Declawing

[katiemae1277]

the only argument I can give to "my cats are fine" is that your cats appear to be young, give them 5 years or so and then come back and tell us that. while some behavior problems can present themselves immediately, such as avoidance of the litterbox, but arthritis takes yeas to develop.

 

[gloriajh]

Originally Posted by katiemae1277

the only argument I can give to "my cats are fine" is that your cats appear to be young, give them 5 years or so and then come back and tell us that. while some behavior problems can present themselves immediately, such as avoidance of the litterbox, but arthritis takes yeas to develop.

Certainly, Arthritis is a concern, however - my daughter's cat (de-clawed) lived to be 18 years old - he just became "aged" - he didn't suffer with arthritis - possibly diet plays an important role in the overall health of the cat (??) Arthritis is a health issue for both the de-clawed as well as the cat that has his claws.

So, if my cat gets sick, I should blame the de-clawing?

If I'm still posting on this site in ?10+ years, I'll be sure to report any thing I find for the benefit of all.

The banner is about a year old, the black (KiKi is now 3, and the kittens are 15 months.)

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by GloriaJH

my cats are alive and thriving, they have no issues with jumping, walking, biting, etc. they are happy, loving cats - they act just like a cat with claws - this is MY experience - My experience is part of this dialog.

Actually noboby has commented on "your" experience. You were lucky to at least get a surgeon that didn't botch the job and took good care of them afterward. Some of our members have had it done to their cats before they were aware of the horror of it and we don't put them down for doing it - we're just glad that they've become more educated now and wouldn't do it again in the future.

my cats were "rescued" - not buried in some garbage dump somewhere because I couldn't provide a home for them - I didn't go "looking" for a cat, but when was called upon for help, I made the choice to give them a home in the best way I was able.

getting relatives or friends to help with the clipping is not always possible ... and was not the answer for me - perhaps I should have just let them go to the "shelter", that would have been less "selfish" ...

IMO - it would have been less selfish for you to let them go to a shelter and be adopted by someone who would not have de-clawed them, yes. Then while you were at the shelter you could have picked up a couple of poor little ones that had already been declawed in place of the two nail intact kitties you surrendered.

labels such as "selfish", or other name calling expressed as an opinion of some "unknown" person doesn't help the dialog - nor does it alter the opinions - name calling is just another "rabbit trail" that leads to No Where

Nobody said YOU were selfish - it was stated that the reason MOST declaws happen is because the owners were more concerned about their material possessions (furniture, etc.) than their cats which we all consider to be selfish. You chose to take it personally. That does not constitute name-calling.

I'm sure that some of you are

'd so much by my opinion of de-clawing that you can't hear that my cats are doing great physically, and I don't have the terrible behavioral issues that others have reported, - I think that you just can't hear me because you are so caring about the welfare of animals, but I hear you, I hear that my experience is irrelevant because I'm just plain WRONG about everything I've shared.

We do hear you and that you believe your de-clawing experience is very different than most and your animals are perfectly happy and healthy and I do believe you that your cats have no terrible behavioral issues. Another poster summed it up though, wait a couple years - the issues often don't rear their ugly heads until a few years after the de-claw.

I sincerely hope you never have to deal with any of those issues, as there are others who have de-clawed and honestly had no issues with their kitty. I'm so happy they haven't and I hope you don't either. What we are saying is that even if there are no issues ever for your kitties, de-clawing is still inhumane and painful. Your positive experience doesn't change that fact.

I repeat, I am certain you love your cats and felt you weren't hurting them or doing anything wrong when you had them de-clawed. I hope that through this site, reading up on this subject elsewhere, learning what Europe and other civilized countries are banning this procedure, and getting more informed about this procedure that you will come to believe it to be as barbaric as the rest of us anti-de-claw folks.

 

[coaster]

This whole exercise would be unnecessary if declawing was illegal, as it is in many other countries. "Civilized countries" is what I was going to say, but what would that say about the U.S?

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by coaster

This whole exercise would be unnecessary if declawing was illegal, as it is in many other countries. "Civilized countries" is what I was going to say, but what would that say about the U.S?

and Canada too! We aren't savvy enough to ban this either.

 

[urbantigers]

Originally Posted by GloriaJH

I'm sure that some of you are

'd so much by my opinion of de-clawing that you can't hear that my cats are doing great physically, and I don't have the terrible behavioral issues that others have reported, - I think that you just can't hear me because you are so caring about the welfare of animals, but I hear you, I hear that my experience is irrelevant because I'm just plain WRONG about everything I've shared.

Thing is, even if a cat comes through the surgery with the minimum of pain and develops no behavioural problems as a result it's still morally wrong, imo, to amputate a cat's toes solely for the owner's perceived benefit. Scratching and stretching are essential behaviours for a cat, and declawing denies them the opportunity to do both properly. Would anyone amputate a limb or a tail to stop their cat jumping onto counters or knocking drinks over? The claws come with the cat and imo the cat has a right to keep it's claws unless it's medically necessary to remove them.

 

[yam102284]

GloriaJH,
I'm with you. My mom has one cat right now, who's about 7-8 years old and she's declawed. My mom had her declawed around age 1, when she rescued her. She has had no problems whatsoever with biting or scratching - she does the same thing that my cats WITH claws does. She's never had a problem using the litterbox and my mom does not have to buy special litter for her. My mom had 1 cat who lived to be about 17 years old that was also declawed and had no problems at all. My grandparents - the same thing. I'm tired of people saying how selfish it is, how they dont love their cats, or how they'll abandon them at a shelter when they do start having problems. I know for a FACT that my mom would NEVER give up her cat at all. She loves her cat and would not give her up for litterbox problems or biting or scratching.

I HAVE seen all the research on this site, and everywhere else, and it is still my opinion.

 

[gloriajh]

...... my cats were "rescued" - not buried in some garbage dump somewhere because I couldn't provide a home for them - I didn't go "looking" for a cat, but when was called upon for help, I made the choice to give them a home in the best way I was able.

getting relatives or friends to help with the clipping is not always possible ... and was not the answer for me - perhaps I should have just let them go to the "shelter", that would have been less "selfish" ...

Yosemite Quote:
IMO - it would have been less selfish for you to let them go to a shelter and be adopted by someone who would not have de-clawed them, yes. Then while you were at the shelter you could have picked up a couple of poor little ones that had already been declawed in place of the two nail intact kitties you surrendered.

IF I would have been looking to adopt, an exchange might have been a solution, but the shelters here kill within 7 days - I don't believe I had an option.

How do we undo the past? I don't believe de-clawing is worse than death.

If I misunderstood some of the posts, as being directed at my comments, and a few seemed they were, I apologize for my misunderstanding.

 

[urbantigers]

You know, I really want to try to understand why people support declawing even when they know what it entails. It's hard to overcome my natural revulsion for the procedure and I don't mean to insult anyone. It's something I had no idea existed until about a year ago, so I guess I'm still in my "OMG, they do that to cats?" phase. Can I ask those who have declawed cats what their reasons were at the time and whether they declawed in anticipation of scratching problems or because of existing scratching problems? I'm genuinely trying to understand.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by yam102284

GloriaJH,
I'm with you. My mom has one cat right now, who's about 7-8 years old and she's declawed. My mom had her declawed around age 1, when she rescued her. She has had no problems whatsoever with biting or scratching - she does the same thing that my cats WITH claws does. She's never had a problem using the litterbox and my mom does not have to buy special litter for her. My mom had 1 cat who lived to be about 17 years old that was also declawed and had no problems at all. My grandparents - the same thing. I'm tired of people saying how selfish it is, how they dont love their cats, or how they'll abandon them at a shelter when they do start having problems. I know for a FACT that my mom would NEVER give up her cat at all. She loves her cat and would not give her up for litterbox problems or biting or scratching.

I HAVE seen all the research on this site, and everywhere else, and it is still my opinion.

And why was her cat de-clawed? Was it anything to do with the cat scratching things or is this just something your mom would automatically do? Just curious.

Whether a cat has problems or not after a de-claw, can you honestly say you believe de-clawing is an OK thing to do to an animal? If you accidentally scratched someone with your fingernail should they have the right to cut YOUR fingers off at the first joint so you don't have those nails anymore?

Or if you accidentally ran into and kicked someone and scratched them with your toenail, should they be able to cut off your toes? Hmmm wonder how easy it would be for you to walk then. Or how easy it would be to use your severed fingers.

Anyone who says that cutting off human fingers and toes is not the same thing is really living in a fantasy world IMO.

 

[siggav]

There's a thread in another subforum on the site where the discussion is about a declawed dog.

Pretty much everyone is horrified at the idea of a declawed dog. Everyone should be just as much horrified at the idea of a declawed cat.

..or for example say it were easy to have a prodecure to pull all the teeth out of a dog. Biting problems would go way down. Everyone would be right at 6 months the teeth come out! Less danger of being bit by a dog. Landlords wouldn't allow teethed dogs and everyone were going my dog is fine, you just feed them soft foods, they don't miss their teeth!

Doesn't it sound a little bit wrong? To a lot of people declawing a cat sounds exactly the same. People who have grown numb to the horror of the idea of it because it's so suffused in the culture don't notice it but anyone coming from the outside gets an emotional that's wrong! reaction.

I didn't know "cat part toe amputating prodecures" aka declawing existed until around 2 years ago (I'm 27 and have loved cats all my life). I just don't see the point of it. There is absolutely no need to declaw a cat and people who are unhealthy enough to not be able to cope with cat scratches shouldn't have a cat in the first place. Just like big dogs shouldn't be kept in tiny flats by people who are away all day at work.

To people with happy declawed cats. You're lucky that your cat is coping well with their mutilation that was done for your benefit and I sincerely hope your cats won't suffer the long term side effects that can occur. Also bear in mind though that cats are very good at hiding pain so any slight hint of them not using their legs normally should be taken seriously.

NB: I'm not against people who are caring for cats that came to them already declawed or who didn't know what the prodecure actually is when it was done. Already declawed cats need homes too and the other is a simple case of not knowing any better at the time.

 

[luvmy2cats]

Wow, everybody is fiesty. One question, what about concerns of cats scratching young children or babies? Is that were soft paws would come into play?

 

[gloriajh]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

And why was her cat de-clawed? Was it anything to do with the cat scratching things or is this just something your mom would automatically do? Just curious.

Whether a cat has problems or not after a de-claw, can you honestly say you believe de-clawing is an OK thing to do to an animal? If you accidentally scratched someone with your fingernail should they have the right to cut YOUR fingers off at the first joint so you don't have those nails anymore?

Or if you accidentally ran into and kicked someone and scratched them with your toenail, should they be able to cut off your toes? Hmmm wonder how easy it would be for you to walk then. Or how easy it would be to use your severed fingers.

Anyone who says that cutting off human fingers and toes is not the same thing is really living in a fantasy world IMO.

WOW! The tone in your post seems really harsh, IMhO.

The idea that the cat is fine, and the other "positive" examples, was completely disregarded by the first sentence in your post.

What I get from the way your comments are stated is that you are "mad" - and, you probably are - but, why speak so harshly to this "young cat's" post ???

I'm trying NOT to add fuel to the "fire" here, really! Just trying to "dial" it down a little.

I know you'll agree that peaceful dialog helps the communication be more effective.

Again, sorry if I mis-understood your words.

This website is an "education" tool, and and your contributions are valuable.
Gloria

 

[ping]

Originally Posted by luvmycat1

Wow, everybody is fiesty. One question, what about concerns of cats scratching young children or babies? Is that were soft paws would come into play?

I get scratched by Ping way way more then the kids ever do. Actually I can only think of once or twice that he has done that. I get it from playing with him. Clipping the claws though would be a better option if that was a worry. Or soft paws for that matter.

 

[siggav]

Originally Posted by luvmycat1

Wow, everybody is fiesty. One question, what about concerns of cats scratching young children or babies? Is that were soft paws would come into play?

Heh.. I do feel very strongly about the issue, I've been trying to stay civil though.

Anyway clipping the claws really helps with getting scratched they can still hurt of course but are much less likely to break the skin. Then the next thing is to first of all not leave babies around cats unattended and then to teach them to behave around cats and treat the cats with respect. Then finally a few scratches might happen but usually that's more the child's fault than the cats.

As a kid I got scratched by cats sometimes when they got overenthusiastic playing. It was never seen as a big deal, my parents didn't mind, I didn't mind. I do get scratched a sometimes by Nikita now and I still don't mind. I'm getting some scars but that's mostly my fault for being lazy and not clipping her claws often enough (also I think they're gorgeous when long). Which is easy for me to do though because I've made sure to get her used to me handling her paws ever since she was a kitten.

There really is a huge difference when the claws are clipped, they can be razors otherwise which barely need to touch you to open up a scratch.

The worst cat scratch I got as a child was from the cat of a friend of mine, I got scratched in the face near the eye but it happened because I thought the cat would enjoy what I enjoyed - being thrown high up into the air and then safely caught. I threw the cat up into the air, she panicked and put her claws out and they ripped into my cheek when she came back down.

Who's fault was that though? It was a valuable lesson for me and wouldn't have happened if I'd have been taught a bit more about animals in the first place.

 

[danimarie]

I think certain individuals in this thread are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

It's no secret anywhere on this site or in these forums exactly what the general opinion on declawing is.

Bringing this topic up is egging on an argument.

 

[littleraven7726]

My cats are "ok" but I wouldn't say they are happy with being declawed.

I'm sure if asked, they would like their toes back.

Stimpy's declaw is one I consider worse than Raven & Nabu's. His toes were done very short. So he can't manipulate toys and other objects like Raven & Nabu can (they have longer "fingers" for lack of a better term). I feel bad for him, because he gets frustrated while playing. I found out while I worked at the shelter a few years ago, that they actually have a "new" form of declaw where they take more of the toe than in others because it reduces chances of regrowth. Consequently Stimpy has shorter "fingers" and cannot manipulate objects well.

I'm a big advocate of: if you want a declawed cat--adopt an adult who's already done. There are plenty who need homes and don't have issues that would make them hard to adopt. Most of the problems I have seen have been age (arthritis) and litter texture related. The bigger problem has been people's perceptions of why declawed cats are in a shelter/rescue.

I wish they would ban it in this country. Then landlords couldn't require it. (they could require softpaws, etc instead)

 

[ddcats]

Most know declawing is selfish, cruel, disgusting and inhumane.

They have a perfect right to be 'fired up'.

Who is going to speak for those cats who cannot speak for themselves?

It's just a waste of time to explain something so cruel as declawing on deaf ears.

If one knows about the disgusting and inhumane act of declawing and does it anyway my prayers are with them.

 

[littleraven7726]

Originally Posted by ddcats

Most know declawing is selfish, cruel, disgusting and inhumane.

They have a perfect right to be 'fired up'.

Who is going to speak for those cats who cannot speak for themselves?

It's just a waste of time to explain something so cruel as declawing on deaf ears.

If one knows about the disgusting and inhumane act of declawing and does it anyway my prayers are with them.

I agree. I'm getting myself all worked up and I think it's falling on deaf ears. There's just no reason to mutilate more cats.

 

[yosemite]

I think we've said all that needs to be said on de-clawing. There are those of us who think it is inhumane and cruel and there is the other side that may never change their minds and think it is perfectly OK to de-claw.

Any de-clawing thread is bound to get heated around here as we believe it to be very barbaric and unfair to the cat. We can only hope that we can educate enough people that the laws will be changed to reflect those of most other parts of the world that have seen this for what it is - abuse.

I am now going to close this thread - we've all had our say and it appears we all agree to disagree.