DESPERATE To solve UTI Issue in male cat

[louieloui]

Hi, My name is Cindy and I am new to this forum. I stumbled across it while searching feline UTI's.

I have 3 cats with various issues I need to solve but right now the most urgent is a UTI in my little Pixie Bob, Phoenix. 

We named this guy Phoenix Faulks because it signifies a bird rising from ashes. The reason we (I really mean my heart broken daughter) named him this was because a breeder gave him to us to replace our Pixie Bob who died of complications from chronic, misdiagnosed (malpractice) UTI's which resulted in a complete blockage and a collapsed urethra. I did not have the $5000.00 requested to ship him to a State University to have him rebuilt. Needless to say it was one of the most awful things I have ever had to endure. 

With all that said, needless to say, I can't bare to see this happen to Phoenix. Also I feel a need to say that I DO NOT trust vet's, with good reason.

Phoenix is 3 1/2 years old and weighs about 10 pounds. He is little for his breed. 

3 weeks ago while I was in the middle of a dramatic IBS episode with one of my Main Coons I noticed Phoenix licking himself for about the 4th time that evening. Suddenly I remembered that someone had peed on the floor next to a litter pan and it hit me. UGH!  I immediately went for the D-mannose which in case you are not familiar, is a simple sugar that has no glycymic  effect and is non-toxic with no side effects. It binds with e-coli and drags it out of the body in the urine. Most UTI's in humans are e-coli and this stuff works like magic in myself and my daughters so I hoped it would work for him until I could get him to the vet. I dissolved this in water and fed it to him with an eye dropper.

I was flying to CA the next morning to visit my daughter. My younger daughter came home from school the next day and took both cats to the vet. A vet that we hadn't seen before because our vet was not in that day. (same clinic) Sure enough he had some crystals in his urine and elevated white blood cells but no blockage.

He was given an antibiotic shot and sent home with Vetri-Science UT treats. Thats it. I talked to this vet while they were in the exam room together. I explained to him what I had done with the D-mannose and asked him if he had heard of it, he hadn't. (Turns out it is in those treats!) My daughter later told me he rolled his eyes and made faces while he was talking to me. He wanted to start running all kinds of tests on my Main Coon. (Like liver enzymes, etc…)  He had been told to check his records which he didn't. I had to tell him NO and tell him what to do. He is fine now. I run into this kind of  disregard and incompetence with vet's all the time which is why I don't trust them. 

That shot was supposedly a 2 week shot. I had my girl do a intensive D-mannose treatment. 1 t dissolved in water every hour for 4 hours and then put it in his food after that. Wet food only. I got home a week later and switched him to a D-mannose blend, U.T. Vibrance by Vibrant health. This is great stuff and has cranberry, blueberry, Dandelion root, goldenrod etc…I dissolved it, gave it to him and put it in his food. I also continued the UT treats. After 2 weeks I took him to see our usual vet. She did a urinalysis again. Same thing. No improvement which shocked me! I couldn't believe it! She gave him another antibiotic shot, a steroid shot, more treats and put him on Royal Canin SO dry food which surprised me. When I said as much she said maybe I could take a few cans as well. I've given him the dry food 2x in the last week and wet food the rest of the time. I have continued the mannose blend and add water to the wet food. 

I had the idea to check the ph levels in my home water and it was like 7.6 or higher. I tested my cooler water and a bottle of distilled water I had. The distilled water came in at about 6.4. I read that their urine should be 6 to 6.5, there seems to be differing opinions on this. Tonight I noticed him licking himself obsessively again and he hadn't moved much all day. So I took that water and added the U.T. vibrance, gave him that and then just feed him that water with a dropper for awhile. He is now tearing through the house playing with the main coons. I don't know if this is why or if it helped and I have learned that this spurt of energy could mean nothing. 

I don't fully understand all of this but I am trying to figure it out. I think he is still in a chronic state. Apparently the antibiotics are not working. I am beside myself and do not know what else to do. He was not real keen on the SO wet food so I went and bought the Science diet and purina brands version of UT food. He wouldn't touch the SD but after I shoved some some of the purina brand in his mouth he ate all of that. Sometimes you gotta do what cha gotta do. He simply won't eat raw food which I do try to feed and 1 of my main coons eats. 

I have seen other UT threads here and have read through some of them but I still feel like I don't know which way to turn. I just don't know what to do next. So if any of you could offer knowledge and input I would be eternally grateful. 

I need all the help I can get. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to give all the background I could.

Thank you in advance….

 

[fleabags mom]

Hello there Was the shot your cat given convenia? If so, it's my understanding that it's more for skin issues than UTI's. I would ask the vet to see if there is a different antibiotic to try. My cat had a shot of that for a bite, and still developed a UTI immediately after, even tho the antibiotic would've still been in his system I think.

My cat had a UTI - and it took just over a month to stop having the licking etc & two lots of antibiotics. The blood in the urine stopped after about a week of antibiotics (oral) but the yelping while having a pee and the licking took a lot longer. I kept him away from anything dry, including treats, and let him eat as much wet as he wanted because he doesn't drink. He ate a lot and put on a pound - I thought being overweight for a short while would be kinder to him than pain and it took 4 months to go back to normal weight). I also boiled up chicken breast and gave him the lot, water included (I still do that now as a preventative).  I really do not see how dry food can possibly help a cat with a UTI.  The goal is to promote flushing of the bladder and urethra by increasing urine volume, thereby diluting the concentrations of toxins or whatever that may cause the crystals or stones. Mine has a very very occasional dry treat but isn't allowed any more dry food, even tho he wasn't a big fan of it anyway.
 

To be fair, even tho the vet was very rude to roll his eyes at you, there's not a huge amount they can do other than make sure they give you the right antibiotic for the infection (I guess they should know from the urinalysis) and keep an eye on your cat. For my cat it was a flushing out and waiting game.

Best of luck to you and your boy..
 

 

[ritz]

I can't address any of your holistic efforts, though it does seems they aren't work too well. But I do think dry food or treats for a UTI (prescription or otherwise) is contradicated.
Convenia is an antibiotic, long lasting, good for around 14 days. I would try another antibiotics, maybe the kind you give every day. I agree with Fleasbag mom that you need to find the right antibiotic for immediate situations. For long term, wet food is the way to go.

 

[cprcheetah]

If the shot is convenia, I work for a vet and haven't seen it be that effective for bladder infections.  I have had 2 kitties with bladder infections recently, one was treated with simplicef, that didn't take care of it so she got a combo of simplicef and zeniquin.  My other one got clavamox and is now on Orbax as they didn't take care of it entirely either.  I don't feed the prescription diets, my one cat is on a grain free, low carb diet, my other is on prey model raw.  I switched all of my cats over to canned food about 4 years ago (except the one hold out) and have had minimal bladder issues since then.  I know that the one who was on simplicef had a whole bunch of other problems as well which is why she got this UTI.  Have you seen this website?  http://catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth  it has a lot of great information about treating UTI's.  I too am into finding natural ways to treat things but sometimes antibiotics are needed.  I would suggest talking to the vet about a more appropriate antibiotic for a UTI.  Convenia is used for skin infections mostly.

 

[random gemini]

My first cat suffered from chronic UTIs. If I had known then, what I know now, I wonder if he would have suffered so much. 

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure with UTIs. I believe that you will have to treat this one with a run of antibiotics, holistic treatments will not be enough by themselves, though they can support your kitty's system while the antibiotics do their job. Once you get it cleared up, I would bet that you will need to switch foods in order to prevent it from happening again. I would make sure to feed a wet food only, I would also make sure that your wet food is actually grain free and low carb. I read the ingredients on the wet food I was feeding Porter and was surprised to find potatoes and chick peas in the stuff. 

Lastly, if you don't trust your vet, you need to find a new one, one that is willing to listen to your concerns about diet and its impact on your cats' health. My vet does. They're not holistic, but they do agree with me that diet and exercise have as much of an impact on the health of our pets, as they do on us. If I have concerns about a treatment, I ask the questions and we discuss the options. My vet, would NEVER have made faces at my daughter over the phone when discussing treatment for my pets when I was on vacation and none of the doctors at her clinic would have either. In fact, they would have called me before prescribing anything, laid out the facts of the situation, explained why they were choosing this drug over another and I would have trusted that they made the right call. 

There ARE vets out there that get that even though they are not taught about nutrition in their degree programs, their education in caring for animals does not end with only the things they learned in college. 

I can't imagine paying a veterinarian money, if I didn't trust them to prescribe the right treatments for my pets. 

I interview vets... so should you. You are NOT stuck with this one and if you like the vet you usually see, then you need a note made in your chart that you will NOT see this other vet, under any circumstances, and you should complain about his unprofessional behavior. If that won't work, know that you can, and should, find someone else, someone that you trust, that respects YOU. You deserve that much and so do your cats.

 

[carebearbaby1]

My oldest had chronic UTIs for years and my third oldest had one that took over a month to cure. I use Nutri-Vet Uri-Ease paw gel. It acidifies the urine, it helps to clear up the infection with the antibiotics and keeps them clear after. Neither has had a UTI in years. I just put about an inch or so of gel on their front leg once a day and they lick if off. They love the Salmon flavor. One tube will last one cat a couple of months and it's only about $7.

http://www.nutri-vet.com/uri-ease-paw-gel-for-cats/

 

[louieloui]

Thanks so much everyone for your replies and input. 

I am calling this vet to insist we try another antibiotic. And I will be returning that $35.00 bag of dry food she prescribed. It just sees asinine to me that she did that. And I am going to hunt down a different vet. It's such a pain thou, I have been through several...

Gemini, thanks for that. Sometimes we need someone to validate our feelings that we are doubting. I will be moving along from this one. I am not very good at complaint thou, it makes me feel like a jerk but I am going to give it a try this time…

Carebear, I ordered the paw gel. I use their fur ball gel and my cats LOVE that stuff! We call it kitty crack! LOL!

Thanks agin everybody, I will keep you updated.

Please keep the input coming as this is far from resolved.

Thanks

 

[louieloui]

I wanted to add that I have been feeding my cats "Blue Buffalo" and a few other foods that are grain free. Except the one who has IBS, he is on SD WD, which I hate but otherwise he gets really sick. I don't believe in feeding carnivores grain and all that other junk that is in cat food. Phoenix has been on grain free biologically correct food. But I moved recently and it was a major stressful ordeal and as a result I got lazy and have been feeding to much dry food. It was healthy dry food but dry none the less.

As of now he is not liking the UR can foods and I am considering just putting him back on the grain free, high protein Blue can food. It is his favorite and it is healthy. I am going to try slipping raw food in there as well.. Idk… This is maddening… 

Thanks

 

[louieloui]

Thanks for that site link it's great. And all the antibiotic info is real helpful. I don't want to feed Phoenix these UR health foods because they have a bunch of junk in them but some how I feel like I am doing something wrong. I am going to try, again, to switch him over to raw rood. If you have any suggestions for that I'm all ears. He is a stubborn eater. 

Thank you...

 

[louieloui]

That last reply was for you cprcheetah...

 

[cprcheetah]

I recently switched my 7 year old and 14 year old to raw.  They did really well with the transition.  Some days I have to mix in a little canned food but they both eat with gusto now.  My chihuahua used to still have UTI's and crystals even on the vet food, she was on Urinary SO for a while, then I switched her to raw......3 years late no problems.  The 14 year old is my interstitial cystitis kitty so I really hope it helps with that, although canned food only has kept it well under control for about 4 years.

 

[ldg]

OK - either I'm too tired and missing it, or you don't mention it. But was a urine culture done? A urinalysis?

Is there an actual INFECTION? Or were there crystals? If so, what kind?

With the pH that high, I would suspect struvite crystals. Of course, if he's well hydrated and his urine specific gravity is not at all concentrated, they might not be a problem.

If there's an infection, then yes, antibiotics are indicated. But if a urine culture was done, and no infection found, then antibiotics are not the right treatment.

As you are able to monitor his pH at home, you can use the urine acidifier, L-methionine to bring his urine pH down. You do have to closely monitor his pH, because the LAST thing you want to do is over-shoot and bring his pH too low. I use the Solgar brand, 500mg capsules, and when the pH is that high, you can use 500mg up to 3x a day for at least a few days, then twice a day - and then use and monitor as necessary. Sometimes it takes a "maintenance" dose of 1/2 a capsule once or twice a day (or every other day). And remember - you're interested in the pH over time. It peaks and valleys in relation to meal times (assuming they're not free fed???). Peak is usually 3 - 4 hours after a meal.

But raw really is ideal for FLUTD cats - methionine is an amino acid found in meat, and a raw diet naturally targets the ideal pH.

cprcheetah already provided the link to Dr. Pierson's site.


You can also use corn silk tea to help soothe his bladder. And giving fluids at home during flare-ups REALLY helps keep them flushed out. We use them weekly in Spooky to help prevent problems.

Corn silk tea: http://www.holisticat.com/en/acute-conditions/36-feline-lower-urinary-tract-disease.html

 

[louieloui]

LDG,

Yes he has had 2 urinalysis and both showed elevated white blood cells (infection), inflammation and struvite crystals.

He has had two, 2 week antibiotic shots. 

And no I did not check his ph, I checked the ph of the house water which was really high. 

I don't know if I could pull off checking his urine ph because I have 3 cats using the boxes and I hate to isolate him because it cause utter chaos. I guess I could figure it out if I had to. 

 

[ldg]

LDG,
Yes he has had 2 urinalysis and both showed elevated white blood cells (infection), inflammation and struvite crystals.
He has had two, 2 week antibiotic shots. 

And no I did not check his ph, I checked the ph of the house water which was really high. 


I don't know if I could pull off checking his urine ph because I have 3 cats using the boxes and I hate to isolate him because it cause utter chaos. I guess I could figure it out if I had to. 

Actually, the WBC can be from the inflammation. Without a urine culture, you really don't know if there's an infection.

But given the struvite crystals and inflammation, I'd focus on diet (consider raw perhaps), fluids, using the corn silk tea, perhaps slippery elm bark powder made into a gel mixed into his food several times a week ( http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/ ), and consider using something to help manage his stress, as that is likely a culprit here. There are calming collars, Spirit Essences, Bach's Flower Essences, etc. I use Vetri-Science Composure treats for my kitty with idiopathic cystitis.

 

[louieloui]

Thanks LDG, I will check out those botanicals and give it a try. I'm all for the holistic approach. I will get the vetri-science treats, I have read about those and he loves their UT treats. 

I just spoke to his vet and brought her up to date and asked about another antibiotic and a anti-inflammatory. I asked her about using turmeric. She is looking it up and is going to get back to me. LOL! I know it's safe but idk if it will help in this case. She also said that the next step would be to do a culture and using a different antibiotic. I don't know why they wouldn't have cultured it in the first d*!# place!

I started a round of the UT vibrance in ph correct water last night and I think it's helping. I have not seen him licking since and I just caught him coming out of the litter box and saw he left a BIG urine clump. I didn't hear any howling either. So this is promising. 

Yesterday I purchased some raw food by Natures Variety, "Instinct raw bites" to try slipping into his food. It's 95% chicken, turkey and organs but it does have chicken bone in it. It is 5% vegetables. And it is for DOGS and cats. I am aware that this will not due for a main staple but I thought it would be a good place to start. 

I'm just worried about the bones because of their effect on the urine crystals… 

Again, thank you so much...

 

[random gemini]

 
Thanks so much everyone for your replies and input. 

I am calling this vet to insist we try another antibiotic. And I will be returning that $35.00 bag of dry food she prescribed. It just sees asinine to me that she did that. And I am going to hunt down a different vet. It's such a pain thou, I have been through several...

Gemini, thanks for that. Sometimes we need someone to validate our feelings that we are doubting. I will be moving along from this one. I am not very good at complaint thou, it makes me feel like a jerk but I am going to give it a try this time…

Carebear, I ordered the paw gel. I use their fur ball gel and my cats LOVE that stuff! We call it kitty crack! LOL!

Thanks agin everybody, I will keep you updated.

Please keep the input coming as this is far from resolved.

Thanks

It sounds to me like you would do best with a vet that uses holistic treatments in their practice. I am not yet able to post links to the forum, because I'm still new, but the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association website, has a page where you can find a vet that is certified through them. You can try that to see if there is a holistic vet in your area. Something else that I did, was the feed store that I purchase my dogs kibble from, the owner there is very passionate about her pets and very passionate about diet. I asked her for a recommendation for a vet from her, because we don't have a holistic vet in my area. I've been very happy. I interviewed them up front, I took my dogs in for their first appointments and we talked about what I needed as a client to feel comfortable with treatments which, in my case, is just the ability to ask questions without being judged. 

You shouldn't feel like a jerk. The jerk was the vet that made fun of you while you were on the phone, unable to take your cat to the vet yourself. That was completely out of line. 

 

[anavic]

Hello, everyone.

I can really empathize with you all because my youngest, 9.5 years old male kitty (well, in my eyes he's still my baby

)  has had UTIs twice in his life. As in Louieloui's case, I am also desperate to solve UTI issues as he had a bout of UTI last week, he was blocked so I took him to a new vet for a catheterization. He now can pee but pees some drops from time to time. My active kitty eats and acts normally but he still licks his rear a lot after peeing. I remember that last time, in 2006, it took like a month for him to urinate normally...in your cases, has it been like that?

My two female cats (16 years old both of them) have never had urinary issues, they have never been to the vet in their life and are in perfect good health; I think that taking home cats to the vet is very stressful for them, also vets here in my country (Costa Rica) are more knowledgeable in regard to dogs but not to cats and I have heard horror stories so I am not risking their health if they are already very healthy.

The vet recommended me to give my male cat Hill's C/D or Royal Canin S/O forever. A second vet (where I buy the prescription food) also said that my male cat should be feeding on the prescribed food (very expensive in this country btw) forever and ever if "I didn't want him to die of renal problems". He also stated that "my old female cats would probably die of renal failure because all those cats who as mine live so long usually die from kidney failure"...and  also said that I "should start giving them Royal Canin prescribed food ASAP if I wanted to extend their life". I was disheartened to hear that. Weeks before that encounter with this vet, I found the catinfo link (Dr. Lisa Pierson's site) and wanted to start slowly introducing raw food, but after listening to the vet I was very afraid to do that change in their diet.  I then mailed Dr. Pierson and she said that putting cats on low-protein diets does not prevent kidney disease nor halt the progression if the kitty already has renal problems so that reassured me but I am still a bit afraid to do a complete change.
Regular canned food here cost a small fortune: $1.5 each can but I will slowly change this dry food addicts to wet food. Here we mostly can find Friskies wet food and it's not that good (given the ash content) but at least is wet...

What do vets in your countries say about nutrition in UTI cases?

Thanks for listening fellow cat lovers.

 

[nerdrock]

If you are desperate to solve this issue then have a vet perform a urine CULTURE so that you know exactly what type of bacteria are present and an antibiotic can be chosen to for that specific type of bacteria.

I have much more experience with UTIs in cats and dogs than I would like - one dog that had chronic UTIs from the time she was 6 months to 3 years and a cat that blocked 4 times in 4 months and ended up having PU surgery. The last go round was with the dog who had her first UTI after having surgery to remove stones 4 years ago. We started her on Baytril right after doing a urinalysis but still sent her urine off for culture - turns out the Baytril was useless, the bacteria wasn't susceptible to it, so we switched abs and she's fine now.

The cat was much more difficult, we suspect he had a raging UTI for ~5 years that caused a lot of scar tissue to build up in his bladder and urethra. He came in blocked, owners wanted him euthanized, I convinced them to surrender him to me. Unblocked him, little booger removed his catheter himself after a day or so, so recatheterized him. He'd get the all clear, go home, a month later back in. We did exploratory bladder surgery before doing the PU just to make sure there weren't any stones or sludge that weren't showing up, there weren't, so we did the PU. We also sent a sample of his bladder tissue for histology, thankfully just scar tissue. He is on RC urinary so food, mostly dry but canned as well. Sometimes I give him c/d, s/d, or Purina UR as a treat - always VETERINARY urinary food though.

We keep the cat on the veterinary foods, I'm not screwing around with his diet after everything he's been through - he doesn't mind the foods and is a happy boy now. I know I could try to switch him to raw (he gets little scraps while we're cooking like all of our pets do) but I'm not too keen on messing around with his diet. The veterinary foods work to keep the urine pH at a level where stones won't grow and work to dissolve STRUVITE crystals. There are other types of crystals, they'll show up in a urinalysis as well. S/D is the struvite dissolving formula from Hills, C/D is "bladder health", RC Urinary SO will dissolve struvite crystals and promotes bladder health. It can take up to 2 weeks for these foods to dissolve crystals, being on them for a few days won't really do much to be honest - same if the food is constantly being mixed with another type (without an SO index).

Convenia is for skin infections, they will sometimes give it for other problems to extremely fractious cats or cats that cannot be medicated other ways, but it rarely works or needs to be given for a much longer time to see any effects. Have a culture done so they know what they're dealing with, get daily oral antibiotics - you can have them compounded into a liquid that you can mix with wet food. I would also suggest using a veterinary wet food until the urinary issues are done as well. The wet food is what we send home with UTI patients to help dissolve and flush any crystals, the dry food is more for maintenance for those not willing to feed wet.

To be honest, it seems like you're just not happy with conventional veterinary medicine, which is fine, but it seems like you need to find a holistic veterinarian that's thinking would be more in line with your own. Also keep in mind that some over the counter or "home remedies" can cause the antibiotics to not work properly, or alter the urine pH of the animal thus making what the vets are doing seem useless.

When any of my cats are having urinary issues I isolate them for a couple of reasons; 1) it's easier to monitor their litterbox habits if they're the only one using the box. I can see how often they're going and how much they are producing. I can also note any abnormalities such as odour, colour, etc. 2) it's easier to medicate them - I can mix their meds in with their wet food and not have to monitor them to make sure that another cat is eating their food. I can tell exactly how much they ate, if they got all of their medication, and can make sure that they aren't getting any extras. 3) it's a safe, stress free place for them. We isolate them in our bathroom where there's a pet bed right by the heater, another one on the window, 2 litter boxes, a few toys, food/water bowls and free access to running water (I leave the tap dripping for them). They still get one on one time and have a radio in there as well.

It might be worth having an xray done as well if you haven't already, there may be stones or sludge. If you can't medicate him at home, it may be worthwhile to board him at the vet's office and have them give him medication. Not ideal for you because he won't be at home and it will be more expensive, but he'll get all the doses of medication and if anything happens (if he blocks) the vet is right there.