Counter The Behavior

[Ailuros]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to the site; but not to cats. I've had 8 in my life as family friends- 3 of which I belonged to, and I've always just instinctively understood "Cat". But I seriously need some feed back on tricks for anxious kitty issues.

My partner and I recently adopted two kittens. Hans Solo and Obi-Wan Kenobi (we kept their rescue names), were litter raised and came from a local rescue organization. We brought them home at just about 10 weeks old; that was almost 2 months ago exactly. So, we now have three fur-babies in our home, including my 5 y.o. spangled short-hair, Monk. The introductions went well, and they seem to be slowly getting used to each other.

My issue is this; Solo is a troublesome boy. My first instinct was, "he is DEFINITELY not a cat for a first time cat owner", and WOW was I right. He scrounges for scraps constantly; they are all well fed, I provide dry food for all day grazing, and wet food (1/3 can), twice a day- probably time to go to a half of a can. We also have a water fountain. He wants to be on all the surfaces where 'cat' doesn't belong, i.e. food prep/eating; although I have been able to (mostly), deter him from the kitchen and coffee tables, he has now taken to jumping on the stove (super dangerous), and counters, and getting into ALL the things. He incessantly attacks Monk, who has always been a loner and is just now starting to play with Obi- who is the most chill kitten I have ever known. Thankfully, we have quelled the begging, and we don't have any potty issues, yet... If he's not being played with, or cuddling, he's getting into something he's not supposed to; and if I do put him in the 'kitty room', he meows like he is DYING, or he gets into something new and previously untouched everyday. Don't get me wrong; I am fully aware that he "iz kittehn", and needs to explore his abilities, and surroundings.

My older cat took some work, but he is well behaved. Monk stays off all food surfaces, rarely gets into the decorative shelves, and never breaks things; although we did have a hell of a time getting him to stop inappropriate peeing when he was upset. I've even been able to 'train' Monk to stand up, and to give me 'kisses' for treats. I am fully aware that what worked with one cat, may not work with another. I've tried double-stick tape on the surfaces; Solo just pulls it off, and goes back for more. I've tried a diluted vinegar spray; no change, and I DO NOT want him to become afraid of me. I've tried mama cat pheromones; we had lethargy kitties, and I'm concerned about long-term usefulness/lack of treatment issues.

I'm looking at getting him a kitty shirt, and possibly trying some cat-safe aromatherapy; and I'm looking for all the advice I can get.

Thank you for reading, and in advance for any assistance you may be able to provide.

 

[rubysmama]

Hello and welcome to TCS. Congrats on the new kittens. Do you by any chance know their histories? Like how long they were at the shelter? Or when they were taken from their mom? These days the "recommendation" is to keep kittens with their mom and siblings till 12 weeks so they have time to learn cat etiquette. So these kittens may have been taken from their mom too soon. They may also have been born to a feral mom, which could explain some of Solo's behaviour, and food obsession.

Here's a few TCS articles that might have some tips for you.

How To Set Healthy Boundaries For Your Cat
Cats And Discipline Don't Mix
How To Keep Cats Off Counters And Tables
5 Reasons To Never Spray Water On Your Cat

Also one from the Humane Society of US on how to Teach Your Kitten How to Play Nice : The Humane Society of the United States

 

[Ailuros]

The kittens were very young, with no mama kitty; possibly different litters. And yes, definitely from community clowder. Both kittens were adopted from a mixed group of 5 little ones, all close in ages, these two had been fostered together all along. One of my clients works with the organization. She was their foster mom, I’ll ask her about everything. Our other kitty doesn’t display any of these behaviors, and he is fine when we separate them, which is only one of the reasons I’m inclined to believe Solo does have some serious anxiety issues.

 

[Ailuros]

The kittens were very young, with no mama kitty; possibly different litters. And yes, definitely from community clowder. Both kittens were adopted from a mixed group of 5 little ones, all close in ages, these two had been fostered together all along. One of my clients works with the organization. She was their foster mom, I’ll ask her about everything. Our other kitty doesn’t display any of these behaviors, and he is fine when we separate them, which is only one of the reasons I’m inclined to believe Solo does have some serious anxiety issues.

Gratefully they never lived in a shelter; the fostering support that is available for cats/kittens in this area is AMAZING.

 

[rubysmama]

Sounds like they may not have been litter mates, which could explain their different personalities/behaviours. Hopefully he'll settle down as he gets older.

 

[Ailuros]

Thank you for advice. I have been reading the links (and all the links within), and I’m taking it all in.
Their foster mom is one of my clients; I’ve been doing her hair for 7 years. She’s been a foster mom in my town for at least 2x as long. I have no reason to believe that she wouldn’t fully disclose any potentially pertinent information as to the history of her fosters. She had 7 kittens that came in at the same time. 5 in one group- all Star Wars named, and a bonded pair. The origin of the kittens births remain unknown, as they were found in, and immediately rescued from a county with far less support, but a working relationship with this area. She received, and fostered them together; hence my saying “litter-raised” as opposed to “litter-mates”.

Are you familiar with, what is your experience/opinion about “thunder shirts”, or the like? Can you offer me any advice on cat-safe aromatherapies; both as deturants and soothing techniques?

And again, thank you for all of your help.

 

[rubysmama]

I've never heard of a "thunder shirt" before, so I did a quick search and see it has come up on the forum a few times. Here's links to a couple of threads where they're mentioned:

why does our home made thunder shirt work on our rescue cat Dolly?
Kitten freaking out!!!

I also don't know anything about aromatherapies for cats, other than I think it is a controversial topic, and I would suggest checking with your vet before trying any.

 

[basschick]

be careful with aromatherapy. a lot of people on the web recommend products that are actually toxic to cats.

 

[Ailuros]

be careful with aromatherapy. a lot of people on the web recommend products that are actually toxic to cats.

I've been in the beauty industry for over 20 years, and I have a huge amount of resources available to me. I would NEVER consider using a diffuser anywhere near my fur babies; what I have found is that cats are "offended" by certain odors. If I can't obtain 100%, consumable, organic essential oils, I will take things like fresh garlic, real citrus, along with fresh lavender (most from my own garden), and rub a poultice around areas (preferably vertical surfaces), that I do not want kitty's on. What I have noticed, is that their sense of smell is so sensitive that they rarely get close enough to even set one paw on the any of the 'rubbed' surfaces; which essentially (no pun intended), is the goal.
The caveat here, is that this takes time, and consistency.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I will take things like fresh garlic, real citrus, along with fresh lavender (most from my own garden), and rub a poultice around areas (preferably vertical surfaces), that I do not want kitty's on.

Ailuros - Do please be extremely cautious with garlic in any form around cats; depending upon a cat's body weight and physical condition, less than 2 grams can be enough to cause Hemolytic Anemia:

Garlic Poisoning in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost
.

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

.... If I can't obtain 100%, consumable, organic essential oils, I will take things like fresh garlic, real citrus, along with fresh lavender (most from my own garden), and rub a poultice around areas (preferably vertical surfaces), that I do not want kitty's on. ... .

It might be safer for garlic (toxic to cats), citrus (toxic to cats: limonene, linalool, psoralens), lavender (basically, avoid lavender essential oils, like other essential oils) to be put all inside of a glass jar and then you can just perforate the metal lid. The scent will escape out of the holes in the lid and the cat remains safe from ingesting anything accidentally.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Are things going any better I hope?
Are you 100% positive this is anxiety, and not just a typical active, spunky, never-stops-moving kitten (similar to a healthy, happy, engaged with all things around them 2 year old child)?
Cats are climbers and will go to great lengths to climb stuff. Based on your knowledge and what you've already done (especially with Monk! He sounds like a really cool cat!) I assume they have cat trees and places they're allowed to climb?

 

[Ailuros]

Ailuros - Do please be extremely cautious with garlic in any form around cats; depending upon a cat's body weight and physical condition, less than 2 grams can be enough to cause Hemolytic Anemia:

Garlic Poisoning in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost
.

Thank you. This is something that I only add to the mix for outside, ie, use around the flower beds. I’m not using anything but the juice, and ONLY in minute amounts. Less than 1ml per 100ml. Most of the cats in my life have displayed understanding that garlic is not good for them- they avoid the garlic bell like the plague.

 

[Ailuros]

Are things going any better I hope?
Are you 100% positive this is anxiety, and not just a typical active, spunky, never-stops-moving kitten (similar to a healthy, happy, engaged with all things around them 2 year old child)?
Cats are climbers and will go to great lengths to climb stuff. Based on your knowledge and what you've already done (especially with Monk! He sounds like a really cool cat!) I assume they have cat trees and places they're allowed to climb?

They are doing much better, thank you for asking. Yes, they do have all kinds of interactive stimulus; things to chase, things to climb, stuff to scratch. Kind of spoiled actually. The reasons for my believing that Solo has anxiety; he cry’s if I’m in another part of the house where he can’t get to me, he displays most of the aforementioned undesirable behaviors at those times. When I am where he can access me, I am not allowed to do anything- I have to pick him up; and if I don’t he climbs me. When we are cuddling, he CAN NOT get close enough when he is in my arms- he literally try’s to crawl into me. And his purring is not a smooth consistent, content purr; he stops when he dozes off, and will immediately start up like a Harley if he is disturbed whatsoever.
If you have reason to believe that there may be something else going on- PLEASE elucidate. Thank you again for checking in on us.

 

[1 bruce 1]

They are doing much better, thank you for asking. Yes, they do have all kinds of interactive stimulus; things to chase, things to climb, stuff to scratch. Kind of spoiled actually. The reasons for my believing that Solo has anxiety; he cry’s if I’m in another part of the house where he can’t get to me, he displays most of the aforementioned undesirable behaviors at those times. When I am where he can access me, I am not allowed to do anything- I have to pick him up; and if I don’t he climbs me. When we are cuddling, he CAN NOT get close enough when he is in my arms- he literally try’s to crawl into me. And his purring is not a smooth consistent, content purr; he stops when he dozes off, and will immediately start up like a Harley if he is disturbed whatsoever.
If you have reason to believe that there may be something else going on- PLEASE elucidate. Thank you again for checking in on us.

He sounds like my kind of cat. Bold, demanding, I like it!!
You say..."When I am where he can access me, I am not allowed to do anything- I have to pick him up; and if I don’t he climbs me." (Not allowed to do anything?)
I'm no expert and have never met him, but I've had cats like this before and they're quick and sly and train us to deliver what they want, when they want. And when we don't..."he cry’s if I’m in another part of the house where he can’t get to me, he displays most of the aforementioned undesirable behaviors at those times".
He sounds way too clever for his own good and like the youngest girl here when she was much younger. If she didn't get what she wanted, she pretty much pitched a fit like a little kid with crying, knocking things over, shredding things, etc. She was a challenge but so fun.

 

[Ailuros]

He sounds like my kind of cat. Bold, demanding, I like it!!
You say..."When I am where he can access me, I am not allowed to do anything- I have to pick him up; and if I don’t he climbs me." (Not allowed to do anything?)
I'm no expert and have never met him, but I've had cats like this before and they're quick and sly and train us to deliver what they want, when they want. And when we don't..."he cry’s if I’m in another part of the house where he can’t get to me, he displays most of the aforementioned undesirable behaviors at those times".
He sounds way too clever for his own good and like the youngest girl here when she was much younger. If she didn't get what she wanted, she pretty much pitched a fit like a little kid with crying, knocking things over, shredding things, etc. She was a challenge but so fun.

Oh, he is very much a three year old toddler! “Quick and sly” are just the tip of the iceberg. I would be of a completely different mindset if it were not for when, and the way he purrs, along with his need to be practically swaddled. Luckily, we have a few amazing cat people in our lives, who have many years experience, and quite a few feline friends between them; one grew up in a vets office. Their advice, and guidance have been an immense help, but I can’t always access them. The one friend who grew up in the veterinarians office also suggested that Solo may have some anxiety issues, without me expressing to her first that I was thinking the same. She’s had multiple cats of her own as well; all with their own issues.
We’ll keep ya posted.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Oh, he is very much a three year old toddler! “Quick and sly” are just the tip of the iceberg. I would be of a completely different mindset if it were not for when, and the way he purrs, along with his need to be practically swaddled. Luckily, we have a few amazing cat people in our lives, who have many years experience, and quite a few feline friends between them; one grew up in a vets office. Their advice, and guidance have been an immense help, but I can’t always access them. The one friend who grew up in the veterinarians office also suggested that Solo may have some anxiety issues, without me expressing to her first that I was thinking the same. She’s had multiple cats of her own as well; all with their own issues.
We’ll keep ya posted.

The outgoing crazy ones are usually the most sensitive, too, so it's only natural that he may "feel feelings" stronger. A neighbor of ours has a huge (not overweight, just a BIG CAT) male that's a total stand-offish with strangers boss cat. But if he's scared, he's SCARED and it's a very dramatic reaction. The baby cat we have is just as sensitive, if her feelings are hurt, they are hurt bad!!
It sounds like you've got it well under control, I hope you find a solution that works and everyone is happy!