Dealing With My Parents And All Of Their "assets" (and Quirks!)

[les26]

Okay, I'll try to keep this from getting unbearably long, but I am going on 58, my parents are pushing 80, they both had some health issues last year, my dad had a mini stroke my mom was finally able to get off of migraine headache medicine that she was addicted to, had a seizure but that's what it took to wake her up enough and thank God she got help and is better now; they are better but changed forever but they are still here. But even before this stuff happened they have had the issue where they own MANY homes but can only live in 1 but pay taxes on these homes and pay people to take care of cutting the grass and shoveling snow etc. and it is just plain crazy! They lived right across the street from my grandmother who passed in 2009 and they still have her house, didn't do anything with it just cleaned some stuff out but still pay to have it. Many years ago they bought 5 acres of land in which they thought that they would build a home, that never happened yet they still have this land. They bought two row homes which belonged to my great grandparents and my godfather my mom's uncle in the early 1980's thinking they would fix them up and rent them and the garages behind them yet they have sat empty for all these years since my godfather passed away. They have a cabin at a lake up North of us which they pay to have but no one goes up there, and now with only my mom driving I doubt they ever will. They were wonderful and took care of my grandmother and she would not have been able to have stayed in her home until near the end when she passed, and after she passed they bought a home, a BIG EXPENSIVE BEAUTIFUL home and told us they were moving and we all were very happy for them, they took care of Nana and now could move, but that was about 7 years ago now and despite doing little things here and there with that home they are still where they are at, it is driving me CRAZY to see them living like this, no one in their right minds keeps homes and cars and things and doesn't use them or enjoy them, it is like they are stuck in neutral but they have so much money that they can afford to just keep paying for all of this stuff but even though my mother admits this is crazy and saying she is going to sell this or that NOTHING changes....I have offered to help them with anything they need, moving, selling things, moving cars etc. but all I get is a "thank you" but it never goes any further. I am an only child, no others to help me deal with this, and I sat down with them years ago and told them "I just want to see you two enjoy yourselves and be happy before something bad happens and it is too late", then last year these health issues came up and while they still CAN move and enjoy themselves it goes nowhere. I told my mom last night on the phone that I can't listen to it anymore, it is like a broken record when she talks about selling this or that and when I offer to help move it along there are always excuses why to not do anything, I don't understand it, I don't know if they are so stuck in their ways, if they are depressed or just overwhelmed or need help but I have talked to them many times and asked them all of these questions and they deny it but they must be happy enough to NOT do anything and the money is there so there is no urgency to do anything, but I told them last night and many times before "you are going to leave me with one heck of a mess when the time comes", not to be morbid but when something happens to them I of course will be in charge and have to deal with all of this mess and my mom keeps saying "and I don't want that to happen" but I say "but it's going to, you aren't doing anything about it, it's like a broken record playing over and over...." She even told me that the two row homes and garages are next to a realtor on the corner who wants to buy them so he can expand his office and rent the garages out!!! You can't have it any easier than that, yet despite saying last Winter "next Summer I'm going to sell it" it is now August and nothing has changed.

I have tried to listen to people who say "they are the way that they are, you can't change them", and I try to just let it go and whatever happens happens. Then there are times like last night when it really gets to me and I feel that I should be doing something more, but aside from either holding a gun to their heads or having them committed as not being able to take care of things I feel powerless. They are my parents, I love them and just wish to see them happy and not paying taxes and monies so that "ghosts" can live in these places, the 2 row homes, my grandmother's home, the big mansion they bought and the home they live in now, it's just crazy, I'm sorry but this isn't right....

ANY advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you!!!

 

[DreamerRose]

You definitely need to talk to a lawyer, perhaps one who concentrates in elder law. It may be possible to have them declared mentally incompetent so you can become their guardian. Then you would be able to dispose of all these properties and consolidate their assets. This would be a difficult thing to do, but you sound at the end of your rope.

 

[les26]

You definitely need to talk to a lawyer, perhaps one who concentrates in elder law. It may be possible to have them declared mentally incompetent so you can become their guardian. Then you would be able to dispose of all these properties and consolidate their assets. This would be a difficult thing to do, but you sound at the end of your rope.

The thought has crossed my mind...like you said it would be VERY hard to do, but I don't know what else to do, if I just let it go I will eventually be doing everything anyway. I don't know if there is anyone else in the world who has dealt with this situation, I'd LOVE to talk to them!

Ugh....

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

You definitely need to talk to a lawyer, perhaps one who concentrates in elder law. It may be possible to have them declared mentally incompetent so you can become their guardian. Then you would be able to dispose of all these properties and consolidate their assets. This would be a difficult thing to do, but you sound at the end of your rope.

The thought has crossed my mind...like you said it would be VERY hard to do, but I don't know what else to do, if I just let it go I will eventually be doing everything anyway. I don't know if there is anyone else in the world who has dealt with this situation, I'd LOVE to talk to them!

Ugh....

The poor are, "mentally incompetent." The affluent are merely eccentric.



les26 - It sounds as though - save a little negative cash flow against the inflation rate and returns on their real property - that your Parents' assets are pretty well-orchestrated, which would suggest that they're already under the guidance of professional financial advice and legal counsel.

Many years ago at school, I knew a chap from an "old" Family who was miffed by the fact that his Father was miserly with allowances. His Father was eccentric enough, I suppose, but actually was making an effort to teach the art is budgeting to his Son, who'd grown up on the proper end of a silver spoon.

My schoolmate contacted a solicitor, who advised him not to pursue divesting his Father of the control of his wealth, but the lawyer's advice went unheeded. He lost his case, of course, and incurred the bitter and undying enmity of his Father, but resigned himself to simply waiting, knowing that on his Father's death, he'd reap his reward under the law.

At the Reading, he was surprised to find that moments before his Father's death, in a letter sealed and countersigned by the old man's legal counsel, that he'd donated the Family home and contents to the National Trust, and had prior liquidated his real holdings, donating (again - before his death, and hence unassailable by his Son, legally) roughly thirty-five million Pounds to various charitable organisations, leaving my school chum the Princely sum of fifty Pence - of which counsel, as Disburser, took seventeen Pence for fees.

Always try to be certain that you'll be happy with the future you try to make for yourself in the present.
.

 

[les26]

The poor are, "mentally incompetent." The affluent are merely eccentric.



les26 - It sounds as though - save a little negative cash flow against the inflation rate and returns on their real property - that your Parents' assets are pretty well-orchestrated, which would suggest that they're already under the guidance of professional financial advice and legal counsel.

Many years ago at school, I knew a chap from an "old" Family who was miffed by the fact that his Father was miserly with allowances. His Father was eccentric enough, I suppose, but actually was making an effort to teach the art is budgeting to his Son, who'd grown up on the proper end of a silver spoon.

My schoolmate contacted a solicitor, who advised him not to pursue divesting his Father of the control of his wealth, but the lawyer's advice went unheeded. He lost his case, of course, and incurred the bitter and undying enmity of his Father, but resigned himself to simply waiting, knowing that on his Father's death, he'd reap his reward under the law.

At the Reading, he was surprised to find that moments before his Father's death, in a letter sealed and countersigned by the old man's legal counsel, that he'd donated the Family home and contents to the National Trust, and had prior liquidated his real holdings, donating (again - before his death, and hence unassailable by his Son, legally) roughly thirty-five million Pounds to various charitable organisations, leaving my school chum the Princely sum of fifty Pence - of which counsel, as Disburser, took seventeen Pence for fees.

Always try to be certain that you'll be happy with the future you try to make for yourself in the present.
.

Yes they do have a lawyer, I have his card should anything happen to them, but I don't know the extent of what they use(d) him for.

One of the problems is while like you said they are paying taxes and monies out the income they are getting in from pensions and so on is well more than what is going out so while she admits it is "crazy" to dish this money out there is no urgency to dump these properties and cars; if they were strapped for money like most of us are they would've sold them LONG ago, but since the money is just still coming in faster than it is going out there's no real urgency.

I told them before and still say it, I just want them to be happy and live their lives out happy. Why on Earth would they want to move into a big house now as they are pushing 80 each, people downsize as they get older, BUT they have the money to do whatever they please, as crazy as it seems!!!

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Why on Earth would they want to move into a big house now as they are pushing 80

les26 - The answer to this is always the same: "because they can."
.

 

[les26]

les26 - The answer to this is always the same: "because they can."
.

That's true, they CAN but I wish that they would do it! This beautiful big house that sits there empty, weeds growing where they shouldn't be, it's a sin to see happening.

But they CAN do it, money talks.....

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

money talks.....

les26 - It does, and while it doesn't always speak eloquently, it always gets the last word.
.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
I have (although on a MUCH smaller scale!) something a little similar, in that my Dad has stuff that he fully admits will "be a surprise" when I'm there in his place, dealing with his things after he passes. Sort of a gee, thanks a lot there, Dad...

I pretty clearly told him I !!HATE!! surprises. I'm quite certain it went in one ear and out the other, although a couple conversations later I at least did get an idea of what's in one of the larger sealed up boxes....

So, if you'll allow me to ask, if these two people were someone else's family members, would you feel the same about them and their situation? Would you tell the only son/daughter that since they're not strapped for cash, to leave the difficult conversations that aren't accomplishing anything "at the door" so to speak, and not talk to them about the situation any more, except possibly for clarification et al when needed?

I think that sometimes, because they're family members and we've known them all our lives, we forget that they are people, and deserving of not only our love but our respect for their wishes and how they live their lives. --Don't get me wrong, I know better than some how very difficult it can be to keep my mouth shut, and that on occasion I must speak up. But when it's something like this where the discussions have occurred and there's no action being taken and no actual direct harm occurring, there is possibly more ill will and frustration being created than it's worth.

To leave the contentious subjects out of future conversations does a couple of things. It lowers ones blood pressure (always a good thing where family members are concerned LOL), plus it helps them when they can know that their child isn't going to be upset --about whatever, because make no mistake, they love you very very much and don't want you to be unhappy about anything.

Hang in there! I know it's challenging, I really do, but at the end of the day, it's worth it to have more relaxed interactions with one's parents.

 

[artiemom]

I do not know what to say..

You have been given really good advice..

Perhaps an elder care attorney, for a consult.. just to get some ideas of what/if anything you can do..

Do they have a Power of Attorney set up?
Hopefully, it is you...

The other thought is to set up an appointment with their own attorney, just so you can have an idea of what is going on, financially.. After all, at your parents age.. it is strange that they are in complete control of their finances. You need to be informed of what they have, and where important documents are located.

You could even tell/ask your parents about your appointment with their lawyer, before hand...explaining it as a way of "helping" YOU out... kind of phrase it as they can help YOU...

kind of turn the psychology on.. and blame it on you.. that by doing this, they would be Helping YOU ....

Not so much as: getting rid of THEIR possessions...

You really have to tread slowly and easily when dealing with elderly parents.. control of their care, is really the only thing they have..

Good Luck...

 

[GreyLady]

Are the houses being taken care of, are they all still actually valuable?

Honestly, all you can do is talk to them about how you want them to use what they have now. If they don't do it, they don't do it. I don't think there is a need to really "take action." Especially since this sounds like its about how they live their lives, not you being concerned about what they will pass on to you.

Im sure there was a time when everything your parents did you just accepted and figured they knew what they were doing. They still have 30 or more years on you, maybe they still do or have a plan you don't know about. Who knows. As long as the properties are in good shape you could sell or rent them yourself when they pass on.

 

[les26]

They do have a power of attorney and executor of the estate and that is me, I will get and deal with everything when the time comes. I just wish that they would get rid of some of these places because it at times seems to be very upsetting to my mother who is running the show, having to pay taxes on them, pay someone to cut the grass and shovel the snow, things that she admits "are crazy" but doesn't do anything about so I thought me suggesting to help her would help move that out of the way for them. They have a car stored in the one garage that goes with the 2 row homes, my father wants to keep this car, a 1973 Mercury Comet, not a collector's car at all, but he wants to keep it and "maybe fix it up one day". My father hasn't driven since last year when he had this mini stroke and who knows if he ever will again. And when I suggest to her that we just tow that car out of there if that is the only thing holding up the sale of the garages and row homes all I get are excuses why not to, "I don't want it at this house or that house"...she even talks about donating it but does nothing about it, she probably thinks it would upset my father so we are stuck at an impasse there. And my father has 3 other cars stored in garages that he might "fix up one day", but they have been there for more years then I can imagine. Let's face it, if he didn't fix any of them up years ago how is he going to do it now at almost 80 and after having a mini stroke? Do you see why I and others think this is just "crazy"?!

The homes are in so-so shape, they should be sold as is and let someone do something with them. They aren't in the best shape but they aren't run down either, but they are getting there.

There are just layers after layers to this situation.....

 

[Furballsmom]

There are just layers after layers to this situation.....

I know, and I'm not surprised, to be honest.
Sure, it's crazy, but it's their crazy and really, in the big picture of it all, not truly that big a deal. Of course she's talking about it, sometimes people do that and say things like that because they think they're expected to, whether they themselves really intend to "do anything".
Hang in there, and try and let it go if you can .

 

[artiemom]

another thought... would it be of any help to ask to speak with their PCP-- regarding all of your concerns.. They really do not seem to be very cognizant and understanding of their financial situation..

They really seem confused...

If they are over 70 years old, living alone, with medical issues.... well, to me, it sounds as if they are really not fully competent of taking care of ALL of their daily living issues... and need help....

Not that I am condoning taking power away from them, but they do seem to need some type of help...

Perhaps their PCP can help guide them along-- that is, once knowing how they are not really understanding--making sense of their financial issues.. this always seems to be the first thing to go...

Are your parents fully able to take care of themselves with daily functions?? I mean Routine daily things?? as in daily functions: cleaning, cooking, shopping, financial???
This is Without YOU...
this is important..

I know I am leading to an incapacity judgement... but, you want what is best for them; which will ultimately be better for you., in the long run...

I completely know where your are going from, as I am an only child also..,

It was really hard.. if not downright emotionally impossible for me to get my dad to accept and admit he need help, for his daily hygiene.. I finally had to put my foot down and say that it is too much for me.. that I love him,. but I cannot work 40+ houses a week and still take 150% care of him, on a daily basis.. I needed help.. He needed help.. It was not until I cried, pulled a nutty on him ...and kind of put the responsibility on him, that it would be so much easier for me--- that it would decrease my constant worrying about him... that he relented and agreed to some home care... it was a battle...

I wish you the best...
sorry for any typos, grammatical errors... I am not proofreading..

 

[les26]

another thought... would it be of any help to ask to speak with their PCP-- regarding all of your concerns.. They really do not seem to be very cognizant and understanding of their financial situation..

They really seem confused...

If they are over 70 years old, living alone, with medical issues.... well, to me, it sounds as if they are really not fully competent of taking care of ALL of their daily living issues... and need help....

Not that I am condoning taking power away from them, but they do seem to need some type of help...

Perhaps their PCP can help guide them along-- that is, once knowing how they are not really understanding--making sense of their financial issues.. this always seems to be the first thing to go...

Are your parents fully able to take care of themselves with daily functions?? I mean Routine daily things?? as in daily functions: cleaning, cooking, shopping, financial???
This is Without YOU...
this is important..

I know I am leading to an incapacity judgement... but, you want what is best for them; which will ultimately be better for you., in the long run...

I completely know where your are going from, as I am an only child also..,

It was really hard.. if not downright emotionally impossible for me to get my dad to accept and admit he need help, for his daily hygiene.. I finally had to put my foot down and say that it is too much for me.. that I love him,. but I cannot work 40+ houses a week and still take 150% care of him, on a daily basis.. I needed help.. He needed help.. It was not until I cried, pulled a nutty on him ...and kind of put the responsibility on him, that it would be so much easier for me--- that it would decrease my constant worrying about him... that he relented and agreed to some home care... it was a battle...

I wish you the best...
sorry for any typos, grammatical errors... I am not proofreading..

Yes, this was all things that we discussed and I made darn sure that they ARE still capable of taking care of themselves and they still are able to, I have seen that first hand as that was a concern and I did make many phone calls last year just checking out my "options" for them.

I would not say that they are confused, it might sound like that to an outsider, it seems to be more of an "attitude" that we were able to buy this and we will do what we want with it if and when we want to, but like I said my mom complains about having this excess stuff, complains about living where they are and my answer is always "you have the answer to this, that gorgeous empty house you bought". For some reason or reasons, they don't REALLY seem to want to sell them OR move despite what she says otherwise, I just don't know why. I know that they don't work with each other on it, they haven't for years, they used to fight about things and it would go nowhere, one would tell me it was the other's fault, they are enablers, and now with my father being not what he was even years ago I don't see them moving at all now. We shall see I guess.

My wife tells me and a very good woman friend from work tells me "I know this is making you crazy, but you have to let it go; they are just going to say and do what they want", and while they admit it is very hard I guess I am just going to have to try to do that, again.

 

[artiemom]

Sometimes, you can only do what you can...and let things lie... they will work out, eventually...

What is more important to you:
having your parents do things your way...or
dealing with things after they are no longer here or able to handle things??

What about your relationship with them??
Will it deteriorate, if you continue on this current course, or just "let it be" and deal with things, later... whatever the consequences or situation...

 

[Furballsmom]

I guess I am just going to have to try to do that, again.

I'm not suggesting that this is specific to us only-children, because I think it's challenging no matter what the situation.
Hang in there!! You're a caring, considerate person and your parents obviously did a great job raising you

 

[nansiludie]

I am coming from a different perspective. If they are not in a financial difficulty I don't really see the harm in them continuing to own those homes while they can. I think a reason that they might be so hesitant to sell them is because all the memories of those whom owned them previously are firmly cemented to them. I also think that they had all these plans and hopes of what they might do one day with the properties and once they've been sold off, there also goes that. Might seem petty to some but I understand it. This is my opinion and mine only and it may very well be quite off base but for some odd reason, I seem to get an understanding from your posts that you want to lighten the load of what will be left behind for you to sort through once they are gone. Is it such a certain thing that all these properties and such won't be donated to some organization which could possibly be another reason they refuse to sell? Just a thought. Again, I don't mean any offense but honestly, if they can get along financially fine, what harm is it truly causing if it brings them some happiness? There is one thing I am sure of, if you pursue this mentally incompetent charge it's going to break their hearts. Sure they might be pushing 80 but they are not dead yet. Don't sell them short, no pun intended, no one is guaranteed tomorrow.

 

[les26]

I am coming from a different perspective. If they are not in a financial difficulty I don't really see the harm in them continuing to own those homes while they can. I think a reason that they might be so hesitant to sell them is because all the memories of those whom owned them previously are firmly cemented to them. I also think that they had all these plans and hopes of what they might do one day with the properties and once they've been sold off, there also goes that. Might seem petty to some but I understand it. This is my opinion and mine only and it may very well be quite off base but for some odd reason, I seem to get an understanding from your posts that you want to lighten the load of what will be left behind for you to sort through once they are gone. Is it such a certain thing that all these properties and such won't be donated to some organization which could possibly be another reason they refuse to sell? Just a thought. Again, I don't mean any offense but honestly, if they can get along financially fine, what harm is it truly causing if it brings them some happiness? There is one thing I am sure of, if you pursue this mentally incompetent charge it's going to break their hearts. Sure they might be pushing 80 but they are not dead yet. Don't sell them short, no pun intended, no one is guaranteed tomorrow.

Well, my mom has said many times that she doesn't have any emotional ties to these places, says that she hates where they are living now yet they have a gorgeous home waiting for them that quite frankly they paid $399,000.00 CASH for 7 years ago just sitting empty and slowly deteriorating. That is why I am trying to shore things up, get them to sell these loose ends and move into this house. I have even joked with them in the past and they know I was joking that I was going to declare them incompetent, sell all of the things they don't use, move them up to this house and give them suitcases full of the money that was made and say "here, now enjoy your life!!!" I could never push for anything like that, yes it would be heartless and cruel and break their hearts, I have briefly thought of that as an option and I am sure there are MANY people out there who would have done that just to cash in on things but I cannot do that to them. I just want to see them happy and living somewhere that they want to live if this house is it; she keeps saying she hates the neighborhood now where they live yet they have the answer at their fingertips. And no they are not going to donate anything, she has told me many times "it will all be yours someday" and I have seen the copy of the will saying so. And honestly, many won't believe it, but I really don't see dollar signs and think about it, I just want to try to lessen the load for them and me by starting to follow through on what she says she wants to do, sell these things, yet when I say "okay, let's do it, I'll help you" nothing gets done except excuses why not to do anything. I asked them straight out many times "do you really want to move?" and they say "yes", but nothing gets done, like they are stuck in mud. So here we sit, stuck in mud, I'm trying to get us unstuck but if they don't want to go I will just shut the car off again I guess. And it isn't bringing them any happiness, I don't know what emotion it is bringing but it surely doesn't make them happy to have all of these places, but as long as the money is coming in and there is no need to sell anything it will just go on and on and on.....

 

[Furballsmom]

The thought crossed my mind that if you refrain from saying anything further about this to them, wait, and I'm guessing your mom might surprise you. Without you talking about it all the time, she may decide, on her own, to do something.
Or if you haven't, ask her, "why do you say yes you want to, and then don't?"