Day-Old Abandoned Litter of Five

[dustytiger]

Hi, so I found a box of abandoned baby kittens that are probably less than a day old. They were in the box under a pile of old clothes and on top of some sink parts. I'm certain there wasn't a mother around as they were already starving and the makeshift nest someone had put them in showed no signs of ever having had a mother cat laying with them. Anyway, I took the five kittens to the vet, he told me they were technically healthy save for the fact that they were starving and explained bottle feeding and so on. My main concern right now, however, is that I already have an indoor cat and I'm worried she might do something to them.

I've taken steps to keep them separated, but with all the time and attention these babies need I'm worried it might get difficult to make sure she stays out of the room I have them in seeing as she's already curious about them and she's pretty crafty about getting into places she doesn't belong.

Would it be okay to show her them or try to introduce them? If so, how should I go about it? I tried googling to see if female cats would kill newborn babies, but all I got was information about male cats killing babies that didn't belong to them and sometimes their own kittens.

Any tips? Suggestions?

 

[ondine]

Until you know they are healthy, I would hold off introducing them.  They may have germs she hasn't met yet.  For that matter, she may have germs they aren't ready to fight off.

Let them grow and get a little heathier first.  This is going to take a lot of dedication on your part.  They will need to be kept warm, so if you have a hot water bottle, Bed Buddy or something else of that nature, you can use that to keep their nest warm.  Just make sure they can't touch it directly.  And of course, bottle feeding five kittens is going to be a full-time job!

I think your cat will be fine with them when the intros are done.  Most female (and some male) cats take to babies pretty quickly.  We have a cat with her own room (because she hates our other cats).  Yet I had a foster who was only three weeks old when I got her and the only place we had to keep her was in Teresa's room.  When I introduced them, Teresa was puzzled but fascinated.  She mothered that kitten like a champ.

Bless you for helping them!

 

[dustytiger]

Thank you! I shall take your advice. I was kind of hoping somewhere in my heart that maybe she might somehow have a maternal instinct awakened in her and maybe like the little ones (perhaps even going so far as to lick/clean them and stay beside them.) but I guess that was kind of an unrealistic hope. 

Not to worry, though! I have a fair amount of experience raising kittens myself--granted it was never as many as five kittens-- but I know a thing or two about them. They're in a snug little box with a hot bottle wrapped in a towel that I reheat for them every feeding time (so every two hours) and have clean towels layered under them and around the edges of the box to keep them snug. Though, I must admit, it IS super tiring bottle-feeding five kittens, but I made some charts to keep things organized.

Hopefully once I make certain they are healthy and old enough to see my other cat, she'll be welcoming towards them.

Once again, thank you!

 

[StefanZ]

 
Hi, so I found a box of abandoned baby kittens that are probably less than a day old. They were in the box under a pile of old clothes and on top of some sink parts. I'm certain there wasn't a mother around as they were already starving and the makeshift nest someone had put them in showed no signs of ever having had a mother cat laying with them. Anyway, I took the five kittens to the vet, he told me they were technically healthy save for the fact that they were starving and explained bottle feeding and so on. My main concern right now, however, is that I already have an indoor cat and I'm worried she might do something to them.

I've taken steps to keep them separated, but with all the time and attention these babies need I'm worried it might get difficult to make sure she stays out of the room I have them in seeing as she's already curious about them and she's pretty crafty about getting into places she doesn't belong.

Would it be okay to show her them or try to introduce them? If so, how should I go about it? I tried googling to see if female cats would kill newborn babies, but all I got was information about male cats killing babies that didn't belong to them and sometimes their own kittens.

Any tips? Suggestions?

Im writing.   Hold on.

I will also ask a mod to move this thread to our Preg and Kitten forums, where all such care of orphans etc do get.

Im there too.

 

[StefanZ]

Ok, I see you are on good way, you having some previous knowledge, and also, the vet showing you some tricks.  Good - because faulty food giving is quite dangerous!

I understand also, they do eat the bottle without problems.  Sometimes its easier with a syringe, but if it goes nicely with a bottle, proceed with it.

Also, they suckling bottle shows they CAN suckle bottle.  Some weak or deformed kittens cant...  But they here can and do.

Your giving them bottle isnt so bad as it sounds.  You will not have the same problem in big litters with the almost obligatory runt, whom is shoved off the best nipples, and becuse of that, dont gets enough milk...

But get yourself a scale measuring in grammes, you you can follow if fthey gain properly or not.

What kmr brand are you giving them?

You do stimulate them to pee and poo, and burp them afterwards?

If they were in a cardboard box, they were prob not  ferale, but dumped by the owner of a family girl.   We shall be happy they were dumped where it was possible to find them, and not in the middle of woods..

Re using your resident as  foster mom.  Its as Ondine says.  It has some risks.   So most rescuers dont take chances, they raise the orphans themselves, even if they DO have a villing cat,  not to risk any contagions.

But there are risks, and there are risks.    As said, I suspect they arent from a ferale mom, they are from a family girl - although not optimally cared for.

How is it,  is she [your resident girl] fully healthy?  Is she fully vaccinated with the core vaccination; - I dont remember the Short name, but it is against distemper, cat flu and cat calici-virus.

Is she used to go utside?

Perhaps even ex rescued herself?

If yes to three of these four questions, you can probably take a calculated risk, and let them meet, and see if she will adopt them.

If you do it, you can try and give them some smell of her, or at least - of you, her beloved Ma/Dad.

Not totally riskfree, but.

If there are any Nos, or you dont want to take risk, play it safe and do as Ondine suggests.

A good and nice site for caring for orphans is www.kitten-rescue.com.   Its made by Hissy, one of our long time Forum veterans.

We have too some articles here on the TCS site.

Please continue with reports and questions.

Good luck!

 

[dustytiger]

Thank you for all your feedback and suggestions!

I'll see if I can get my hands on a scale to weigh them. It would really take a lot off the stress away if I could see that they're gaining weight and growing properly, honestly. So far they all seem to be doing much better than when I found them. I've been feeding them and stimulating them to pee and poo every two to hours, as well as burping them. There was a really small one I was worried about at first because it was so quiet, but today it's really energetic so I'm quite optimistic!

Honestly, I could already tell that they probably weren't a stray cat's kittens. The park where I found them is a very popular kitten-dumping area, and this isn't the first time we've had to rescue kittens before. In the past we have taken in and re-homed five other kittens (Two from one litter, two from another litter and one that sprung up all on its own.) who have appeared in the park area and managed to get them homes, but they weren't normally this young when we'd find them in the boxes. They'd usually be dumped there at a much older age, around three or four weeks, fully able to eat and walk by themselves. These ones looked like they were probably born the day or night previous to when they were found.

I took them to another vet today (one I trust more than the one I took them to when I first found them) and he said they were fine, but one of them looked as though it might have a virus or worms, so honestly your advice to be cautious about letting them near my indoor cat has really saved me from possibly getting her sick. Thank you so much! I've separated the sick kitten from the others. I'm a little worried about it, but it is eating, pooing and peeing well, as well as very big an energetic, so I still have high hopes for its recovery. The vet said that I should just do my best and not take it too hard on myself if the sick one dies because there's nothing he can do for it at this age, but honestly I really want to make sure they all live and stay healthy.

Thing is, one vet told me that they might be a few days old, while the other vet told me they might be a week or two old. I've taken a picture of them and I was wondering if anyone here might have a better idea of how old they might be,

20150205_014609_resized.jpg

• dustytiger
• Feb 5, 2015

that is a picture of them taken shortly after I'd found them and transferred them into a clean box. Personally, from my previous experience with kittens I'd say they're hardly a two or three days old, but after my vet said that they might be at two weeks I'm not very sure. Any ideas? I'm just a little worried because I'm assuming that they'd have to eat more if they're older.

Edit: Oh, also, I forgot to mention that I'm feeding them Pets Own, lactose free milk. 

 

[StefanZ]

I dont see them well on my so so monitor, but still, I dont get the impression of new borns.  So either they were born unusually big, or they do have perhaps a week.

 their weigh could give a hint, counting an average newborn for 100 grammes, and adding 10 grammes a day... It can be more with healthy kittens, but still.

 

[biancavd]

They look to me like around 5 days to a week old. Their eyes seem to be still closed, and those open around 7-10 days.

 

[dustytiger]

I'm going to hopefully find something to weigh them soon, but if they seem to be older than a day or two, how much should I be feeding them? So far I've been giving them 1.5 ml every two hours and while the vet said to be careful not to overfeed them, I really do feel like they want more than that. Most of them sort of settle down after feeding and nestle around the warm water bottle, but two of the bigger ones stay kinda feisty.

 

[StefanZ]

 
I'm going to hopefully find something to weigh them soon, but if they seem to be older than a day or two, how much should I be feeding them? So far I've been giving them 1.5 ml every two hours and while the vet said to be careful not to overfeed them, I really do feel like they want more than that. Most of them sort of settle down after feeding and nestle around the warm water bottle, but two of the bigger ones stay kinda feisty.

That doesnt sound as enough much.  8ml / ounce, say they are 120 grammes apiece (they are prob more as they arent totally newborn, but say). 8x4 is 32 ml a day.  You feed them every 2 hours, 12 feedings.   Already here we get about 2,5 ml each time.

And if you give them every three hours, 8x, it should be 4ml each time.

They seems thus on the verge of being undernourished!!!

That with not overfeeding is "thruth with modification".  With weak kittens who barely swallow, yes, you must be very careful.  Small portions, but may be more often if necessary.

You dont want them to get fluid in wrong throat, refluxes are almost even more dangerous - may too get into wrong throat, and this time together with the contender of stomach...

But decently healthy kittens, who swallow actively, are difficult to overfeed.  If you are normally careful and do burp them.

So, for a start, the first time, yes be careful. But when you notice next time they are now more strong, can take more - be sure they get more.  If you are hesitating; small portions but more often.

Good luck!

 

[di and bob]

You will be blessed for taking in these poor babies, it had to have been a miracle to find them before it was too late. I don't know what kind of monster can dump those precious little things, but I hope it comes back to haunt them.

  I'll pray that you get through the next few weeks and that your cat will accept them and teach them what they need to know. All the luck, we're here if you need some support!

 

[dustytiger]

Thank you all for your support! Honestly, I'm quite shocked that both the vets I took them to didn't give me correct instructions as to the amount that they should be fed. It's disappointing because I feel like they might not be as reliable as I'd hoped, which also worries me considering the situation these kittens are in. I've been slowly raising the amount I give them every two hours to 4 ml, and they do seem to be in better condition. They're now all very vocal and have even become tiny little climbers trying to get out of their box! The smallest one started purring today and it was by far the most adorable little sound. It's been a tough few days, but that little sound really makes all the struggle worth it.

I managed to get my hands on a scale, though, and their weights were as follows,

Big Tabby-- 120g

Big Black-- 118g

Small Tabby--110g

Black and white- 110g

Small Black-- 100g

The small black one is also the sick one, which I'm most worried about. It drinks all the milk I give it quite enthusiastically, and seems to be getting better bit by bit, but it still remains smaller than all its siblings and visibly less energetic. It's not too quiet or still, and it does have a lot of fight in it (scratching, climbing, meowing very loudly) but not as much as the rest. I'm honestly not sure what I can do for it. Should I be feeding it more than the others? Or maybe small amounts more frequently?

 

[StefanZ]

 
Thank you all for your support! Honestly, I'm quite shocked that both the vets I took them to didn't give me correct instructions as to the amount that they should be fed. It's disappointing because I feel like they might not be as reliable as I'd hoped, which also worries me considering the situation these kittens are in. I've been slowly raising the amount I give them every two hours to 4 ml, and they do seem to be in better condition. They're now all very vocal and have even become tiny little climbers trying to get out of their box! The smallest one started purring today and it was by far the most adorable little sound. It's been a tough few days, but that little sound really makes all the struggle worth it.

I managed to get my hands on a scale, though, and their weights were as follows,

Big Tabby-- 120g

Big Black-- 118g

Small Tabby--110g

Black and white- 110g

Small Black-- 100g

The small black one is also the sick one, which I'm most worried about. It drinks all the milk I give it quite enthusiastically, and seems to be getting better bit by bit, but it still remains smaller than all its siblings and visibly less energetic. It's not too quiet or still, and it does have a lot of fight in it (scratching, climbing, meowing very loudly) but not as much as the rest. I'm honestly not sure what I can do for it. Should I be feeding it more than the others? Or maybe small amounts more frequently?

Ouch.  These weight would be nice and normal for newborns.  So they either ARE as you said,  newborn.  Or they were undernourished.

They could also be smallish at the birth.  If healthy and not premature, they could survive even being smallish.

But we can be sure they are somewhat undernourished.

And thus, I want to think, they will be better and better now when you had increased their feedings, and getting also more routined at this....

Continue to weigh them at least once a day.

For the smallest perhaps even twice a day, till you are sure he has stabilized.  He shall gain minimun 6-8 grammes a day.   And yes, giving him more often may be wise.  If he takes, swallowing actively, do so.

The bigger ones, more robust, should gain 10+ a day.

Re the vets.  Its easy to say many vet dont know much about the care of small kittens.  Its mostly vets cooperating much with rescuers, and or with breedeers, who are good at kitten care. The others - often not.

But I think they gave you adequate advices.  But advices not for what will happen in the next week, but what will happen today, to go through the immediate crisis.

You coming in to him with weak, chilled kittens, whom  were probably too weak to swallow actively.   In such situations the rule is small portions, but may be often.

Increasing the portions you do as next step.

Im happy it goes in the positive direction!

Good luck!

 

[dustytiger]

Thank you for all your help!

I'm a little worried they don't seem to be gaining any weight in spite of the increase in food I've been giving them. I waited 24 hours to weigh them again and all their weights are exactly the same. I'm not sure what's wrong. They're all eating, peeing and pooing well, very energetic and vocal. I have no idea what could be happening. 

 

[StefanZ]

 
Thank you for all your help!

I'm a little worried they don't seem to be gaining any weight in spite of the increase in food I've been giving them. I waited 24 hours to weigh them again and all their weights are exactly the same. I'm not sure what's wrong. They're all eating, peeing and pooing well, very energetic and vocal. I have no idea what could be happening. 

CAN it be some fault you do with weighting?

Otherwise, I too Im stuck.  If everything seems OK, done as it should, and yet they dont gain=   And gain they must.  Its imperative.

Did you told exactly which kmr you do use

If not, next try I propose shall be goat milk.   OR a change in the goat milk...

 

[catapault]

Could it be something with the scale? As my husband is fond of saying - if all else fails, read the manual. If you don't have a manual, grab a couple of smaller items from your cupboard that have their weight listed on on their labels. See how the stated weight compares to the readings on your scale.

I agree with @StefanZ that if the kittens are eating well there's something very peculiar if their weight remains unchanged.

 

[dustytiger]

I've been using Pets Own lactose free milk. You both are right, though, the scale does seem to have something wrong with it. It shows everything that isn't VERY heavy as either 80 or around 120 when the weight on the package is 66g or 100g. I think I'm going to have to look for a better scale. I don't know if I should be relieved or worried.

I've noticed today, however, that the little black one has been struggling to stay awake during its feeding. Towards the end of the 4ml it'll stop sucking with just a few fractions of it left and either fall asleep with it in its mouth or start purring. Should I be worried about it? One of its other siblings --the big black one-- also seems a little tired out towards the end of its feeding, but doesn't go so far as to fall asleep while I'm holding it and finishes suckling fairly quickly. The rest are all usually quite energetic for at least 5-10 minutes after eating before settling down by the reheated hot water bottle, but these two will go to curl up by it almost immediately after eating. Is this a bad sign, or do some kittens just like sleeping after/towards the end of their feeding? Honestly, I'm still most worried about the little black one. One day it seems very energetic and affectionate, then the next it seems quiet and sleepy.

 

[StefanZ]

 
I've been using Pets Own lactose free milk. You both are right, though, the scale does seem to have something wrong with it. It shows everything that isn't VERY heavy as either 80 or around 120 when the weight on the package is 66g or 100g. I think I'm going to have to look for a better scale. I don't know if I should be relieved or worried.

I've noticed today, however, that the little black one has been struggling to stay awake during its feeding. Towards the end of the 4ml it'll stop sucking with just a few fractions of it left and either fall asleep with it in its mouth or start purring. Should I be worried about it? One of its other siblings --the big black one-- also seems a little tired out towards the end of its feeding, but doesn't go so far as to fall asleep while I'm holding it and finishes suckling fairly quickly. The rest are all usually quite energetic for at least 5-10 minutes after eating before settling down by the reheated hot water bottle, but these two will go to curl up by it almost immediately after eating. Is this a bad sign, or do some kittens just like sleeping after/towards the end of their feeding? Honestly, I'm still most worried about the little black one. One day it seems very energetic and affectionate, then the next it seems quiet and sleepy.

AFAIK  this is no  real kmr, its really a treat.  Surely better than nothing, and safer than cow milk, but its not supposed to be used as orphan kittens mother replacement milk.

Can you get goat milk?  Some full fat variation.  Walmart  and the like uses to carry it.  Or you can surely find some useful kmr if you seek a little. Although dont buy Hartz - Hartz has a very uneven reputation.

That them geing sleepy at the end of the feeding - it may be entirely normal, showing the 4ml portions is just exact what they need at this moment, even a trifle too much.

BUT it may be a signt, they are weakish, and get tired too soon.

As this milk you are giving them, is not proper kmr,  I suspect they arent strong enough..

So the red flag Alert situation stays on.   Especielly for that sleepy little blackie.

Good luck!

 

[catapault]

I have an Oxo digital scale. It's very sensitive and seems quite reliable. Easy to toggle between grams and ounces when weighing something. Can put a bowl on the scale, zero it out, and just weigh the contents.

And when you weigh them do it at the same time every day, probably just before you feed them is better. I've been trying to lose weight. Things have gone south because it's winter and I cannot get out to garden. But I get more reliable results for day-to-day comparison if I do it as soon as I get up and after going to the bathroom. Just my morning coffee raises the reading on the scale.

The smallest kitten does have its siblings to cuddle with. But might you consider - every now and then - tucking him to your chest (under your shirt) and let him snuggle there listening to your heart beat. I'm sure it would be very soothing.

Every single day makes a great improvement. You are doing good in your care for them. And they're doing good thanks to your care for them.

 

[StefanZ]

 
I've been using Pets Own lactose free milk.

Its no brand known to me - but Im not living in USA.  Googling hints it is a treat for cats and dogs, alike the quite well known "Kitten-milk" made by Whiskas.  Not any bad product by itself, but as said, not supposed to be  a kmr - unless desperate not having anything else at hand.

If Im wrong, and this product IS in fact a kmr, please correct me.

Addition written afterwards, mostly for the protocole.

I see on their homeside, they write proudly: high in proteins, low on fat.

Its surely good its high in proteins, but very bad for kittens its low in fat.  Kitten milk, and later on, kitten cat food, is typically high in fat contents...

"kitten milk"   is NOT the same as milk for kittens! kmr.

Im sorry, I hope for a lucky outcome, but I do fear for the worst.  Especielly with the weakest smallish.   He is literally starving to death.