Dealing with cat’s aggression towards people

[Eurocat]

Hi there
Of course - please feel free to use anything I‘ve written if it can be of any help (or to make changes it so it sounds better ! )
I go with everything that our extremely knowledgeable and experienced Kwik‘s been saying.
I‘ve used Zyklene as a calming aid on and off with my little skittish kitty in an attempt to help her through the first weeks and months in trying to transition her from a terrified Greek street cat to a more comfortable, content and cozy cuddle cat here in Germany. Zyklene is based on the milk protein, casein, is lactose free and is said to have calming properties. I have no idea if it helped or not, but my kitty is doing very well . When I used it I just opened a capsule and sprinkled it on her food. She seemed to like the (probably milky) taste. It was even available on amazon here. Gabapentin sounds like the best deal though if required in terms of short term effectivity.
Oh by the way have you seen this video on Youtube from an English lady, Tiffany Dodd, who does amazing work with cat rescues? In this video she rehabilitates a supposedly aggressive Siamese (who had come from a very difficult background). This cat does seem more challenging than Lisa to start, but it may br interesting to watch how the cat progresses with the patience and love provided.
Sending you the very best of wishes from the Frankfurt area and a happy New Year 2024 - may all your wishes come true!
Best of luck - I‘m sure Lisa will be a great companion for the right person.

 

[price053]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful, helpful and encouraging post. To find a right home for little Lisa is my biggest dream, and your description of the ideal potential owner sounds perfect.
May I pass it onto the charity that advertises her?

I was thinking of harness training as I also have a feeling it would do her good, but as it is quite cold outside and they have already started fireworks here and there-the situation isn’t perfect. I will pass the advice onto the new owners.
I tried the clicker training, but so far not much success. Will continue.

One question I have to you or to anyone who reads it: my interpretation is that Lisa’s aggressive behaviour is base on insecurity and fear. But here I had some opinion clash with the previous foster mum, who believes that Lisa is trying to dominate her humans. She was very scarred when Lisa did not allow her to leave the kitchen after the attack for some time (hissing, screaming loudly, growling), and she made this conclusion. She therefore believes the key is not to allow to be dominated and hold your ground.

I believe it is important to understand the route cause to inform the new owners correctly as much is possible. But my question is whether a dominance is really a thing for cats and how it presents itself and what look out for??

BTW, The attack itself is puzzling for me as all that I have observed so far was occasional hissing, and I was able to either distract her with a toy or to walk away pretending to ignore her and acting is it is all good as much as possible. And so far we have not observed signs of “dominance” of any kind.
But as the foster mum is a very experienced owner, it does not feel right to discard her opinion.

Maybe she didn't like her for what ever the reason is. You may not be getting the whole story on that situation. If she has not done that with you I may have been just that person.

 

[Kwik]

Hi there
Of course - please feel free to use anything I‘ve written if it can be of any help (or to make changes it so it sounds better ! )
I go with everything that our extremely knowledgeable and experienced Kwik‘s been saying.
I‘ve used Zyklene as a calming aid on and off with my little skittish kitty in an attempt to help her through the first weeks and months in trying to transition her from a terrified Greek street cat to a more comfortable, content and cozy cuddle cat here in Germany. Zyklene is based on the milk protein, casein, is lactose free and is said to have calming properties. I have no idea if it helped or not, but my kitty is doing very well . When I used it I just opened a capsule and sprinkled it on her food. She seemed to like the (probably milky) taste. It was even available on amazon here. Gabapentin sounds like the best deal though if required in terms of short term effectivity.
Oh by the way have you seen this video on Youtube from an English lady, Tiffany Dodd, who does amazing work with cat rescues? In this video she rehabilitates a supposedly aggressive Siamese (who had come from a very difficult background). This cat does seem more challenging than Lisa to start, but it may br interesting to watch how the cat progresses with the patience and love provided.
Sending you the very best of wishes from the Frankfurt area and a happy New Year 2024 - may all your wishes come true!
Best of luck - I‘m sure Lisa will be a great companion for the right person.

Eurocat the video won't play,it says " unavailable " disabled by the owner- I'm not good at that stuff( internet stuff/conputers(;so I'm not sure if is just me- lol

 

[Aldel]

Hi there
Of course - please feel free to use anything I‘ve written if it can be of any help (or to make changes it so it sounds better ! )
I go with everything that our extremely knowledgeable and experienced Kwik‘s been saying.
I‘ve used Zyklene as a calming aid on and off with my little skittish kitty in an attempt to help her through the first weeks and months in trying to transition her from a terrified Greek street cat to a more comfortable, content and cozy cuddle cat here in Germany. Zyklene is based on the milk protein, casein, is lactose free and is said to have calming properties. I have no idea if it helped or not, but my kitty is doing very well . When I used it I just opened a capsule and sprinkled it on her food. She seemed to like the (probably milky) taste. It was even available on amazon here. Gabapentin sounds like the best deal though if required in terms of short term effectivity.
Oh by the way have you seen this video on Youtube from an English lady, Tiffany Dodd, who does amazing work with cat rescues? In this video she rehabilitates a supposedly aggressive Siamese (who had come from a very difficult background). This cat does seem more challenging than Lisa to start, but it may br interesting to watch how the cat progresses with the patience and love provided.
Sending you the very best of wishes from the Frankfurt area and a happy New Year 2024 - may all your wishes come true!
Best of luck - I‘m sure Lisa will be a great companion for the right person.

Thank you for your support! Zyklene is good-I used it in the past for our timid rescue cat, but have completely forgotten about it I have ordered today.

The video is very helpful: I always try to learn about the re-assuring body language that could help and the lady shows plenty of it ( i click on the link to Youtube to watch it).
I keep observing Lisa and noticed that sometimes when we enter her room she looks worried as if she does not recognise us. We then just talk to her in gentle voice and calmly, before moving towards her, or usually she comes to us herself.
Its like if she is unsure what to expect from us. So much past trauma for such a sweet cat
And yes- with every dat I am more and more convinced that the foster mum was probably not a right person for her due to her fear of Lisa from the beginning.

A possibility of hearing difficulties was mentioned in this thread- this is not our case as I talk to her sometimes through the web camera and she definitely hears me

I have decided just to live through the fireworks. I will let you know.

I wish everyone on here a Happy New Year and may all your wishes come true

 

[Aldel]

Eurocat the video won't play,it says " unavailable " disabled by the owner- I'm not good at that stuff( internet stuff/conputers(;so I'm not sure if is just me- lol

Hi, if plays for me. Have you tried to click on the link to Youtube? ( I have attached a screenshot)

 

[Kwik]

Hi, if plays for me. Have you tried to click on the link to Youtube? ( I have attached a screenshot)

No,thank you for that I'm an antique,lol I'm glad to get on TCS,I bought my 1st computer 10 years ago to join a particular Forum & thats my extensive tech knowledge rofl

Can use all the help I can get


Happy New Year to you ,your hubby ,Lisa ... and who are your kitties? Got any photos,love to see them

 

[Eurocat]

Hi Kwik
Alternatively if you go into you tube and just search „Tiffany Dodd“ then her video „Cat Rescue - a desperately dangerous situation“. She has a couple of touching and interesting videos up. Lovely lady.
Wishing you, everyone here and all our furry friends lots of health and happiness for the new year 2024

 

[Kwik]

Hey guys '-I love this lady,I couldn't believe she uses welded wire kennels panels exsctly the same as I do! And she works just like I do wihh the swats,,swipes and hisses,lol Just carry on like nothing is happening -rofl

It's so funny,After like the 2nd or 3rd day I didn't really want to watch anymore and I was about to turn it off and noticed Max,Timmy and Sami were on my right and left watching the video- they couldn't take their eyes off Madonna---- so I let them watch the entire video- how cute is that?

The moral of the story is- love conquers all,everytime!

Happy New Year to you too Eurocat I really like MsDodd,very sweet

 

[Aldel]

No,thank you for that I'm an antique,lol I'm glad to get on TCS,I bought my 1st computer 10 years ago to join a particular Forum & thats my extensive tech knowledge rofl

Can use all the help I can get


Happy New Year to you ,your hubby ,Lisa ... and who are your kitties? Got any photos,love to see them

Thank you so much and a very Happy New Year to you! ( and your little friends too- what are their names?)
Greetings from my crowd : Alice, Misa, Goldfish ( the name was given by an animal charity in the UK)

 

[Kwik]

Thank you so much and a very Happy New Year to you! ( and your little friends too- what are their names?)
Greetings from my crowd : Alice, Misa, Goldfish ( the name was given by an animal charity in the UK)

I love your babies'-they are adorable,they look like they are very sweet little darlings

Mine ( oldest first from 7 to 2yrs old)Timmy,Graycie,Bella,Sami and Max

Max behind Timmy

Graycie

Bella in front of Sami

 

[Kwik]

Couldn't get tye last one in right but Bella is the Tortie
Sami is a Bengal- I'll find a better photo of him for you

 

[Aldel]

I love your babies'-they are adorable,they look like they are very sweet little darlings

Mine ( oldest first from 7 to 2yrs old)Timmy,Graycie,Bella,Sami and MaxView attachment 466846
Max behind Timmy
View attachment 466847
Graycie
View attachment 466848
Bella in front of Sami

Thank you

Your babies are also sweet and adorable. Very happy New Year to all of you.

 

[Kwik]

Thank you

Your babies are also sweet and adorable. Very happy New Year to all of you.

Thank you
And a GEAT 2024 to you and your furry family

 

[Aldel]

In a meantime an update on our situation: Lisa attacked my husband’s face early afternoon today.
( Nothing to do with firework, as too early for that).

Situation: We both were in her room for about 20 minutes or so. At the beginning, when we just entered, Lisa seemed uneasy, but we spoke to her calmly and low voice and waited at the door a bit to give her a chance to decide whether she wanted to interact. My husband then sat on the floor near the doorway and Lisa came to him purring, wanting to cuddle and was very affectionate. We sat together on the bed with her for some minutes, then he took her litter box to clean and I doen the usual routine ( changed her food, opened the window to allow some fresh air in- she came to seat on it, and the went to her food).
She ate a bit while we were sitting on the bed, then came back to us. My husband then played with her for some minutes with a teaser rod toy which she enjoyed, and I was setting up her crate to be more conformable.

My husband then noticed that she did not seem to be interested anymore and suggested us to leave her to have a rest.

I agreed but decided just to put a couple of toys in her crate for later on. As all of the toys were under the bed, I tried to reach out for one and was talking to my husband at the same time.
At that moment Lisa turned around at the sound of my voice, she saw my face at the level of her face, almost in front of it. She suddenly looked very scared, her face expression changed as if she did not recognise me, she hissed and jumped on her feet. I have also slowly rose to my feet at the same time, and she started moving towards me trying to look at my eyes and hissing. I avoided eye contact as I know it irritates her, was looking sideway and preparing to leave.

At the moment my husband, who was still sitting on the bed behind Lisa, said “now she hissed” and tried to distract her with a toy. She quickly turned to him, screamed loudly and went for his face. He managed to catch one of her paws, hold it for a second or to, rose to his feet and let her go. She did not bite him or made any further attempts to scratch or to follow us, so we left the room and closed locked the door.
I checked her on web cam 5-10 minutes later-she was playing with her toys as nothing happened.

We entered the room an hour later to install the second web- she was friendly and happy again, especially to my husband. She kept trying to establish eye contact, but I have decided to skip it until I know how correctly to behave. We left after some minutes while she was eating.

So, now I an trying to analyze the whole thing. Our interpretation is :
1. Lisa does not trust us yet hence we a bit overwhelmed her with the prolonged contact (?) even though she seemed to enjoy it.
2. She was in a hunter mode and did not realise I was so close, confused me with something / someone else ( predator? previois owner??) and charged at me.
3 She then heard my husbands voice, realised her was right behind, felt herself “trapped” between two beasts and charged at him. ( or carried anger??)

Questions: how shall we behave with her after this episode? Shall we carry on as nothing has happened?
And is there a way to teach Lisa to run away from a potential threat rather than to attack as a first choice.
I would really like to help her and also to her next owner by giving a good advice for set-back situations.

Sorry, this is not the message I was hoping to write, but we are where we are. The good news is that we saw an episode of aggression with our own eyes. ( The bad news is is that one of us coukd have lost one of his eyes in the process)

 

[Kwik]

In a meantime an update on our situation: Lisa attacked my husband’s face early afternoon today.
( Nothing to do with firework, as too early for that).

Situation: We both were in her room for about 20 minutes or so. At the beginning, when we just entered, Lisa seemed uneasy, but we spoke to her calmly and low voice and waited at the door a bit to give her a chance to decide whether she wanted to interact. My husband then sat on the floor near the doorway and Lisa came to him purring, wanting to cuddle and was very affectionate. We sat together on the bed with her for some minutes, then he took her litter box to clean and I doen the usual routine ( changed her food, opened the window to allow some fresh air in- she came to seat on it, and the went to her food).
She ate a bit while we were sitting on the bed, then came back to us. My husband then played with her for some minutes with a teaser rod toy which she enjoyed, and I was setting up her crate to be more conformable.

My husband then noticed that she did not seem to be interested anymore and suggested us to leave her to have a rest.

I agreed but decided just to put a couple of toys in her crate for later on. As all of the toys were under the bed, I tried to reach out for one and was talking to my husband at the same time.
At that moment Lisa turned around at the sound of my voice, she saw my face at the level of her face, almost in front of it. She suddenly looked very scared, her face expression changed as if she did not recognise me, she hissed and jumped on her feet. I have also slowly rose to my feet at the same time, and she started moving towards me trying to look at my eyes and hissing. I avoided eye contact as I know it irritates her, was looking sideway and preparing to leave.

At the moment my husband, who was still sitting on the bed behind Lisa, said “now she hissed” and tried to distract her with a toy. She quickly turned to him, screamed loudly and went for his face. He managed to catch one of her paws, hold it for a second or to, rose to his feet and let her go. She did not bite him or made any further attempts to scratch or to follow us, so we left the room and closed locked the door.
I checked her on web cam 5-10 minutes later-she was playing with her toys as nothing happened.

We entered the room an hour later to install the second web- she was friendly and happy again, especially to my husband. She kept trying to establish eye contact, but I have decided to skip it until I know how correctly to behave. We left after some minutes while she was eating.

So, now I an trying to analyze the whole thing. Our interpretation is :
1. Lisa does not trust us yet hence we a bit overwhelmed her with the prolonged contact (?) even though she seemed to enjoy it.
2. She was in a hunter mode and did not realise I was so close, confused me with something / someone else ( predator? previois owner??) and charged at me.
3 She then heard my husbands voice, realised her was right behind, felt herself “trapped” between two beasts and charged at him. ( or carried anger??)

Questions: how shall we behave with her after this episode? Shall we carry on as nothing has happened?
And is there a way to teach Lisa to run away from a potential threat rather than to attack as a first choice.
I would really like to help her and also to her next owner by giving a good advice for set-back situations.

Sorry, this is not the message I was hoping to write, but we are where we are. The good news is that we saw an episode of aggression with our own eyes. ( The bad news is is that one of us coukd have lost one of his eyes in the process)

Well I'd rule out hunting instinct because that's typically cats going for legs n feet..... the face leads me to believe ( now understand I've not seen her in action so I'm speculating)that this cst was taken early or abandon by its mother cat and not taught any manners which,if not addresses properly and nipped in the bud often leads to a mean or violent kitty kat- can it be corrected and the cat be a trustworthy compsnion,yes unless there's some underlying idiopathic mental or physical condition

My guess is as I mentioned,too early from momma which isn't so terrible but onto a very inexperienced person who was actually fearful of her and msybe even abusive- sounds like she is extremely fearful ahd changes in environment intensify this behavior.... it's learned behavior imo,defensive response to fear

It's certainly not " out of nowhere" - I've known cats like this - one waa abused ,left alone for most the day snd when they displayed undesirable behavior the owner yelled at hissed at him- he would lunge for the face to get the source of contention

And no,she's not angry,cats don't get angry and are not emotional- in her brain she's prompted to react violently out of fear

Btw,I didn't train or recondition the cat I mentioned,I did not have the time required so the next stop they considered was euthanasia becausd the shelter wouldnt take her,too unpredictable... a colleague of mine felt so sorry for the cat that she took him home ( I believe he was 5 or 6)- she had that silly cat for over a decade,delightful boy and oddly enough he died of an aneurysm- I always suspected something wrong with his brain! But she did correct the aggression

 

[Kwik]

Unless someone has the experience( ACAAB or a CAAB) possibly?I would not recommend Lisa for adoption by someone who does not understand or has worked with aggressive behavior and thsts without doing an observation assessment....I don't know how the org you are fostering for works but perhaps they have working cat programs,has she always been an inside cat?I'm sort of thinking out loud here

 

[Aldel]

Well I'd rule out hunting instinct because that's typically cats going for legs n feet..... the face leads me to believe ( now understand I've not seen her in action so I'm speculating)that this cst was taken early or abandon by its mother cat and not taught any manners which,if not addresses properly and nipped in the bud often leads to a mean or violent kitty kat- can it be corrected and the cat be a trustworthy compsnion,yes unless there's some underlying idiopathic mental or physical condition

My guess is as I mentioned,too early from momma which isn't so terrible but onto a very inexperienced person who was actually fearful of her and msybe even abusive- sounds like she is extremely fearful ahd changes in environment intensify this behavior.... it's learned behavior imo,defensive response to fear

It's certainly not " out of nowhere" - I've known cats like this - one waa abused ,left alone for most the day snd when they displayed undesirable behavior the owner yelled at hissed at him- he would lunge for the face to get the source of contention

And no,she's not angry,cats don't get angry and are not emotional- in her brain she's prompted to react violently out of fear

Btw,I didn't train or recondition the cat I mentioned,I did not have the time required so the next stop they considered was euthanasia becausd the shelter wouldnt take her,too unpredictable... a colleague of mine felt so sorry for the cat that she took him home ( I believe he was 5 or 6)- she had that silly cat for over a decade,delightful boy and oddly enough he died of an aneurysm- I always suspected something wrong with his brain! But she did correct the aggression

Thank you for your quick response!
Unfortunately almost nothing is known about Lisa’s past. I am certain that she was abused (we know for sire that that she was locked in a bathroom for entire days and that she was brought for euthanasia). what should one do to cat that that a poor thing had such a terrible fear!

I have noticed that she has a fear of changes in her surrounding: she refused to walk through the hallway yesterday only because we left a couple of shopping bags in there.
She was always an indoor cat.

I feel so sorry for her. The charity I am fostering for is a small one, they do not have any behaviour therapists. I will see if I can find one myself, but with very little time I have I am not sure what we will be able to achieve.

Experience with /understanding of aggressive behaviour is the must for the potential owner. I just hope one can be found. 🥹

 

[Kwik]

Thank you for your quick response!
Unfortunately almost nothing is known about Lisa’s past. I am certain that she was abused (we know for sire that that she was locked in a bathroom for entire days and that she was brought for euthanasia). what should one do to cat that that a poor thing had such a terrible fear!

I have noticed that she has a fear of changes in her surrounding: she refused to walk through the hallway yesterday only because we left a couple of shopping bags in there.
She was always an indoor cat.

I feel so sorry for her. The charity I am fostering for is a small one, they do not have any behaviour therapists. I will see if I can find one myself, but with very little time I have I am not sure what we will be able to achieve.

Experience with /understanding of aggressive behaviour is the must for the potential owner. I just hope one can be found. 🥹

Can I ask where you are? You can pm me if you'd rather not say publically-I prefer Forum talk for accountability and confirmation from others in agreement ,sort of like " well,if everyone says so- it's probably GOOD advice "

But your welcome to msg me

 

[price053]

Like Kwik said, it was in the very beginning that she started to feel this way . It had to of started with the first owner, and being locked in a bathroom all day sucks as a human, let alone a kitty, or any animal.
My Bella stays in a room a lot but that is because mine are not ready for a face to face. Yet she does have a window and bed and just a place to feel safe and lounge. I do spend as much time with her as I can, so at least its not a bathroom.. I have so much empathy for Lisa she has not had it easy. You and your husband are so sweet to risk pain in order to help this pretty little girl.
Thank you both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[price053]

In a meantime an update on our situation: Lisa attacked my husband’s face early afternoon today.
( Nothing to do with firework, as too early for that).

Situation: We both were in her room for about 20 minutes or so. At the beginning, when we just entered, Lisa seemed uneasy, but we spoke to her calmly and low voice and waited at the door a bit to give her a chance to decide whether she wanted to interact. My husband then sat on the floor near the doorway and Lisa came to him purring, wanting to cuddle and was very affectionate. We sat together on the bed with her for some minutes, then he took her litter box to clean and I doen the usual routine ( changed her food, opened the window to allow some fresh air in- she came to seat on it, and the went to her food).
She ate a bit while we were sitting on the bed, then came back to us. My husband then played with her for some minutes with a teaser rod toy which she enjoyed, and I was setting up her crate to be more conformable.

My husband then noticed that she did not seem to be interested anymore and suggested us to leave her to have a rest.

I agreed but decided just to put a couple of toys in her crate for later on. As all of the toys were under the bed, I tried to reach out for one and was talking to my husband at the same time.
At that moment Lisa turned around at the sound of my voice, she saw my face at the level of her face, almost in front of it. She suddenly looked very scared, her face expression changed as if she did not recognise me, she hissed and jumped on her feet. I have also slowly rose to my feet at the same time, and she started moving towards me trying to look at my eyes and hissing. I avoided eye contact as I know it irritates her, was looking sideway and preparing to leave.

At the moment my husband, who was still sitting on the bed behind Lisa, said “now she hissed” and tried to distract her with a toy. She quickly turned to him, screamed loudly and went for his face. He managed to catch one of her paws, hold it for a second or to, rose to his feet and let her go. She did not bite him or made any further attempts to scratch or to follow us, so we left the room and closed locked the door.
I checked her on web cam 5-10 minutes later-she was playing with her toys as nothing happened.

We entered the room an hour later to install the second web- she was friendly and happy again, especially to my husband. She kept trying to establish eye contact, but I have decided to skip it until I know how correctly to behave. We left after some minutes while she was eating.

So, now I an trying to analyze the whole thing. Our interpretation is :
1. Lisa does not trust us yet hence we a bit overwhelmed her with the prolonged contact (?) even though she seemed to enjoy it.
2. She was in a hunter mode and did not realise I was so close, confused me with something / someone else ( predator? previois owner??) and charged at me.
3 She then heard my husbands voice, realised her was right behind, felt herself “trapped” between two beasts and charged at him. ( or carried anger??)

Questions: how shall we behave with her after this episode? Shall we carry on as nothing has happened?
And is there a way to teach Lisa to run away from a potential threat rather than to attack as a first choice.
I would really like to help her and also to her next owner by giving a good advice for set-back situations.

Sorry, this is not the message I was hoping to write, but we are where we are. The good news is that we saw an episode of aggression with our own eyes. ( The bad news is is that one of us coukd have lost one of his eyes in the process)

bless his heart...