Declawing & behavior changes... let's dig deep!

[wellingtoncats]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

^That and mob behavior is disturbing..

Some people are actually interested in learning about animal behaviors - instead of human behavior.

Maybe the person wants it for future reference elsewhere? Asking to see studies was a legitimate question that doesn't cause anyone any harm. Some people prefer proof to opinions.

I'm just sorry that there hasn't really been any unbias studies - it's hard to find them for a lot of things, actually, since everyone has an agenda.

Yeah I guess so. But I think reading about something that is illegal, is sick and twisted. It's illegal for a reason.

I wouldn't want to watch a Declaw video or a step by step, but that's me.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by WellingtonCats

Yeah I guess so. But I think reading about something that is illegal, is sick and twisted. It's illegal for a reason.

I wouldn't want to watch a Declaw video or a step by step, but that's me.

I won't watch the vid, either. As for reading about illegal things... you watch and read the news don't you?

Sure it should be banned here - for what it does do to a cat.
Wanting to see studies to know if a group is spreading bias info isn't wrong. I'm going to guess that the OP keeps seeing it brought up in post after post and simply wants to know if there really is any truth to the claims about the behaviors or if it's all hearsay. The curse of curiosity and all.

 

[wellingtoncats]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

I won't watch the vid, either. As for reading about illegal things... you watch and read the news don't you?

Sure it should be banned here - for what it does do to a cat.
Wanting to see studies to know if a group is spreading bias info isn't wrong. I'm going to guess that the OP keeps seeing it brought up in post after post and simply wants to know if there really is any truth to the claims about the behaviors or if it's all hearsay. The curse of curiosity and all.

Yup I do watch and read the news but often in the news it doesn't play out every gory detail. Anyway, I don't want to argue at all.

 

[icklemiss21]

I think what the OP wanted was stats to see the real problems that occur from declawing

Comments like "Almost all of our hotline calls are declawed cats with litter box issues" or stats like 95% of cats who are declawed have litterbox issues when someone has had declawed cats and / or knows declawed cats with no issues or or been involved with a shelter proves to that person that it is just an agenda. I wouldnt believe those either.

This is old (2001) and because the AVMA requires a password I cant link but they found problems in 18% of declawed cats (biting or litterbox) compared to 15% of clawed cats. This is raised to 25% on some websites that quote the research but the original research says 25% were brought in with housesoiling symptoms, and brought down to 18% after treatment for urinary infections & crystals.

There is some new research just out that I also cant find on the web but most scientific studies come down to its inhumane, its wrong but the % of biters / soilers are not much higher than clawed cats (the phantom pain and arthritis is true) and questions the 'not seen' percentage of clawed cats. As in more declawed cats with issues are surrendered shelters because they arent just thrown out on the streets etc so they appear in regular shelters who keep stats rather than Animal Control where the cat may not last long enough to see an issue.

Problem with most of the studies are that despite there being millions of declawed cats in North America, the studies are too small to be representative. Most of them are less than 50 cats.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

adopted so you only see the ones sitting there that have issues and that many people who have declawed cats will not mention it due to the reaction they get from people

my thoughts are the same

Originally Posted by WellingtonCats

Ok why do you need studies to prove that declawing has adverse effects on the cat post-procedure?

Declawing is ILLEGAL in my country, as with many other countries.

Rape is illegal in all western countries - but we don't need a study to show us that it has effects on a person after it has occured. It's just plain, wrong. Like declawing, IMO.

Note this list of countries:

http://www.declawing.com/list.html

I believe that the only reason EVER for declawing is if the cat's claws have been previously injured and it is unavoidable that a claw gets removed. In the same circumstance as a human that needed to have a finger removed.

To me all the proof that is needed is that it is deemed as illegal in these fast-thinking, fast-acting countries.

Agree wholeheartedly. How I loathe that the country I live in has not banned declawing of cats.

People say "that's just what you did when you had cats" but I never even heard of it, until I was an adult, though I grew up with cats.

It makes me sick. I cannot think of it without taking it personally. By taking it personally I mean looking at my own cherished cats, and imagining having something so brutal done to them.

It disgusts me. And I have lost friends over the issue.

 

[mtbee]

I am against declawing. We had a Sissy cat growing up that my Grandma declawed because she was tearing up the furniture. After declawing Sissy was never the same. In the beginning her paws were so sore, when they healed she literally had to learn how to walk... All the other cats knew she had no nails and would pick on her. She was so unhappy/depressed....

But, I think claws or no claws if a cat is going to have behaviorial issues they are just going to have it.

 

[stormyskiez]

My Almond, Joy, Rusty, Streek and Tinker bell were all declawed on the front paws when they were kittens 13 to 14 years ago. Never once did they have issues after the healing. All of them very loving cats. I had the issues caring for them after the surgery. I felt horrible. I cried.

 

[addiebee]

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

You would be surprised what people have given up cats for and they are honestly cats with no agression or other issues.
I spent one Christmas between anger and tears after working Christmas Eve at the shelter where a woman came in with 4 beautiful cats, all orange tabby (some with white) who wanted to surrender them because she was getting her kids new kittens for Christmas. All of them were under 18 months old and adorable, all spayed / neutered except the youngest who was 4 months (vets prefer to do them at 5-6 months here)

The children were sitting in the snow outside crying their hearts out saying they didnt want kittens for Christmas and loved their big kittens and that they never wanted another Christmas present again. They held onto those carriers so hard, the love they felt for those cats was not faked.

How that woman could do that to her kids or the cats I will never know but it showed me that people will give up cats for absolutely no reason.

We had a beautiful black longhair physically thrown at us at the reception desk one day because 'he is a pain in the

' the guy took wanted to keep the carrier because its worth money. That cat went to one of our local pet stores who showcase the cats for us and the staff fell in love and he is now a store cat. He doesnt open the bags of food, he greets everyone with purrs and cuddles - perfect cat.

I would say very few of them are excuses on the cats we get into the shelter, other than them being excuses for the sorry state of humanity on the people involved. The few declawed cats we have taken in with issues, the owners have been very honest about as they said that the cat would be best without children in the home etc (always a red flag for us to ask more questions, declawed or not)

That story about the woman, the cats and the crying children- that woman should have been ashamed of herself!

She wasn't getting kittens for the kids--- she was doing it for HERSELF. I bet you anything SHE wanted cute fluffy lil babies!!! Grrrrrrr!!!!!! Sometimes I really hate people!

 

[abbycats]

I adopted a shelter cat last Christmas eve who was declawed by her previous owners. I don't know why she was surrendered to the humane society, I fell in love with her picture on petfinder, and her time was running out at the shelter. We renamed her Felix and she has no behavioral problems. She has fit in perfectly with all my other cats,and has a wonderful personality. If she would have had behavioral problems she would still be here with us and we would love her just the same.

I don't believe in declawing and would never do this to any of my cats.

 

[icklemiss21]

Originally Posted by AddieBee

That story about the woman, the cats and the crying children- that woman should have been ashamed of herself!

She wasn't getting kittens for the kids--- she was doing it for HERSELF. I bet you anything SHE wanted cute fluffy lil babies!!! Grrrrrrr!!!!!! Sometimes I really hate people!

Yep, every time I have a hard day at the shelter turning down people who are not suitable, I think of that woman and that these people will not be turning cats in to shelters for no reason.

It has been close to two years now since she came in and I still can see each of those kids faces, tears streaming down their faces begging not to have Christmas presents and keep their pets who they obviously loved.

 

[gloriajh]

To the people turning in cats for no reason - those people don't deserve that cat - and hopefully the cats were rehomed to people more deserving.

Too bad there isn't some way to prevent them from getting more cats to give away.

 

[bunnelina]

I am entirely against declawing even though I broke down and did it to two adult cats more than a dozen years ago. There were no side effects beyond a few days of post-op pain, and no behavior problems. But I still think it was a rotten thing to do. Our vet recommended it because we were at our wits' end with them destroying furniture and not using a scratching post. Afterward, they ran around and "scratched" just like before. Great, huh? No.

I continued to feel guilty. I took a huge risk with those cats and I shouldn't have dared. I didn't expect this guilt, and it changed how I related to them for their lifetimes.

Now we use Soft Paws, in decorator colors, even for our kittens. They work great, the cats don't care, and we have peace of mind and decent furniture.

IF everyone on this site hasn't managed to persuade you and you're still considering it, keep this in mind: you need to make a huge promise to your cat in exchange for what you're taking from them. I promised mine that they would never be subjected to any stressful situations beyond trips to the vet. This means we didn't travel with them or put them in any situations where they might possibly feel threatened. We were very careful with visitors, too. And we only went to an all-cat vet so they wouldn't encounter any dogs.

Just don't do it. There are easy alternatives.

 

[addiebee]

It is true that frogmanjared was looking for research, but I am sure the mods will state this, too. The Cat Site's official position is anti-declaw.

 

[catkiki]

When we moved to this apartment, our next door neighbor had a beautiful, black long haired boy. We were talking one day about our cats and I mentioned that I would never do that to my girls. She told me that when she had her boy neutered, she was considering having it done, but wanted to do a bit of research on it first. Needless to say, when she moved away in September, her boy had all his claws! She was shocked at what it done to the cat during a declaw.

I really miss her and her boy, Shadow.

 

[icklemiss21]

Originally Posted by AddieBee

It is true that frogmanjared was looking for research, but I am sure the mods will state this, too. The Cat Site's official position is anti-declaw.

Yes, but as I said earlier, true and realistic statistics - rather than 95% become biters (which I am sure no one believes) - will help people in their arguments against declawing. Otherwise it really does sound like we are making up stats to prove our point, people wont believe it and go do their own thing thinking we are all crazy and dont know what we are talking about.

 

[gloriajh]

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

Yes, but as I said earlier, true and realistic statistics - rather than 95% become biters (which I am sure no one believes) - will help people in their arguments against declawing. Otherwise it really does sound like we are making up stats to prove our point, people wont believe it and go do their own thing thinking we are all crazy and dont know what we are talking about.

How true.
From my personal experience of having declawed cats - 100% of them are NOT biters.

A little further in my experience with 1 stray

(of the 4 with claws, that we care for - and the only one that I can get near enough to pet - the others are semi-feral),

who is very loving, wants my attention - and has all his claws - does bite on occasion (I haven't nailed down why, yet - but, he IS a biter, and DOES have his claws. He's nailed (nipped) me on two occasions, both times he was wanting something ??? it seemed, and nipped at my leg.

So, I could say that 25% of the cats we have - that have their claws - do bite on occasion. Stats are funny that way.

 

[atinaaquitane]

I'm sure some of you experts are aware that declawing involves amputating the fingers to lets say: [the first joint at the tip of your fingers]. This means amputation. And removing the genitals is just a inhumane in my view.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by AtinaAquitane

I'm sure some of you experts are aware that declawing involves amputating the fingers to lets say: [the first joint at the tip of your fingers]. This means amputation. And removing the genitals is just a inhumane in my view.

Neuter and spay does not remove the genitals. It removes the internal sex organs. And there are many, many health benefits to the cat for these procedures. (not to mention benefit to society and all the cats that won't be born and unwanted, dumped, tortured, etc)

You are correct that standard declaw is amputation, and serves no benefit to the cat. (or to society

)

 

[icklemiss21]

Females who are not spayed are at greater risk for mammary gland tumours, ovarian and uterine cancer as well as possibly getting pyometria. Then the psychological trauma of false pregnancies

Males not neutered are proven to have a tendency towards territorial aggression issues and an increased risk from prostate enlargement, tumours or infection and hernias.

Then of course the fact that their who knows how many litters adding to the overpopulation

 

[Willowy]

I know people always like to throw spay/neuter into de-clawing discussions. But to me, there's no link at all and I don't know why anybody thinks there is. In short, millions of cats and kittens are killed every year because there aren't enough homes. And that's just the cats in shelters in the U.S. that keep stats, there are millions MORE being killed by being shot, drowned, poisoned, etc. because there AREN'T ENOUGH HOMES FOR ALL OF THEM.

Obviously, the ONLY alternative to spay/neuter is killing the offspring for whom homes cannot be found. Which is more humane?