% - 70% of immune system function, retaining healthy gut microflora, IMO, is an important part of cat (and human) health. Antibiotics completely wipe out gut flora, so whether you use probiotics during antibiotic administration (again, they must be provided separately from the antibiotics, as pointed out already) or after the course of antibiotics is done - if you're not going to keep your cat(s) on probiotics, I would use them for a minimum of two weeks (and preferably a month) after the antibiotics are finished.

 

[zirkel]

So it sounds like what I'm reading (and it's difficult to do so on a small iphone) that my cat's issue is most likely related to a lack of "good" gut bacteria (she was also on antibiotics when I adopted her from the humane society 3-4 weeks ago) rather than a food/protein allergy?

Just called my vet. They carry Fortiflora by purina. Is the a probiotic used/recommended by others on this site, or is fortiflora the way to go? They close in 1 hour so expedient replies appreciated.

 

[stephanietx]

I've spoken with two vets who feel the constipations issues are related to a grain-free diet, or possibly a protien allergy from the single source chicken in her wet foods. I don't necessarily agree.

I have a cat who's been on a grain-free diet for 6 years and she has very normal bowel movements, so I don't think it's the totally grain free diet.  You can also add plain canned pumpkin to help soften her stool to make it easier to pass.  My RB kitty used to drag her rear.  I think it was because her stool was hard.  Adding pumpkin helped soften her stool and made it more comfortable for her to defecate.

 

[susank521]

A quick Cat Site search turned up lots of discussion about probiotics. Here's the most recent thread in the search results: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/262587/probiotics-search-human-grade-and-cfus  (I know it's hard to search on a phone).

The majority seem to feel that there are better and less expensive probiotics than Fortiflora.

 

[zirkel]

Fortiflora added to Lotus Just Juicy Turkey. We'll wait and see what comes out the other end. Now back to cleaning those skid marks off the couch!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

So it sounds like what I'm reading (and it's difficult to do so on a small iphone) that my cat's issue is most likely related to a lack of "good" gut bacteria (she was also on antibiotics when I adopted her from the humane society 3-4 weeks ago) rather than a food/protein allergy?


Just called my vet. They carry Fortiflora by purina. Is the a probiotic used/recommended by others on this site, or is fortiflora the way to go? They close in 1 hour so expedient replies appreciated.

It may be poor gut flora based on the history of antibiotic use, or entirely something else. It's important to look at different things and weigh what you read here and at other sites with the symptoms and circumstances of your cat's particular history and current condition.

I tried Fortiflora on my cats some time ago but I didn't think much of it, being a Purina product. I think in order to get the full benefit of what probiotics have to offer, you need one with live cultures. I purchased Natural Factors Acidolphilus Bifidus which I will be giving to my cats. You may find this at some drug stores, but more likely a health or whole foods store. If using something with live cultures, you will want to keep this refrigerated.

 

[zirkel]

I ordered a multiple strain probiotic from Amazon recommended by Caroline in a previous thread. It kinda' makes sense when you think about it: History of antibiotic use adversely affecting gut flora, resulting in constipation. Thanks all for helping me play this out.

Dave and Stella

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• zirkel
• Jan 25, 2014

 

[susank521]

Awhhh! What a pretty girl. I hope the FME clears her stomatis. 

 When you said "just had a full mouth extraction" I didn't realize how literally you meant that. When did she have the surgery? Anesthesia and pain medications can cause constipation too, or exacerbate it, as in Stella's case. Best wishes for her recovery and that the probiotics help her. 

 

[oneandahalfcats]

What a pretty tortie! Hope things get a whole lot better for your little Stella girl. I didn't realize about the FME until just now when Susan pointed this out. Wow. Sorry I missed this - I had just zeroed in on the question, without taking everything into account. The FME puts a bit of a new perspective on things in that food digestion without the benefit of chewing to help to breakdown food beforehand, will be ultra important! Feeding foods that don't require a lot of chewing would be on my mind as a first priority going forward.

 

[stephanietx]

She's a beautiful girl!  Once a tortie lover, always a tortie lover.  Hope the probiotics help her.  Keep us posted!

 

[zirkel]

OK, this might have been part of the problem: Tapeworm!

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• zirkel
• Jan 27, 2014

 

[susank521]

Poor Stella! That's a tapeworm?? Oh my! I've never seen a tapeworm like that. I guess I've only ever seen the segments. So did you worm her and she expelled this?