Diary Of a Stubborn Cat!

[brandy rowe]

I thought it might be helpful to me and newbies if I start a thread documenting Mario's transition to raw like Carolina did.  Since I've never done this hopefully I'll offer and get offers of some great info here.  If this is successful maybe it will help will some stubborn kitties!  I'm going to try the straight kibble to raw transition with her.  I'm hoping this whole ordeal will take less than a year.

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About Mario

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I won't be able to use a lot of the tips and tricks on Mario that work on other cats.  Here are a few things about my stubborn girl.

a. She's an IBD kitty - a chronic vomiter.

b. She's currently on the prednisolone at 2.5m a day.

c. She's holding steady at 11.8 lbs but could afford to lose a pound during the transition.

d. I think she MAY be allergic to chicken but I'm not positive.

e. She turns her nose up at Forti Flora, Bonita Flakes, Freeze dried treats, and every other treat imaginable.  If it's out there, I've tried it and she won't eat it.

f. Wet food makes her vomit.

g. I cannot go to long between meals or Mario coughs from acid coming back up.  I will need to let the feeder go once while I'm at work.  But she will not be as hungry as I'd like her to be for this transition.

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The Brands

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I got 5 different raws that I plan on rotating every few days to see if she has preferences.  I expect to be throwing away a lot over the next few months, but I want her to get used to the smell she won't be threatened by it.

Primal - Salmon & Chicken nuggets

Nature's Variety - Lamb patties

Nature's Menu - Beef patties

Oma's Pride - Rabbit

Oma's Pride - Venison

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DAY 1 - Friday March 9th AM

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I've thawed a beef patty and I pull it up into tiny pieces and put it in the fridge (since thats what was delivered yesterday and I had a chance to thaw it.)

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DAY 1 PM

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I warm up the beef in a bowel of water.  Dinner time! I call Mario for food and she comes running.  I hold a piece of the beef to her and she sniffs it.  She shakes her head and bolts from the room.  Yep - that's my girl!

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DAY 2 - March 10th AM

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I found a Raw store a few train stops from my house so I pick up the Nature's Variety, Primal and Oma's Pride.  I put a few nuggets in the fridge to thaw.

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DAY 2 PM

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Dinner Time!  I come home and Mario runs to greets me at the door like usual.  I take off my shoes coat and wash my hands and give her her pred pill.  I take out a bit of beef and offer it to her. She sniffs it and looks at me like I'm nuts.  I put down her kibble that she loves.  But somehow I've contaminated it and she turns her nose up at it.

An hour later I offer her the same kibble and she gobbles it up.

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DAY 3 AM Sunday March 11th AM

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Mario pats my arm for me to get up and feed her just like every morning.  I pull out a bit of beef.  She sniffs it and walks away.  I call her back for kibble.  She comes back but again, but somehow I've contaminated the kibble.  She takes a bite and spits it out.

An hour later I offer her the same kibble and she gobbles it up.  I offer her a piece of lamb that I have just cut up.  She sniffs it and runs away.

Sigh...This is going to be one very long process....

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My 2 week goal

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My ultimate goal for the next few weeks is to get her to know that her kibble is still the same old kibble whether I offer her something else or not.  (It worked in the past when I tried transitioning to wet food so hopefully it will work here also)

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

We both started our conversion to raw on the same day and time.  Friday night!  However, I think I have a slight advantage in that I was able to convert mine to scheduled wet food feedings first, AND I found toppers that they all like, which I think is a must for you. 

Here is what I would try for the next meal.  Crush up some of Mario's kibble into a powder and make some pea sized balls out of the raw (just like Carolina did for Lucky) and roll them thoroughly in the crushed kibble.  Set them (just one or two maybe) on her plate, but far away from the actual kibble for the first time, just to get her used to them.  Then keep doing that as she gets used to them being there, and slowly move them closer to her kibble until she eats one.  Then, hopefully, you're on your way

That's what I did, and it only took one day before they were eating them.  Here's my thread:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/242097/officially-started-them-on-raw

Now let's see what the experts say... Carolina?  Laurie?  Lauren?  AC?  Others?

 

[feralvr]

Now let's see what the experts say... Carolina?  Laurie?  Lauren?  AC?  Others?

EXPERT!!!!!!! WHO .... hardly fits myself :lol3:....

Hi Brandy I really wish you SO much luck in your new journey to get Mario eating raw. I think one of the biggest let-downs in the beginning for me was that I EXPECTED my cat's to all just LOVE LOVE raw meat. It was a huge shock to me that the some of my cat's are still to this day - refusing to make this easy for me. I figured that cat's in general - would ALL just go crazy for their "species related natural diet". I soon found out that this raw transition would take a very, very long time for some of my cat's. I have tried many different commercially made raw diets and most of them have been rejected. I do have two cat's who went 100% raw very quickly. Walden and Wendall. My other four are quite a challenge for me. Now that I have just accepted the fact that this could potentially take forever I am having fun again trying different meats for them. I actually had to stop offering the raw meat mixed in with their canned food. Because - they started backing off of canned food all together ... So I basically had to start over. Now I offer the raw after they eat a small wet meal in the morning in their regular spots. Then we go to a different spot for the raw servings. It has been working for us so far. They also get fresh raw organic chicken at dinnertime mixed in with canned. So far, I have been successfully mixing in the raw chicken with wet and they are eating!! No backing off of the plate at dinnertime. They don't seem to mind it being on their plate with the canned and if they don't want to eat the raw pieces, they will pick around it. But most of the four fussies are eating the raw chicken now :happy3:. Then the bedtime meal has been Stella and Chewey's Freeze-dried (FD ) dog patties. I just soak and serve. They all are happily eating all the varieties of S&C FD proteins. BUT they won't eat the S&C Raw Frozen meats :dk: I have been feeding raw to them for almost two months now - and I am still in the "convincing them to eat raw" stage

Best of luck :cross: with Mario!!!!!!!!!!!! My only advice is to just keep, keep offering, over and over again. I have found that even IF they turn their noses up at a brand/protein, they will on some day's, shock me and just eat it :happy3: :bigthumb: There are, of course, certain brands/proteins they all just refuse (the four fussies, that is) no matter how hard I try and no matter how many offerings they are given. So I take those out of the rotation completely. It can be SO fun though to just keep trying and the joy I feel when they DO try some - makes is so worthwhile for me :bigwink:. The fabulous and positive changes I have seen in my cat's has been incredible- even the ones who are at 50% are reaping the benefits of raw meat

 

[brandy rowe]

Oh thank you both so much! It's been two months of crazy (tried to switch her to wet but she would vomit) and I'm so tired of fussing with my stubborn girl.  I honestly (even though I knew darn well she wouldn't) thought she would just go gaga over the raw even though I've offered her ham or chicken off my own plate from time to time and she's refused that.

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DAY 3 PM

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This afternoon I offered her some beef again and she turned her nose up at it.  But I shook her kibble cup (I ration out her daily portion in the morning) and she turned right around and ate a few kibbles! Yay!

Tonight I did the exact same and she refused her "contaminated" kibble.  I made some little kibble coated raw dollups (I'm glad the kibble sticks to the raw!) and put them on her plate.  She totally stuck her tongue out at me and walked away!

It's so great to have this forum and hear the encouragement!!

I do NOT know how you do it with all of your fuzzy babies! My ONE keeps me on my toes!

 

[ldg]

We both started our conversion to raw on the same day and time.  Friday night!  However, I think I have a slight advantage in that I was able to convert mine to scheduled wet food feedings first, AND I found toppers that they all like, which I think is a must for you. 

Here is what I would try for the next meal.  Crush up some of Mario's kibble into a powder and make some pea sized balls out of the raw (just like Carolina did for Lucky) and roll them thoroughly in the crushed kibble.  Set them (just one or two maybe) on her plate, but far away from the actual kibble for the first time, just to get her used to them.  Then keep doing that as she gets used to them being there, and slowly move them closer to her kibble until she eats one.  Then, hopefully, you're on your way :cross:

That's what I did, and it only took one day before they were eating them.  Here's my thread:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/242097/officially-started-them-on-raw

Now let's see what the experts say... Carolina?  Laurie?  Lauren?  AC?  Others?

Mine haven't eaten kibble for a long time now, but I have to agree with Sally. :nod: Carolina NEVER thought Lucky would eat raw. At first she would walk away from her food if the pea-sized raw rolled in something yummy was on the plate with her kibble, But eventually she started eating the kibble and ignoring that horrible thing. And then she started licking the yummy stuff off that horrible thing, and then she decided to eat one. I think the first few times she spit it out after getting all the yummy stuff off of it.... but all of those little baby steps added up, and FINALLY she started eating them - and then she didn't want her kibble any longer!

Another comment: Carolina's Bugsy is also allergic to chicken. :nod: BUT when fed raw organic chicken (vegetarian fed), he is NOT allergic to it! Same goes for turkey. :nod: So you may find that Mario can't tolerate canned chicken or turkey, but can tolerate raw, organic chicken or vegetarian - fed turkey. :nod:

Just do your best to view this as a new adventure, and celebrate the baby steps. We'll be right here with you!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

.  I made some little kibble coated raw dollups (I'm glad the kibble sticks to the raw!) and put them on her plate.  She totally stuck her tongue out at me and walked away!

It's so great to have this forum and hear the encouragement!!

I do NOT know how you do it with all of your fuzzy babies! My ONE keeps me on my toes!

Did you crush her kibble into a fine powder to thoroughly coat the raw dollups?  How big were the dollups?  I would make sure they are pretty teeny (pea sized), and really roll them around in the kibble powder until they are no longer sticky at all.  And put them as far away from her kibble as you can, yet keep them on her plate.  If you serve her in a bowl, maybe change it out for a plate so you have room to do this?

I don't know how these people who have 6 - 8 cats do it

.  I've only got 4 and I can't keep 'em straight!  But sometimes I think it might be good to have at least two, that way if one isn't cooperating, but sees the other doing something (like eating raw) they might think "hmmm...maybe I should try this since they're eating it"

 

[ldg]

This afternoon I offered her some beef again and she turned her nose up at it.  But I shook her kibble cup (I ration out her daily portion in the morning) and she turned right around and ate a few kibbles! Yay!

Just FYI, a lot of our cats have had problems eating beef. ( ). Some cats have trouble with "cow."

Tonight I did the exact same and she refused her "contaminated" kibble.  I made some little kibble coated raw dollups (I'm glad the kibble sticks to the raw!) and put them on her plate.  She totally stuck her tongue out at me and walked away!

Yep! That was Carolina's Lucky! The first thing we celebrated was when Lucky started eating her kibble when offered on the same plate as the raw! That's going to be your Mario!

It's so great to have this forum and hear the encouragement!! :high5:

I do NOT know how you do it with all of your fuzzy babies! My ONE keeps me on my toes!

It IS great to have each other. I would have gone out of my mind if I were trying to do this on my own, in a vacuum!

Re: the lots of cats... the ones eating raw and doing well provide encouragement to keep going for those that are being a PIA. :lol3:

 

[brandy rowe]

Did you crush her kibble into a fine powder to thoroughly coat the raw dollups?  How big were the dollups?  I would make sure they are pretty teeny (pea sized), and really roll them around in the kibble powder until they are no longer sticky at all.  And put them as far away from her kibble as you can, yet keep them on her plate.  If you serve her in a bowl, maybe change it out for a plate so you have room to do this?

I used a hammer - must have spent about 30 minute smacking those things!  It's not as fine as I would have liked.  I noticed the Natural Balance is pretty darn hard.  My poor kitties tummy...I don't know how she can digest it!  (I guess that's the problem! Ha!)

I actually found a nut/spice grinder that I think I'm going to order.  It's going to be my new Kibble grinder!

The plate....  it actually took her about a month to start eating off of a plate (when I was trying the wet food transition) and even still I couldn't get her to always eat off of the plate.  I was successful in sometimes getting her to eat off of the plate with the wet food on there finally, but it took a good few weeks.  She prefers her automatic feeder bowel so I thought I might try that for a few weeks.  If not I may have to try and go back to the plate....

I don't know how these people who have 6 - 8 cats do it

.  I've only got 4 and I can't keep 'em straight!  But sometimes I think it might be good to have at least two, that way if one isn't cooperating, but sees the other doing something (like eating raw) they might think "hmmm...maybe I should try this since they're eating it"

ONLY 4!!   I would love to get Mario a little playmate.  I felt like when she had a sister they sort of influenced each others eating habits.  My apartment is a little less than 700 sq feet and she's an indoor cat.  Do you think it's too small for two cats??  Would they feel cramped??
 

 

[brandy rowe]

Just FYI, a lot of our cats have had problems eating beef. (

). Some cats have trouble with "cow."
 

I've been reading a lot about that.  I guess I'll try the others and maybe add that in once she's eating the kibble.  How long can you keep the raw in the freezer before it gets freezer burned?
 

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

ONLY 4!!   I would love to get Mario a little playmate.  I felt like when she had a sister they sort of influenced each others eating habits.  My apartment is a little less than 700 sq feet and she's an indoor cat.  Do you think it's too small for two cats??  Would they feel cramped??
 

We used to live in a 700 sq foot house, and had 2 BIG dogs and 3 cats!  NO PROBLEM!  (and the cats didn't get to go outside).  I think as long as the cats have vertical space (ie. cat trees, bookcases, something they can jump up onto), they would be fine in 700 sq. feet

Did you try putting the kibble in a couple of ziploc bags and rolling over them with a rolling pin?  That usually works, but getting a coffee grinder or spice grinder sounds like an excellent idea.  Or a magic bullet works great too, and then you can also make yourself smoothies, salsa, whatever with it too

 

[brandy rowe]

We used to live in a 700 sq foot house, and had 2 BIG dogs and 3 cats!  NO PROBLEM!  (and the cats didn't get to go outside).  I think as long as the cats have vertical space (ie. cat trees, bookcases, something they can jump up onto), they would be fine in 700 sq. feet

Did you try putting the kibble in a couple of ziploc bags and rolling over them with a rolling pin?  That usually works, but getting a coffee grinder or spice grinder sounds like an excellent idea.  Or a magic bullet works great too, and then you can also make yourself smoothies, salsa, whatever with it too

Kibble SMOOTHIES!!!!! You had 2 cats and 2 dogs in a 700 sq foot house?? OH MY!!! This made my day!

What kind of buddy would be good for a 12 year old female cat? A younger male?

 

[feralvr]

It IS great to have each other. I would have gone out of my mind if I were trying to do this on my own, in a vacuum!
Re: the lots of cats... the ones eating raw and doing well provide encouragement to keep going for those that are being a PIA. :lol3:

EXACTLY!!!!!!! I can say for sure IF I did not have Walden and Wendall - my 100% raw eater's - and the fact that they made the transition immediately - I don't think I would still be at it. Especially with multiple cat's in the house. Six fussies would be too much for me to handle. I would be absolutely the CRAZIEST CRAZY CAT LADY EVER

Pipsqueak was one I thought would NEVER EVER eat raw. Well, now he gobbles up the Nature's Variety Organic Chicken and the NV Rabbit. Just goes bonker's for it. It took me almost two month's to get him to this point. AND that is the only raw he will eat other than Nature's Menu Turkey mixed with NVO Chicken He is a real tough one. No topping's - ZERO - work for him. He doesn't even like Halo treats OR the Whole Life freeze-dried chicken :shocker:. KITTY CRACK - the Whole Life - and Pipsqueak won't touch it

Just keep trying and plugging along. You will do just fine. Side note: Three of my six cat's all :nausea: on beef, bison and venison. You just have to try it in the beginning and see. It is pretty scary in the beginning of a new protein because you don't know if it will come right back up ara2: Pipsqueak will vomit within two minutes of eating a protein that doesn't agree with him. YEP - he is that sensitive.

 

[feralvr]

I used a hammer - must have spent about 30 minute smacking those things!  It's not as fine as I would have liked.  I noticed the Natural Balance is pretty darn hard.  My poor kitties tummy...I don't know how she can digest it!  (I guess that's the problem! Ha!)

My apartment is a little less than 700 sq feet and she's an indoor cat.  Do you think it's too small for two cats??  Would they feel cramped??

I use a coffee grinder to grind up kibbles. I figured this out when my older dog stopped eating and I had to syringe feed him some food to jump start his appetite. The coffee grinder works very well and then you can pour it into baggies for rolling the raw dollop's. Just make sure you clean out the coffee grinder well OR your coffee will taste and smell like kibbles :nausea: :sick: :lol3:

OH MY - I have had 4 cat's in a very tiny studio apartment 25 years ago. Not even 700 sq. ft. Vertical space doubles and triples the space needed for kitties. :nod: I think another kitty friend for Mario would be wonderful. Of course, this is coming from a person who could never have just one or two cat's..... :lol3:

 

[brandy rowe]

I use a coffee grinder to grind up kibbles. I figured this out when my older dog stopped eating and I had to syringe feed him some food to jump start his appetite. The coffee grinder works very well and then you can pour it into baggies for rolling the raw dollop's.

Just make sure you clean out the coffee grinder well

OR your coffee will taste and smell like kibbles

OH MY - I have had 4 cat's in a very tiny studio apartment 25 years ago. Not even 700 sq. ft. Vertical space doubles and triples the space needed for kitties.

I think another kitty friend for Mario would be wonderful. Of course, this is coming from a person who could never have just one or two cat's.....

I'm so close to getting Mario a kitty friend!!!  I may just after my vacation in 3 weeks.... I do hate leaving her for 10 days even though the sitter kindly visits her twice a day.  I even have her music and the tv on a timer so my "routine" still goes on even though I'm not there.  But I think simply having the presence of another body in the house would be nice for her.

EXACTLY!!!!!!! I can say for sure IF I did not have Walden and Wendall - my 100% raw eater's - and the fact that they made the transition immediately - I don't think I would still be at it. Especially with multiple cat's in the house. Six fussies would be too much for me to handle. I would be absolutely the CRAZIEST

CRAZY CAT LADY EVER

Pipsqueak was one I thought would NEVER EVER eat raw. Well, now he gobbles up the Nature's Variety Organic Chicken and the NV Rabbit. Just goes bonker's for it. It took me almost two month's to get him to this point. AND that is the only raw he will eat other than Nature's Menu Turkey mixed with NVO Chicken

He is a real tough one. No topping's - ZERO - work for him. He doesn't even like Halo treats OR the Whole Life freeze-dried chicken

. KITTY CRACK - the Whole Life - and Pipsqueak won't touch it

Just keep trying and plugging along. You will do just fine. Side note: Three of my six cat's all

on beef, bison and venison. You just have to try it in the beginning and see. It is pretty scary in the beginning of a new protein because you don't know if it will come right back up

Pipsqueak will vomit within two minutes of eating a protein that doesn't agree with him. YEP - he is that sensitive.

Mario is JUST like this! No treats no toppings, no fun kitty treats of any kind for her! She puts her nose up or sticks out her tongue at all of them! 

 

[ldg]

OH MY - I have had 4 cat's in a very tiny studio apartment 25 years ago. Not even 700 sq. ft. Vertical space doubles and triples the space needed for kitties. :nod:

We live in our RV. It's about 310 sq. ft. with 8 cats. The key is definitely vertical space. :lol3:

As to freezer burn, my understanding is that if properly wrapped, the food can be frozen for up to two years. You can just remove any portions with freezer burn, although apparently that isn't even necessary. :dk:

 

[brandy rowe]

We live in our RV. It's about 310 sq. ft. with 8 cats. The key is definitely vertical space.

Yoooowza!

  I would be in heaven with all those kitties running around.  Hahaha!   This morning I woke up to a kitty back in my face so I wrapped my arm around her and scratched her while she purred and purred.  What a wonderful way to wake up, let me tell you!

DAY 4

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Last night I got home from work and I gave Mario a handful of kibbles.  As she was eating I squished a piece of raw on the inside of her bowl.  She stopped eating and looked at me like 'what the %^&$ is THAT???'

  I told her I knew she was hungry and that she was being silly.  She looked back and forth at the kibble and the raw.  She put a piece of kibble in her mouth and spit it out.  I picked it up and put on the floor by her bowl and she gobbled it up.  Then she hesitantly ate a few kibbles out of the bowl!! Only about 3.  Then she patted the side of the bowl with her paw like 'ok - put another one on the floor!'  I gave her some head scratches, and she pushed around the kibble with her nose, then walked away.  But yay for Mario!!!

....And then I realized that it was the chicken that I used....which I meant to save for later just in case she's allergic.  Tonight I'll try the lamb. 

!!!

 

[ldg]

She took that first step! WTG Mario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....but that really is too cute, her patting the side of the bowl like "MOOOOOOM, I don't want to eat any more with that junk in my bowl!" It was like me with mushrooms on my plate as a kid.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

CONGRATULATIONS!  She's getting there, little by little

 

[feralvr]

Great update on Mario !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :high5: Love good news - we need it every now and then :rofl:

 

[brandy rowe]

No luck today with the rabbit....but we'll try again tomorrow!