Here's another Declawing: A rational Look
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Declawing Advice... Please no mean comments!!
- Thread starter mrs.harris
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You've gotten LOTS of great advice and I applaud you for hearing us and trying the soft paws. So many new members come here determined to justify declawing and refuse to even hear alternatives. I just want to say one thing... if the soft paws don't work and you can't, for what ever reason, deter her scratching PLEASE think of your cat's best interests and NOT your own. It would be in your cat's best interest to then be re-homed instead of declawed. I understand you love her but the MOST loving thing you could do for her if it comes to that is to find someone who will love her as much as you do that can live with her and her claws. Yes, it will be hard to do and heartbreaking. You will be sad for a long time about it but imagine how bad you'll feel if something goes wrong with the declaw.
I'm sorry you hubby doesn't share your love of animans... I think he's missing out. Perhaps if your kitty stops using her claws inappropriatly you husband will leanr the joys of being loved by a cat.
You haven't mentioned how old she is or where you got her either?
I'm sorry you hubby doesn't share your love of animans... I think he's missing out. Perhaps if your kitty stops using her claws inappropriatly you husband will leanr the joys of being loved by a cat.
You haven't mentioned how old she is or where you got her either?
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I adopted her from a local shelter, they said she is 1 year and 4 months, but I don't know if that is correct.
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Thanks, she is gorgeous!! I love her little white tummy and paws and that spot on her nose!
If it comes down to returning her and adopting an already declawed cat, keep in mind you could have some of the emotional/physical problems that most declawed cats have.
If the problems occur, what will your husband do then? Have you shown him the results and the procedure? Have you explained what really happens and what can happen after a declaw?
If the problems occur, what will your husband do then? Have you shown him the results and the procedure? Have you explained what really happens and what can happen after a declaw?
Since she is already an adult, please try to exhaust your other options first. The soft claws and a good sturdy well placed post should really help.
http://www.esmartcat.com/shopping/Sc..._Solutions.htm
http://www.catsinternational.org/art...Declawing.html
http://www.catsinternational.org/art...chingpost.html
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Pippen, your post broke my heart. I know you feel responsible, but it wasn't you. It was the vet that did the job, the pain the cat had to endure as well as the age of the cat when the procedure was done that turned your cat into a different being. I have a friend who only rescues declawed cats from shelters. She works with them gently, tries to socialize the trauma from them then when they are ready, they go into retirement communities, hospices, and nursing homes. She has only had a few that were 4 paw declawed and she has had to keep both because of behavior issues. No vet worth his salt would ever 4-paw declaw.
There is a lot of hype around declawing. Lynch mobs would form here in the past when someone suggested they were thinking about it. But the bottom line is there are some cats who cannot travel through the pain, they cannot understand why a human would hurt them like that and so they react for their own survival. Left without claws, leaves them with only one defense their teeth. If declawing were such an answer then why do so many declawed cats end up in shelters and rescue centers?
There is a lot of hype around declawing. Lynch mobs would form here in the past when someone suggested they were thinking about it. But the bottom line is there are some cats who cannot travel through the pain, they cannot understand why a human would hurt them like that and so they react for their own survival. Left without claws, leaves them with only one defense their teeth. If declawing were such an answer then why do so many declawed cats end up in shelters and rescue centers?
My first cat was declawed (by my parents insistance to keep the cat). I was only a teen - didn't know what they really did. When Mitten came home (he was several years old when declawed), I cried at his bandaged feet. He would not walk around; I had to carry him to the litter pan and he couldn't use it right cause he could not stand on his feet.
He healed fine, even went outside under supervision, even caught baby birds/rabbits. He was the exception in what most declawed cats go thru. But I would NEVER declaw another cat.
He healed fine, even went outside under supervision, even caught baby birds/rabbits. He was the exception in what most declawed cats go thru. But I would NEVER declaw another cat.
I also clip my cat's claws regularly. An occasional scratch doesn't bother me though. I would NEVER put him through the pain and trauma of declawing.
I volunteer weekly with a cat rescue. We have four declawed cats currently in our system. Three of them have litterbox issues and often pee outside the box. One of these also has a biting problem. Only one of these cats seems to be "normal".
Would your husband prefer a cat that pees on the furniture and bites him to one that can accidently claw him sometimes? Because thats what he may get if he pushes the declawing issue.
I volunteer weekly with a cat rescue. We have four declawed cats currently in our system. Three of them have litterbox issues and often pee outside the box. One of these also has a biting problem. Only one of these cats seems to be "normal".
Would your husband prefer a cat that pees on the furniture and bites him to one that can accidently claw him sometimes? Because thats what he may get if he pushes the declawing issue.
I'm anti-declaw, of course, but I wanted to offer a few suggestions. The first off is, if you have the money to declaw, I'd suggest that you look for a behaviorist to help you learn to redirect and change her aggressive behavior. You can find behaviorists that can/will help you without actually coming to your house. The price I've seen is about $75 - $100 for an hour long consultation, provided you've filled out an extremely comprehensive questionairre regarding your cat's behavior, and then that usually includes several weeks (or longer) of follow up emails or phone calls. There seems to have been a lot of success with behaviorists. Here's one, but you may want to do your own searching as well. http://www.thecatbehaviorist.com/ She also seems to be a little more affordable than some of the others and it's a different price for email vs. phone.
It sounds to me as if perhaps the cat may have been taken from it's mother when she was younger, and possibly didn't have proper socialization from other kitties (before 12 weeks of age, which is what recent research has shown to be a more appropriate age for them to leave their litter). It could also be that you're inadvertantly reinforcing the behavior, or it could be that the kitten needs some routine play time and part of it might be that it needs a more routine "outlet" for it's energy.
There are a couple of things you might try here, and it sort of depends on your situation. First, never play with the kitten with your hands. If your cat turns on you, don't pull away, move toward it or be still. Moving away from the cat when it attacks your ankles is prey-like behavior. Moving toward the cat confuses it a bit. If you can tell or if there is a routine or pattern to when the kitty attacks your ankles, try to redirect it by throwing a toy or ball across it's path and away from your ankles *before* it attacks. Once it attacks, though, don't throw the toy as it's then a "reward" for the attacking behavior and reinforces it.
When it turns on your hands, stop moving, say "ouch!" or "meow!" in a louder voice, and then put the cat down from the couch, or move it away from you, and ignore it completely. Don't punish, as the cat will only associate you with the punishment and can inadvertantly make the aggression worse if the cat associates your hands with punishment or pain.
I'd also try playing for 15-20 minutes at least once a day, but I'd try to do two times a day. Move the toy like prey would move, and let the cat "plan" it's attack. This involves it mentally as well as physically and will exercise both mind and body. Let the cat successfully catch it's prey every so often, for a few seconds, and bask in the success. Ultimately wind down the session by letting it "kill" the prey.. start out moving the toy like unwounded prey, then let it.. stumble away, or move more slowly like it's wounded, and finally let the cat "catch and kill" it.
Anyway, hope this helps some. These techniques will probably take a little while for you to see improvement.. perhaps try writing down the number of times a day it's happening daily and then see if you're seeing an improvement in the behavior. I'd start using the soft paws in the meantime, though, so you're not getting injured.
It sounds to me as if perhaps the cat may have been taken from it's mother when she was younger, and possibly didn't have proper socialization from other kitties (before 12 weeks of age, which is what recent research has shown to be a more appropriate age for them to leave their litter). It could also be that you're inadvertantly reinforcing the behavior, or it could be that the kitten needs some routine play time and part of it might be that it needs a more routine "outlet" for it's energy.
There are a couple of things you might try here, and it sort of depends on your situation. First, never play with the kitten with your hands. If your cat turns on you, don't pull away, move toward it or be still. Moving away from the cat when it attacks your ankles is prey-like behavior. Moving toward the cat confuses it a bit. If you can tell or if there is a routine or pattern to when the kitty attacks your ankles, try to redirect it by throwing a toy or ball across it's path and away from your ankles *before* it attacks. Once it attacks, though, don't throw the toy as it's then a "reward" for the attacking behavior and reinforces it.
When it turns on your hands, stop moving, say "ouch!" or "meow!" in a louder voice, and then put the cat down from the couch, or move it away from you, and ignore it completely. Don't punish, as the cat will only associate you with the punishment and can inadvertantly make the aggression worse if the cat associates your hands with punishment or pain.
I'd also try playing for 15-20 minutes at least once a day, but I'd try to do two times a day. Move the toy like prey would move, and let the cat "plan" it's attack. This involves it mentally as well as physically and will exercise both mind and body. Let the cat successfully catch it's prey every so often, for a few seconds, and bask in the success. Ultimately wind down the session by letting it "kill" the prey.. start out moving the toy like unwounded prey, then let it.. stumble away, or move more slowly like it's wounded, and finally let the cat "catch and kill" it.
Anyway, hope this helps some. These techniques will probably take a little while for you to see improvement.. perhaps try writing down the number of times a day it's happening daily and then see if you're seeing an improvement in the behavior. I'd start using the soft paws in the meantime, though, so you're not getting injured.
You love her so much you are willing to have her finger tips chopped off
Thats what they do, I've only seen pictures and it is unpleasant.
OK and what happens when he gets to his wits end about her biting? he will want you to rehome Layla. So you will cause her excruciating pain, leave her defenseless and then get rid of her.
Try the claw cap things, they get glued on so I highly doubt she will get them off, and get more scratch posts or some old carpet cutoffs for her.
Please do not declaw. Rehome Layla or rehome your husband
I agree with everyone else about declawing, so I won't lecture you on my opinions. I have also used Soft Paws in the past and found them to be extremely helpful. My sister's dog also wears pink soft paws! Buster's soft paws never fell off! It only came off when the vet clipped his long nails (after 6 months). The package comes with a glue and it works well. Buster never seemed upset about the Soft Paws and continued to scratch the carpet but it no longer tore up. At least he still got the sensation of scratching.
Buster does not wear Soft Paws anymore because he's not really a scratching type of cat. He's pretty mellow. However, I did buy an expensive scratching post and he's been very happy with that. He still scratches the carpet sometimes but that's part and parcel of owning a cat.
Buster does not wear Soft Paws anymore because he's not really a scratching type of cat. He's pretty mellow. However, I did buy an expensive scratching post and he's been very happy with that. He still scratches the carpet sometimes but that's part and parcel of owning a cat.
I haven't read all the responses yet.
I do wonder how the countries (most of the world) who do not allow declawing manage? I hear so often "I have no other choice." So why do Americans and Canadians run into this no-choice situation so often? Europe doesn't, Australia doesn't. Interesting. If mutilation was outlawed here, owners would just have to figure out a way to deal with it. I hope I live long enough to see it outlawed.
I am totally anti-mutilation. I have been scratched and bitten by animals. Somehow I made it to age 42 and will probably survive even longer. I have a few scars but not am concerned about those. Years of love and knowing my feline friends are healthy is worth it to me. If I didn't want to be scratched once in awhile, I wouldn't have animals.
This topic just breaks my heart.
Edit: I hope this didn't come across as mean. I do admire you for asking and for considering other options. Many people don't even bother to research. This is just a tough topic for me.
I do wonder how the countries (most of the world) who do not allow declawing manage? I hear so often "I have no other choice." So why do Americans and Canadians run into this no-choice situation so often? Europe doesn't, Australia doesn't. Interesting. If mutilation was outlawed here, owners would just have to figure out a way to deal with it. I hope I live long enough to see it outlawed.
I am totally anti-mutilation. I have been scratched and bitten by animals. Somehow I made it to age 42 and will probably survive even longer. I have a few scars but not am concerned about those. Years of love and knowing my feline friends are healthy is worth it to me. If I didn't want to be scratched once in awhile, I wouldn't have animals.
This topic just breaks my heart.
Edit: I hope this didn't come across as mean. I do admire you for asking and for considering other options. Many people don't even bother to research. This is just a tough topic for me.
"Most" vets do not educate about declawing. They just upsell spay/neuter as though someone were buying fries with a burger. "oh a spay? Would you like a declaw with that?" A few vets actually care and will take steps to teach, most don't though. Just more profit for them. We really need to try harder to make mutilation illegal.
This is where I was really caught off guard. I was at 4 vet's offices before I found what was a good fit for me and my cat. There was nothing ahead of time except signing a standard "I understandblahblahblah form". And when I returned when he had trouble I was told larger cats frequently do and need longer courses of meds. So then why don't they send them home with those instructions???Originally Posted by Bonnie1965
"Most" vets do not educate about declawing. They just upsell spay/neuter as though someone were buying fries with a burger. "oh a spay? Would you like a declaw with that?" A few vets actually care and will take steps to teach, most don't though. Just more profit for them. We really need to try harder to make mutilation illegal.
I wasn't totally ignorant of the procedure, and anyway ultimately I'm responsible for my actions concerning my pet. To be truthful when weighing the decision I had a really hard time believing the anti-declaw info. Declawing is the norm where I live and most of my friends upon hearing my kitten was going in for neutering at ten weeks of age responded with "Are you getting him declawed too? It's much easier for them when they're young". I know scores of people who have had cats declawed who claim no problems, including my brother's cat who is one of the lovliest and most capable indoor/outdoor cats I've known. Compared to what I was being assured of by people I know (a day or two of tenderness at most) the anti-claw info came off to me as people who were very passionate about the topic and were describing what seemed to me (in light of what I was hearing) as rare exceptional situations and not the norm. I've always had a hard time finding such passion/extremes believable.
Sigh...now I'm left wondering if people see only what they want to see. I've had my baby since he was two weeks old and the moment I picked him up and cradled him and he tried to grasp my arm like he always did, I knew that his strength was gone. I knew as soon as he took his first steps that his paw was striking the floor in all the wrong ways. I knew what kind of pain he was in trying to follow me around the house and how frustrated he was at not being able to do his normal activity. I'm thankful that I haven't had to deal with long term behavioral effects, but in hindsight it's doubtful people who had reasons to get rid of a cat later would blame it on themselves due to declaw surgery they'd opted for in in the first place.
To the OP, I'm glad you opened up this topic because I have struggled with this since April. The one thing I would tell you from my experience is that I wished I'd spent more effort on alternatives. This isn't like a new haircut, which if it turns out bad you can always grow out again and return to normal. This is a choice that you are making for your cat that you won't ever, ever be able to undo, no matter what the outcome.
First, thank you for considering other alternatives for Layla, there are many things that can be done before you consider declawing. To the rest of us... you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar
How long have you had Layla, she may just need more time to adjust, and if you haven't had her too long and she came from a caged shelter, the adjustment time may be longer as the bigger space alone will freak her out. If she was stray and ever attacked, she will be scared of your hands in certain places on her body, is there certain times when she scratches you. As far as furniture, there are sticky strips, scented stuff, ssscat and of course feliway and other calming agents that can be used.
Not all declawed cats have problems with biting and spraying - I have 4 (now 5 but I don't know what her personality is like yet and she was feral to begin with and declawed recently by the shelter to calm her down) here who have never sprayed ever and only bite when I let them get over aggressive fighting and get worse marks from the shelter cats with claws from doing the same.
However, like you say, they are more likely to have arthritis problems in old age from the way they walk from being declawed and that is something vets should be making people aware of before the declawing.
Personally, I wouldn't get it done, we have adopted 2 declawed cats and Matt (and his family) declawed 2 for 'typical' reasons and Bumps for medical reasons (which did help to some extent).
If anyone ever does go ahead with it, never have all 4 paws declawed, they need some defense other than their teeth and they can't jump properly without them.
How long have you had Layla, she may just need more time to adjust, and if you haven't had her too long and she came from a caged shelter, the adjustment time may be longer as the bigger space alone will freak her out. If she was stray and ever attacked, she will be scared of your hands in certain places on her body, is there certain times when she scratches you. As far as furniture, there are sticky strips, scented stuff, ssscat and of course feliway and other calming agents that can be used.
Most vets here do not show such videos, as I posted a while back, my old vet recently had an advert in the paper, and leaflet through the door offering reduced price 'speuter and declawing packages' for kitten season.
As I said above, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. The OP came here before doing it, and unlike some newbies has agreed to try different things... some people are not aware of alternatives, especially if their vets offer packages to have speuter and declaws done at one time (because its better to only put the cat under once).
Not all declawed cats have problems with biting and spraying - I have 4 (now 5 but I don't know what her personality is like yet and she was feral to begin with and declawed recently by the shelter to calm her down) here who have never sprayed ever and only bite when I let them get over aggressive fighting and get worse marks from the shelter cats with claws from doing the same.
However, like you say, they are more likely to have arthritis problems in old age from the way they walk from being declawed and that is something vets should be making people aware of before the declawing.
Personally, I wouldn't get it done, we have adopted 2 declawed cats and Matt (and his family) declawed 2 for 'typical' reasons and Bumps for medical reasons (which did help to some extent).
If anyone ever does go ahead with it, never have all 4 paws declawed, they need some defense other than their teeth and they can't jump properly without them.
I'm so glad you asked for some advice as i'm sure you want the best for Layla. I can't see why declawing would offer a solution. Surely the cat would continue its aggressive behaviour after declawing, plus the cat would now also be in pain and may well have more socialisation problems because of that? I've had experience with lots of cats and any misdirected aggression has a cause and a trainable solution!! catsarebetter offers some great advice to try out. I hope you and the lovely Layla work it out together.
[I'm sorry if you find my comments judgemental, but i'm horrified. This forum has sure opened my eyes to different countries practices that I never knew about
God bless you who have rescued unwanted declawed cats ]
[I'm sorry if you find my comments judgemental, but i'm horrified. This forum has sure opened my eyes to different countries practices that I never knew about
Icklemiss, I don't feel my post was vinegar at all. I was dead serious. Quite honestly, I'm not trying to catch bees and that expression is so overly used on forums. If I sugar coated it, it wouldn't have the same effect.
I'm not judging her, I spoke the way I did because I DID IT FOR THE SAME REASON she is considering it and now I'm paying for it and so is my cat. I was seriously asking...Who is going to care for the cat when these things happen? Not saying they ALL will, but it's likely that some will. Even if they are not visable to us, you have no clue how the cat is suffering inside, as we all know they have an unbelievable ability of masking pain.
Mine doesn't spray, she poops on my floor. I have noticed now that as time goes on symptoms gets worse. When she was a few years old, she LIKED it when I touched her paws, now she literally screams bloody murder, (if you were my neighbor you'd think I was seriously hurting her), if I touch her paws. As the years go buy the reaction has become more drastic. I suppose that makes perfect sense, as the years go buy, it probably becomes increasingly more painful for her.
You can't possibly think it's easy for me to post on here that I did such a horrendous thing to my cat and now she's suffering for it. It's a horrible thing to watch. It's horrible to know that it's all because of something YOU did and it didn't have to happen. If it takes what you consider 'vinegar' to stress that, then so be it. If it makes one person reconsider, then it was worth it.
I'm not judging her, I spoke the way I did because I DID IT FOR THE SAME REASON she is considering it and now I'm paying for it and so is my cat. I was seriously asking...Who is going to care for the cat when these things happen? Not saying they ALL will, but it's likely that some will. Even if they are not visable to us, you have no clue how the cat is suffering inside, as we all know they have an unbelievable ability of masking pain.
Mine doesn't spray, she poops on my floor. I have noticed now that as time goes on symptoms gets worse. When she was a few years old, she LIKED it when I touched her paws, now she literally screams bloody murder, (if you were my neighbor you'd think I was seriously hurting her), if I touch her paws. As the years go buy the reaction has become more drastic. I suppose that makes perfect sense, as the years go buy, it probably becomes increasingly more painful for her.
You can't possibly think it's easy for me to post on here that I did such a horrendous thing to my cat and now she's suffering for it. It's a horrible thing to watch. It's horrible to know that it's all because of something YOU did and it didn't have to happen. If it takes what you consider 'vinegar' to stress that, then so be it. If it makes one person reconsider, then it was worth it.
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