Cost of Siamese kittens

catlover67 · Mar 9, 2006

Thanks!! I spotted that one at a Pet Expo in Milwaukee, WI. My husband snatched it up and wouldn't let me get one for myself. (He's kind of possessive of his "boy" Nibbley)

black&tan · Mar 9, 2006

Originally Posted by catlover67

I don't know about the UK, but here in the U.S, purebred Siamese in shelters and rescues are as common as dirt (but VERY desirable, lovable "dirt")

When I was looking for my pet girls 7 years ago, in Illinois, I could not find a shelter Siamese to save my life. I couldn't even find a breeder near me. I ended up flying both my girls from California.

There are areas in the USA where Siamese are not in shelters. The areas that have them tend to be areas where weather isn't a factor and there are alot of BYB's, who treat their cats like the common dirt you call them.

I personally have had many non siamese shelter cats over the years. I always chose to take the ones no one wanted the ones with the most bagage. After my last abused shelter cat passed, after looking for a Siamese to rescue. I finally decided I wanted a Siamese that was raised to be a loving companion from the day of its birth. There is a difference in owning a purebred Siamese companion cat that is raised in a loving home and has known bloodlines.

vampirecat · Mar 9, 2006

Nibbley is just lovely, if i can find a meezer like him i shall count myself very lucky

maverick_kitten · Mar 9, 2006

They always have siamese mixes at my local shelter. They have siamese features and personalities mainly but are different colours.

catlover67 · Mar 9, 2006

I finally decided I wanted a Siamese that was raised to be a loving companion from the day of its birth. There is a difference in owning a purebred Siamese companion cat that is raised in a loving home and has known bloodlines.

That's fine and understandable. I was lucky with Nibbley. The shelter said his owners loved him VERY much and he was well-taken care of. He is a purebred, but since I am not breeding (and never will) his bloodline makes no never mind to me as far as him being a loving companion cat.

Abyssinians are another story. I was extremely lucky to find two half-Abys in the past ten years at shelters (Autumn in my Siggy and Blondie who lives with my folks). BOTH are clearly the result of ONE full-blood Aby parent and a moggie. I love purebred Abys but 95% of ones in shelters seem to* have issues (irritable bowel syndrome, high-strung, allergies, bad ears, bad eyes, too old, etc.) I am considering going to a quality breeder for my next Aby cat. I love the breed and am thrilled with my half-Abys, but I have always dreamed of owing a purebred, but cannot find a young, mentally and physically healthy one at a regular shelters. On the rare occassion rescues get them there is a waiting list and/or the fee is ridiculously high (what a breeder would charge.)

catlover67 · Mar 9, 2006

black&tan · Mar 10, 2006

Since VampireCat came to the Breeders Corner to ask her question and not the rescue board I would like to reiterate why a certified pedigree is important to someone shopping for a Siamese cat/kitten. You are right papers themselves mean nothing to the uniformed and unfortunately this lack of education is where all those "Siamese", I use the term loosely, come from. For those who want a purebred Siamese those "papers" are the difference between a Siamese with no genetic medical conditions that will lead to a shortened lifespan and costly veterinary expense.

A registered pedigree is the main tool breeders use to trace and eliminate genetic disorders that lead to early mortality. In the Siamese breed this includes, cardiomyopathy, kidney failure, polycystic kidney disease, and mental instability (schizophrenia), and other less lethal health issues. I deal with people on a daily basis who's "Siamese" from unknown lines died of one of the above conditions at to early an age. They are heart broken and didn't realize this could have been avoided if they had gotten their cat from an ethical breeder to start with. When you buy a registered purebred from an ethical breeder you are getting their expertise with the breed. Their knowledge of what lines to avoid because they have known problems and which lines are strong and healthy.

catlover67 · Mar 12, 2006

You are right papers themselves mean nothing to the uniformed and unfortunately this lack of education is where all those "Siamese", I use the term loosely, come from.

Please don't put words in my (or anyone else's) mouth. Papers mean nothing to me because I am not interested in creating more kittens in a world already oversaturated with cats mixed or otherwise. I was interested in obtaining a rescue cat that happened to be a loving, senior Siamese in a shelter. Posters were only offering the OP another option to consider. As far as lack of education, don't generalize. Many posters know all about "fine-quality" breeders but that doesn't mean a Siamese from unknown parentage can't be healthy and genetically sound. And it doesn't mean that every quality breeder will produce genetically sound kittens.

I see your point about people who have to have a papered Siamese going to a quality breeder to pay big bucks, but others are fine with getting a Siamese as a rescue from wherever. It makes me happier to rescue a less-than perfect cat from a shelter.

To the OP, the posters were just offering you an alternative if you didn't care to spend lots of $$$ for a companion that you will never show or breed. Bad health can happen to ANY cat.

gayef · Mar 12, 2006

I don't think anyone was trying to put words in anyone else's mouth here. Of course we all have options as to where we will find our pets. No one should be judged if they prefer to adopt a mixed-breed pointed cat from a shelter. But on the other side of that same coin, no one should be judged if they prefer to purchase a pedigreed Siamese kitten from an ethical breeder either. Both avenues may have advantages just as both may have disadvantages. It is up to the individual considering this decision - they should weigh both advantages and disadvantages carefully and then decide which avenue would best suit them.

The way I read it, Black&Tan was saying that this Forum, The Breeder's Corner, is the place to discuss breeding/showing, husbandry, genetics ... all as they pertain to ~pedigreed cats~. While Rescue is not only welcomed here, they are strongly encouraged to participate and to learn from us should they choose to, unless the OP specifically asks a question or makes a comment directly related to Rescue, then perhaps it would be best for us all to stay on topic and to address the OP's original post.

gayef · Mar 12, 2006

Originally Posted by Black&Tan

A registered pedigree is the main tool breeders use to trace and eliminate genetic disorders that lead to early mortality ... I deal with people on a daily basis who's "Siamese" from unknown lines died of one of the above conditions at to early an age. They are heart broken and didn't realize this could have been avoided if they had gotten their cat from an ethical breeder to start with.

Heck, most breeders can't even tell you which lines to avoid unless they have learned the hard way which lines carry issues. And even if they can, a lot of them will not disclose to their kitten buyers because in this day of lawsuits and an almost anal obsession with being politically correct, disclosure can be construed as negative commentary, slander and/or liable. So, unless you find that perfect breeder gem among rocks who will be honest and forthright about the specific lines she breeds, in and of themselves, the pedigree documents are useless to the vast majority of potential pet kitten buyers.

vampirecat · Mar 13, 2006

Thanks for all the info.

I If i am paying Â£300 - Â£400 for a cat (any cat) I would expect to get a full pedigree and 100% health.

However I am not against going to a breed rescue centre for a siamese and taking a risk that there may be health issues at a later date. I understand that the breeders are doing there best to make sure that any un-wanted health or behavioural issues are in effect 'bred out', but there must be cases where the cat, through no fault of its own, ends up in a rescue home.

After all my 3 moggies all came from a rescue shelter.

I posted in this forum for information on the cost of a full pedigree meezer but I am also interested in giving a rescue cat a home as well. Perhaps I should have split the issue between the two forums. Sorry

white cat lover · Mar 13, 2006

Originally Posted by VampireCat

I posted in this forum for information on the cost of a full pedigree meezer but I am also interested in giving a rescue cat a home as well. Perhaps I should have split the issue between the two forums. Sorry

That would have been even more confusing!

I know nothing about pedigrees, so don't look at me there. All I have to say is I hope you find your cat/kitten! They will be lucky to have you!

mia mouse · Mar 15, 2006

Originally Posted by gayef

Heck, most breeders can't even tell you which lines to avoid unless they have learned the hard way which lines carry issues. And even if they can, a lot of them will not disclose to their kitten buyers because in this day of lawsuits and an almost anal obsession with being politically correct, disclosure can be construed as negative commentary, slander and/or liable. So, unless you find that perfect breeder gem among rocks who will be honest and forthright about the specific lines she breeds, in and of themselves, the pedigree documents are useless to the vast majority of potential pet kitten buyers.

Oh my goodness. For a breeder you seem pretty jaded. I guess you are one of those that must have learned about some lines "the hard way" as you say.

On a more general note. When I first came to the cat sites forums, there was a topic on this board that asked where do you think all the breeders went and why. I didn't understand the topic then but I do now.Geesh

gayef · Mar 15, 2006

Originally Posted by Mia mouse

Oh my goodness. For a breeder you seem pretty jaded. I guess you are one of those that must have learned about some lines "the hard way" as you say.

On a more general note. When I first came to the cat sites forums, there was a topic on this board that asked where do you think all the breeders went and why. I didn't understand the topic then but I do now.Geesh

As an individual participating in breed preservation, I have become jaded due to the large number of breeders who SAY they are in it for the betterment of the breed and who CLAIM to be all about health when the sad fact is that they breed to produce kittens - no more, no less. Kittens = money. If someone were in fact most concerned with health, then they would disclose any known issues to their potential kitten buyers. They would discuss these issues and how to eradicate them with the other breeders in their network. But they don't. They just go right on selling kittens with health issues, never bothering to inform the kitten buyers that those issues may be a problem in the future. That's why I am jaded.

I must admit, I am perplexed by the second part of your post. Are you saying that my attitude is what made other breeders leave here? Please feel free to speak honestly with me and feel confident that I will both listen and respond respectfully.

kai bengals · Mar 15, 2006

Originally Posted by Mia mouse

Oh my goodness. For a breeder you seem pretty jaded. I guess you are one of those that must have learned about some lines "the hard way" as you say.

On a more general note. When I first came to the cat sites forums, there was a topic on this board that asked where do you think all the breeders went and why. I didn't understand the topic then but I do now.Geesh

Just to interject.....the topic you are refering to was started by me. And, to be clear it wasn't directed at or about gayef. She is a valuable resource here, a genuinely nice person and in my opinion one of the good breeders.

The topic I started was a vent of sorts about an "in general" situation as I perceived it. It was based only on my own personal opinion.

mia mouse · Mar 16, 2006

Originally Posted by Mia mouse

On a more general note. When I first came to the cat sites forums, there was a topic on this board that asked where do you think all the breeders went and why. I didn't understand the topic then but I do now.[B

Geesh[/b]

As I said On a more general note. Kai Bengals you use the very same word general in your explaination. I was not refering to any individual.

kai bengals · Mar 16, 2006

Originally Posted by Mia mouse

As I said On a more general note. Kai Bengals you use the very same word general in your explaination. I was not refering to any individual.

Yes, but the impression you gave by quoting Gayef's post, points in the direction of refering to her specifically.
Don't think I'm picking on you...I'm not. Things get misconstrued easily here, since this is all one dimensional text online.
You referenced a post I made, so I explained that Gayef wasn't a target of that post. The explanation wasn't for your benefit alone. It was also for the rest of the forum. The breeders who post here respect Gayef and value her as a moderator.

black&tan · Mar 25, 2006

Originally Posted by gayef

Heck, most breeders can't even tell you which lines to avoid unless they have learned the hard way which lines carry issues. And even if they can, a lot of them will not disclose to their kitten buyers because in this day of lawsuits and an almost anal obsession with being politically correct, disclosure can be construed as negative commentary, slander and/or liable. So, unless you find that perfect breeder gem among rocks who will be honest and forthright about the specific lines she breeds, in and of themselves, the pedigree documents are useless to the vast majority of potential pet kitten buyers.

I want to make one last comment on this and then I will be on my way.
The key here is to deal with ethical breeders.

I wasn't talking about gossip or hearsay when I referred to knowing what bloodlines have problems. There are many ways we as breeders can learn about lines. Learning the hard way is one of the ways and adds to the expense of breeding. Talking to an active breeder is also a way but as you say the information is not often forthcoming, many American breeders feel they are in competition with their fellow breeders.

One of the best and easiest ways to collect data on past lines is to ask questions of your prospective kitten owners. I would guess that 90 percent of the people who email me have owned a Siamese in the past. They are very happy to share information about their Siamese, what it died of, what medical experiences they have had and where they obtained their cat.

I also talk to retired breeders every chance I get because they can talk of lines from 30 years ago that they had personal experience with.
Many vintage books and publications talk of known problems with the authors lines.
If you know a breeding cats pedigree you can deal with information from past lines and see how it is valuable.

If you have a queen whose kittens die you have be willing to have necropsy's done to learn from them. Yes these are expensive and all part of a good breeding program. Ethical breeders do search out information on bloodlines and if we encounter a serious medical issue we will make the hard decision to not continue with a line because it is in the best interest for the future of the Siamese breed. Just as some breeds are known to have medical issues, for example Amyloidosis in Abby's, some past lines also have known problems.

Breeding is more then putting a male and female together and producing kittens and there are alot of expenses that pet owners never think about. Most breeders never really get out of the red. They do it because they love the breed and for many it is the thing we were meant to do.

Bye all.

Cost of Siamese kittens

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