Declawing: against or for?

[jen]

Declawing and spay/neutering can not even be compared because spaying/neutering is for the sake of their health. Females suffer from a horrible disease called Pyometra which the only cure is an emergency spay which will cost a fortune. The also get ovarian and mammary cancer. Males can get testicular and prostate cancer. By fixing them you cut that risk more then in half. Did you know that? There is no disease or cancer that is going to happen from leaving your cats with their claws. Disease and cancer is the huge difference which makes the two not even comparable. It is not a human convenience (well not entirely) but a huge health risk to leave your cats intact.

Now do you see why the two are not even close to being comparable?

I mean, cats are also fixed to control the pet population but I think health risks are an even bigger reason to do it.

And if you are yelling at your cat to the point where you are so annoyed at her and want to send the cat to the shelter then you didn't try any of the things to stop control this behavior. Soft Claws, Feliway, trimming nails, training. Soft Claws itself will stop the cat from destroying your furniture so there really is no reason at all to be mad at your cat for scratching when there is a simple thing you can do to stop it.

Pros of declawing: cat won't scratch you or furniture
Con of declawing: litterbox issues, no defense, not able to properly exercise and stretch muscles

Pros of spay/neutering: Greatly reduces chance of Mammary/ovarian/testicular/prostate cancers, no chance of developing Pyometra, not reproducing and leading to more animals unwanted in shelters, the cats are all around healthier. Males don't fight as much and won't spread FIV and FeLV.
Con of spaying/neutering: Cannot think of one??

So I ask, how is being for spay/neutering and against declawing in any way hypocritical. I don't know about you, but I don't want my cat to get cancer and Pyometra.

Plus did you read the surgery step by step from teh point of view of the vet tech in the declawing of poor Fluffy? How could anyone willingly put their cat through that horrible amount of pain??

 

[zissou'smom]

If you are going to yell at your cat all the time and dump it at the shelter for scratching your furniture, then you should not have a cat. You are entitled to your opinion too of course, but please do some more research on it. Spaying and neutering not only reduces the overpopulation of pets (and all it takes is one time slipping out for a pregnancy) but also has clear and proven health benefits to the cat. Such as, absolutely no chance for life-threatening infections of the uterus, no chance of having ovarian/testicular/uterine cancers, and a very reduced chance of having mammary cancer. Also, the urge to mate causes many cats who would otherwise be happy indoors to get outside any way they can, increasing chances for infectious diseases exponentially, even if you are letting them outside usually they will not roam that far, whereas a tomcat will roam all night looking for a mate. The intense desire to mate that is entirely hormonally driven also puts a lot of stress on female cats, as heat cycles can be very damaging to their body. So spaying and neutering has very clear health advantages for a cat, and if I could have explained all this to my cat and asked her if she wanted to be spayed, I have no doubt that she would have said yes. However, declawing is a totally unnesecary surgery with absolutely no benefits whatsoever to the cat, which is done only so the owner does not have to train the cat or trim the nails or use soft claws or anything but drop their darling off to have its toes amputated. Whereas spaying/neutering prevents both behavioral and physical problems, declawing does not prevent and may cause both kinds of problems.

As for domesticating animals, in most cases the relationship is selfish for neither party. When cats began being domesticated, they were kept for rodent control and possibly companionship, and in return they got shelter from sandstorms, a source of food and water, etc. It was, and continues to be, a symbiotic relationship. I don't know if you've been hearing that line from PeTA about how it's wrong to have pets, but don't believe it. Notice that their solution is to let them die out, even killing them, not allowing them to return to a wild state.

Cats do deserve a safe and healthy home, for life. That does not include voluntary declaws.

Also, cats that have been declawed are more likely to end up at the shelter than those that have not. Whether this reflects on the owner's attitudes in general about cats or the cats new behavioral problems as a result of the declaw is debatable, however, of cats surrendered to the shelter for behavioral problems (inappropriate potty habits, aggression, etc) declawed cats are more likely than wholly-footed cats.

 

[gingersmom]

Hi Al,

Thanks for being brave enough to offer an unpopular but honest opinion!

To others - your message comes through loudly and clearly. I do have to say that once everyone starts repeating themselves to death, in this or in any other thread, the message gets a bit lost in redundancy.

I think you need to be very careful that the people you are aiming your message at don't start to tune you out as a result, because what you have to say is VERY important, and we all know that you are only putting all kitties' best interests at heart!

I also have to say that I'm a member of a few different forums, not just cat forums, and I really, really appreciate the fact that for the most part, everyone here is extremely considerate, mature, and respectful of other people's differences of opinion! Thank you for that!!

 

[rumberg]

I'm sorry let me clarify my cat Wiggins still has his claws and i have not had any issues with him scratching at the furniture he has his cat tree and thats were he sticks to. But the leather couch takes a beating from time to time from him slipping off and trying to grip to things "not his fault" and i do not yell at him or would not send him to a shelter i was just generalizing based on the number of cats that are stuck in shelters. And i also have to say that yes i do understand that there are health benefits to fixing your animal but i do not agree that if you had the ability to converse with your cat i highly doubt they would say yes please fix me. I mean we as humans have the same threat of getting cancer in the ovaries and testicles and many other sickness with our reproductive systems. Now i ask you... would it be alright to fix you and your childern to elimante these concerns? I for one want to stay intact and i am sure my animal would want to stay intact if he had the choice. I can see that as an argument but i think it is just a matter of convience to say it is health issues. Also if you have it i would like to see some statistics that show that declawed cats have more of a litter problem the cats with there claws because what i read here there are a lot of cats that are having litter problems and so far not one has said anything about it being declawed.

Thank you for your reply and i dont mean for any hardships

 

[jen]

Hey now hardships, it is just a sensitive subject that's all. Sorry if I was a little rude or anything in my post. Of course most cats wouldn't want you to fix them. But on the other hand, I just think of my uncles poor barn cat named Grandma. She lived to about 17 years old and had so many litters you could tell this poor girl was exausted and would probably have loved to be spayed so the males would leave her worn out little body alone and she would not have to go through the stress of bringing up another litter. I cannot even begin to think about how many cats she produced inher 17 years. I asked my uncle over and over to let me take her to be spayed, but he refused. He may have gotten 5 more years out of her if she was safe indoors spayed and free of disease. I am even suprised she lived as long as she did. So to keep other cats from having to go through that, I think people should definately spay there cats for that and many other reasons.

I just mainly wanted to point out that cats may not want to be spayed if it were up to them, but they don't know better. You cannot control their breeding all the time. They also cannot control their breeding. They are not people where you can just sit down and have a talk or something. You think there are crazy amounts of roaming, unwanted cats in the world today? Just think what it would be like if spaying and neutering didn't exist at all.

You cannot really compare fixing a cat to declawing one. One prevents disease and the other doesn't. One controls the pet population one doesnt. One can cause behavior and litterbox issues and the other cannot.

I mean they are just so different, you know?

 

[rumberg]

I completely agree, every animal i have ever owned has been spayed or nuetered and i think it is important to do so. But i would still say both are unnecssary procedures. My SO's family ownes a farm and they fix the female cats but dont bother fixing the males.

 

[booktigger]

I personally think the 14 year old I took on last year would have asked to be spayed, but sadly she already had mammary cancer plus other health issues (purely due to not seeing the vet in time) by the time I got her that meant we couldn't treat it (she is the reason I will push for spaying. it was a promise I made when I found out, so that others might not have to go through the same thing - if she had been done, there is a chance she would have had a longer life, and also might not have been unhandleable at the end of her life). And cats aren't maternal like humans - although I do think some humans should be neutered too. The other flaw with your argument is the keeping them for the whole of their life - this sadly doesn't happen with all cats, as any rescue will tell you - the above cat came to me as her owner had died, but as declawed cats are likely to get other behavioural issues, they may still end up looking for another home (and they are the lucky ones).

 

[urbantigers]

A cat wouldn't wish to be neutered or to be entire - that's projecting human reasoning onto them. They are driven by the hormonal urge to mate and reporoduce and nothing more. Neutered animals aren't conscious of their lack of offspring (or testicles!) in the way that humans are. I think it's cruel to keep a cat entire then to prevent it from acting on the urge to mate. But allowing cats to mate and reproduce at will is, obviously, not possible.

Declawing, unlike neutering, offers no benefit whatsoever to the cat. It is purely a selfish act by the owner for their own benefit.

Gingersmom - with respect, I disagree that by repeating something the message gets lost. By repeating it, it goes to show that opposition to declawing isn't the isolated opinion of a few people but the opinion of many. And also something that a lot of people feel very strongly about. I would hope that in itself would make anyone considering the procedure think again. Some, of course, will never change their minds. And Rumberg - again I ask this with respect - if it's not a black and white issue, why is it illegal in so many countries? For me it is very much a black and white issue.

 

[rumberg]

Just with humans regular check ups can prevent and catch these problems. i am sorry to hear about your cat and it is sad that it was not caught earlier. I agree with you that by saying, "if the cat is declawed you have to keep it the rest of your life" and that would only occur in a perfect world and yes maybe my argument is flawed in that aspect or not well enough expalined. If you are a responsible pet owner (i assume that people who visit this site and post to this site are truly decent people and truly care for their animals, but you know what they say about assuming.....) you can make arrangments in your will if you are to pass that, your pet will be put into the custody of such and such a person. Thus keeping them out of shelters (of course with the agreement of the person to take custody of your pet). Basically what i was trying to say is by declawing the animal you have better be thinking about the future and not just the present because you have now made that cat totally dependable on you. For those people that cannot commit to this then yes declawing should not occur. But if they can commit then there is no reason to not declaw. And i do realize how many people probably thought they could make this commitment with their pets and how many of these pets end up in shelters. But the people that are part of this forum i believe are differnt they are obvioulsy here for advice and to give advice if they can, and i have no problems with passing on my opinion of declawing to these people because i dont believe they will just abandon their pets.

 

[kittylova]

not to be rude, but would you like to have your unneutered and spraying in your house? And not to have a long happy life? He will have so many health
problems and go out looking for girls. Just think, How many kittens wills
be born from your cat.....millons. Do you care about your cat or your couch?
a good cat owner will love there cat or cats. And dont care if there couch
gets all ruined. so do you care for your cat or your couch?
Not to be rude.

Kittylova



Mom of two goof balls

 

[consumerkitty]

IMO, a major difference between spay/neuter and declawing is:

Declawing keeps furniture from being destroyed.

Spay/Neuter keeps cats from being destroyed.

Millions of cats are killed in "shelters" every year because of overpopulation.

 

[gingersmom]

Originally Posted by urbantigers

Gingersmom - with respect, I disagree that by repeating something the message gets lost. By repeating it, it goes to show that opposition to declawing isn't the isolated opinion of a few people but the opinion of many. And also something that a lot of people feel very strongly about. I would hope that in itself would make anyone considering the procedure think again.

I don't necessarily disagree with you.

My concern is that the repetition simply becomes "blah, blah, blah" to those whose minds aren't necessarily open enough to consider all options thoroughly, and therefore the message doesn't get through. Closed minds only further bar the door to new ideas.

I'm NOT saying that anyone here should withdraw from their positions, and it is entirely obvious that it is an issue that people feel very strongly about. I just think that for the most part, people here are preaching to the choir.

This started as a poll and has become a repetitive lecture because a few people have been brave enough to offer a differing opinion, whereas there are already lots and lots of threads where this information is generously provided.

I'm sorry if the original poster expected a 100% response to the negative, and I'm also sorry that people here feel the need to continually assert their opinion - valid or not - onto other people simply because there is dissention.

Granted, the welfare of animals is at stake here, and I very much appreciate the DEEP level of caring that most folks here have for not just their own animals, but for all animals. However, whether you like it or not, you have to allow that there will be differing opinions.

 

[urbantigers]

Originally Posted by GingersMom

My concern is that the repetition simply becomes "blah, blah, blah" to those whose minds aren't necessarily open enough to consider all options thoroughly

It probably doesn't make any difference to closed minds whether it's said once or 100 times.

Originally Posted by GingersMom

This started as a poll and has become a repetitive lecture because a few people have been brave enough to offer a differing opinion

That's the crux of the issue - for many of us it can never be about differing opinions. It's just wrong, period. And when you see/hear of people doing something you consider totally wrong it's very hard to turn away and ignore it, or consider that they are entitled to do that "wrong" thing. To me declawing is on a par with child abuse. But you're right, and I am going to bow out of this discussion now as there isn't anything more to say and I'm not going to let myself get wound up over it anymore. I also agree that it's pointless for this to turn into another slanging match about declawing - nothing is achieved when people end up just hurling insults at each other! And it doesn't promote good feeling on the forum.

 

[zissou'smom]

I think the reason that people get repetitive, although I haven't really noticed it to the amount you are asserting, is that most of us really want to believe that people who are fully educated about declawing would realize that it is mutilation and completely unnecessary. I think it may be kind of shocking to find that this isn't the case. Although, the people who say they are for declawing have wholly-footed cats, so I'm not so sure that isn't the case.
The idea that people should only declaw a cat if they are willing to have it for its lifetime through any possible disaster. This point is kind of moot when you consider that nobody should have a cat at all unless they are willing to have it for its entire lifetime. There is no reason to declaw a cat, and nobody has yet offered a single one. There have, however, been a few points made about why it isn't that wrong or why we shouldn't say it's just totally wrong. If there is no good reason, I don't understand what the dissention is about at all. It doesn't benefit the cat, it doesn't actually benefit the owner in the long-term, so why is this even an issue?

 

[rumberg]

When i was growing up i was scolded over and over for jumping on the couch, does that mean my mom cared more for the couch then me??? of course not?? its just that there has to be a form of discipline and you cant just ignore it. " not that delcawing an cat is a form of decipline". Although in todays society many parents think that this is a solution. I understand that cats have a natural tendency to scratch things to mark scents, thats why we provide them with the necessary tools to do so aka scratching posts. And as for declawing the animal not benefiting anyone i have friends with declawed cats and they are very happy animals with no litter problems and no aggressive behavour i dont know where anyone is getting this info from but from my experience i have not seen a cat that is declawed be anymore aggressive then a cat that still has his claws and to draw conclusions that the cat that was declawed is prone to be more aggressive is not justified. In the long run i think it does benfit the owner if you need proof just look at the thread asking if cats scratch leather couches also.

I will admit that it is selfish on the part of the owner to want to declaw the cat. But i believe it is the owners choice to make and in the end it doesnt really effect the cat that much. They can and still do scratch things with their paws.

The other thing i was wondering if people here have a problem with clipping dogs tails and ears? Maybe i should start another thread to see.

Also i dont believe any insults have been slung back and forth and if they have i am oblivious to them.

But i do agree that not much head way can be made some people just have a differnece of opinion and that is just fine. I really enjoy this board and the people on it.

Originally Posted by KittyLova

Do you care about your cat or your couch?
a good cat owner will love there cat or cats. And dont care if there couch
gets all ruined. so do you care for your cat or your couch?
Not to be rude.

Kittylova



Mom of two goof balls

 

[kittylova]

Originally Posted by Rumberg

When i was growing up i was scoldedover and over for jumping on the couch, does that mean my mom cared more for the couch then me???

that what happened to me when i was a kid. No. I bet your mom cared
for you when you were little. just moms care for there couches. No big deal.
Do you care for your sofa?

 

[zissou'smom]

Even if it does not cause problems in the cats you have personally seen, that does not mean it doesn't cause problems.

However, the fact that it may not cause problems does not mean that it solves any, and asking if cats scratch leather couches is simply asking if they do so that you can make a wise decision about buying them since you have a cat and a cat has claws. That is more an example of how you should view life with a cat, there are certain accomodations you make in life, such as living in a certain apartment and having to pay more money, not getting a leather couch (although claws and leather couches can and do coexist), etc.

Cats may and some are perfectly fine after the declaw, but then again not all are and, though there is also risk in any therapeutic surgery, when there is no good reason aside from cosmetic or selfishness, then why risk it?

And there are plenty of cats who do not turn out okay:
http://declaw.lisaviolet.com/declawstory.html
And there is proof that they may be more likely to develop problems:
http://www.felinefuture.com/catcare/declawing.php

Of course you can find sites that recommend that it may not be too bad to declaw, but when you come across one that isn't just someone's personal rant or whatever, they almost always say that declawing should be a last resort, after every single other option is exhausted, and even then the risks should be weighed very carefully, and even then it should be done only if you're going to do something ridiculous like throw it out or "surrender" it. So it seems to me that most people are against declawing, but some people accept it as a terrible means that goes towards the end of all cats having a home. Some shelters do declaws for this reason, because a declawed cat in a home is better than a euthanized cat in a shelter. However, for people like those on this board, who would never dream of giving their cat up for scratching the sofa, I don't think there is any reason to be justifying declawing and I am still unsure of whether people who would "surrender" their cat for being a cat picked the right pet.

I don't feel like there are any insults being slung either... if anything this is one of the best debates we've had on the subject simply because the original poster didn't say "I'm about to declaw my cat what should I do?" and then refuse to even listen to anything, rather we are all cat lovers debating a surgery which none of us have had done...

 

[trouts mom]

I am against it for sure. I agree with everything Zissous mom said.

 

[tnr1]

Originally Posted by Rumberg

I completely agree, every animal i have ever owned has been spayed or nuetered and i think it is important to do so. But i would still say both are unnecssary procedures. My SO's family ownes a farm and they fix the female cats but dont bother fixing the males.

So...let me understand something..it is completely ok for these intact males to go off and impregnant other intact females outside of your SO's family's farm??? And don't tell me that isn't happening...because you don't know that. If it were me, I'd have them all fixed and not even risk it.

Katie

 

[dragulescugirl]

I must say, the feeling of your cat's paws with the claws retracted, lying peacefully around your neck or petting your face is one of the most wonderful feelings in the world. Or being able to hold their little paws, tickle the pads, and not worry about being harmed. To know my cats, who have sharp little weapons at their fingertips (har har) choose to hold me or caress me with no threat of scratching is a tribute to a caring and loving relationship.

All has been said about the physical reasons one shouldn't declaw, but I give you an emotional one. The love and gentle touch of a cat's paws in a relaxed state reaffirms the devotion my cats and I have for each other.