Confusing negative reaction to raw after several months in 2 cats (suspected bad batch but unsure)

[lazer]

It's been such a frustrating and worrying few days! Both of our cats have been eating raw for the past couple of months and aside from one vomiting incident from one of them that ended up seemingly a one-off and not related to a bad batch as I originally feared we've had no issues. They ate commercial BARF before, then for a while we switched them to Royal Canin Urinary SO and James Wellbeloved wet packets due to one of our cats' medical needs. Eventually we switched back to raw, this time using TC Premix - first with chicken as the muscle meat and more recently turkey.

Everything was fine. One of our cats has special needs and just got a full checkup a few days ago - extensive blood panel and urine test included. The only thing they found wrong with him was that he was thin - the vet said everything else looks great and whatever we're feeding him now seems to be fine. 

The night we got back from the vet I gave him more food as we were just told he needs to put on weight. That night the raw batch they were eating consisted of chicken again as the supermarket had no turkey. A couple of hours after eating more food than usual he vomited (hairball included but it was definitely not one of those just-hairball-vomits) and then immediately had diarrhoea. He had diarrhoea twice that night - you could tell he wasn't feeling well for a while so I kept a close eye on him. I was worried, but thought this may be a case of overeating as the only thing I'd changed was giving him a considerably larger meal. PLUS it was chicken and not turkey that time, but they've been fine on chicken before. In the early morning I gave him a packet of Urinary SO instead of raw - at that point no more vomit, no more pooping. One of his rewards for peeing is a snack, so that snack was Urinary SO at about 4-5am.

The next day everything seemed to go back to normal. I cautiously gave him a smaller amount of raw again (as well as our other cat). Both seemed fine for the day. But the day after that (yesterday morning I believe) we noticed our other cat having some mild diarrhoea. No vomiting, but loose stinky jelly-ish stool. Last night the first cat again had some diarrhoea - not to the same extent as previously but definitely there. At this point I decided to throw away the batch and made a brand new batch, this time with turkey as that was available. The last time they got the old batch was last night when my partner gave them a snack before I came home from work (I think this was actually just before or just after his last bout of mild diarrhoea, before I let him know I'd be tossing the whole batch). A couple of hours later I gave them some of the new, turkey batch and threw away the old one.

Tonight/early this morning the first cat vomited again. It was a few hours after eating and was not all of the food, but definitely some undigested meat chunks (and a bit more hair). He seems to be acting fine and hasn't had any diarrhoea yet but this is clearly troubling. And very frustrating, as he just got the all clear from the vet! 

I'm not sure how to proceed next - I am afraid of giving them any more raw, even from the new batch, until I know they are ok. I'm wondering if the last bout of vomiting may have been from the last snack he had last night of the old batch, but I have no idea. Right now I think I will switch them both back to normal wet and slowly mixing in raw bit by bit. The transition before for them was painless, I guess since they've had commercial BARF before, but now it seems they're having bad reactions.

My main questions are:

• Do you have any ideas based on the above on what the likely culprit is? Actually writing this all down seems to point even more to the old batch, but I'm still unsure as there were a few factors. First I thought it was overeating in the first cat, then the second cat got diarrhoea, then the first cat threw up bits of the new batch (then again this was a few hours after his last time eating the old thrown-out batch so maybe that's what triggered the vomiting?). I just do not know if it is just coincidence for both of them or related. 
• I'm a bit worried if maybe this is some newly developed allergy to chicken and/or turkey. Does this sound likely? That's why I'd like to go back to normal wet and start with a "clean slate", slowly reintroducing the raw meat protein to be able to detect any reaction in a more isolated way. 
• If you were worried about feeding raw for a bit and wanted to reintroduce them to it slowly again, what normal wet food would you recommend? I have some tetra packs of Bozita but have heard mixed things about the quality. Some people say it's the best option, others say it's pretty cheap and crap. I have also heard good things about Grau, but do not know of anyone stocking it here in Stockholm. The best option I know of to order it would be from Zooplus but that will likely arrive after Christmas. For now I'm switching back to James Wellbeloved for one cat and Urinary SO for the other, but he doesn't really need to be on Urinary SO anymore - it was always more of a precaution for him as some very small crystals were found in several-hours-old pee and he has a history of urinary blockage (originally unrelated to crystals, he has had a PU). If I'm going to be reintroducing them to raw I want to find the best possible wet food to use in the interim. Maybe Bozita for now if it's still a halfway decent option and Grau when I can have some delivered in a couple of weeks' time? (Edit: I just found the site of a local store that claims to have Lily's Kitchen, which I hear is a decent grainfree food. Could that be a good interim option?)
• Any other tips or ideas of what you'd do in this situation? We are actually planning to travel with the cats for a small holiday (two days) next weekend and I really want to do all I can to stabilize the situation and their tummies by then!

Of course if symptoms persist we will go back to the vet (probably the emergency room with holidays coming up). But the special-needs cat literally just got the all clear with all his bloodwork etc so I am really hoping this is something passing and not a long term issue, as unless it just started the night after the visit it should've been caught by all of the tests! Right now he is acting fine - his next meal is coming in 2-3 hours, so I'll keep a close eye.

Thank you and sorry about the long post!

 

[missmimz]

You say you're buying meat from the supermarket, are you grinding it yourself? If you're feeding pre-ground meat that could be the culprit as it's not recommended to feed any pre-ground meat because its unknown how clean those grinders are at supermarkets and there can be bacteria in pre-ground meats that make cats sick. 

 

[lazer]

 
You say you're buying meat from the supermarket, are you grinding it yourself? If you're feeding pre-ground meat that could be the culprit as it's not recommended to feed any pre-ground meat because its unknown how clean those grinders are at supermarkets and there can be bacteria in pre-ground meats that make cats sick. 

I don't grind it at all. Eventually I might get a grinder and feed ground, but for now I get whole pieces and cut them into small chunks at home during preparation. I never buy pre-ground from the supermarket for the reason you mention.

 

[nora1]

It could be an allergy. Do you supplement your batches? Maybe it was an old batch of supplements?

My cat has allergies and used to throw up any and all food if it triggered her "allergy button".

 

[Columbine]

Sorry for missing this earlier. Hopefully things have settled down now. For what it's worth, my instinct is that you maybe had some bad chicken. I really hope that every settled down with a fresh batch of food.

In terms of wet food, I just started feeding Grau recently, and it seems like a good food to me. Lily's Kitchen is ok, but I've had problems with the cans - my girl doesn't react well to the guar gum The trays are fine, but are all mixed protein sources - problematic if dealing with allergies. Catz Finefood is pretty good too, as is Feringa, and Thrive Complete is fantastic. All are from Zooplus. If you can get it, the Nature's Menu pouches are great quality too.

Hope some of this helps...and that it's now been rendered unnecessary

 

[lazer]

 
It could be an allergy. Do you supplement your batches? Maybe it was an old batch of supplements?

My cat has allergies and used to throw up any and all food if it triggered her "allergy button".

Thanks for the reply! The batches are prepared with TCFeline Premix and as far as I can tell it hadn't expired (I prepare a new batch every few days and go through an entire 600G pack of premix within under 2 months). I suppose it's possible the premix was bad...and then I have bigger problems as it was freshly ordered and not past its expiration date! 

I ended up throwing away the entire batch and making a new one - both cats were fine after that. One of them (the female) seems to be a lot more sensitive to something, very intermittently, than the male. I'm still trying to figure out what it is - suddenly she'll just develop mild diarrhea that lasts one night and then goes away. Not as bad as this incident and not too frequent, but she's definitely weird about something. We're trying to figure out if it could be something other than the food - something she might be finding around the house that doesn't sit well with her stomach. We're careful about putting things away but who knows! This was the first time both cats seemed to react at the same time (and the first, and so far only (knock wood), time the male reacted at all).

 

[lazer]

Sorry for missing this earlier. Hopefully things have settled down now. For what it's worth, my instinct is that you maybe had some bad chicken. I really hope that every settled down with a fresh batch of food.

In terms of wet food, I just started feeding Grau recently, and it seems like a good food to me. Lily's Kitchen is ok, but I've had problems with the cans - my girl doesn't react well to the guar gum

The trays are fine, but are all mixed protein sources - problematic if dealing with allergies. Catz Finefood is pretty good too, as is Feringa, and Thrive Complete is fantastic. All are from Zooplus. If you can get it, the Nature's Menu pouches are great quality too.

Hope some of this helps...and that it's now been rendered unnecessary

Thank you! It has settled down after I tossed the batch and made a new one with turkey, but one cat (the younger female) seems much more sensitive to something than the male in general. Sometimes she'll develop very mild diarrhea that lasts an evening and then goes away. She's also much more picky with food in general, and not as high an appetite as the other one. We recently actually just tried Grau and she refused to eat it. But she does seem to really like Animonda Carny...most of the time. Sometimes she'll turn it away and demand raw. I'm considering trying to switch her to Animonda full time for a while to see if that settles down her stomach and appetite. If so maybe the raw just isn't right for her. If not, she must be reacting to something else. I'm uncertain since she used to get James Wellbeloved and did develop mild diarrhea on that as well once. I'll definitely check out the others you mention also. The male tends to refuse anything but raw unless he's really hungry.

I also have a feeling her varying appetite has to do with us increasing Rigel's (the male's) intake by quite a bit. He's a considerably bigger cat who needs to put on weight. Even though I give her smaller portions she doesn't seem to be hungry at the same times as he is (he usually gets 3 meals per day, and 4 meals if we're not at work. Maybe she's just more of a 2-meal kind of cat).

Edit: Forgot to mention, she's about to have her spay surgery in a few weeks and she will have a blood test beforehand. I'm going to ask the vet to test for any parasites at the same time, since maybe that's related to her intermittent diarrhea. 

 

[Columbine]

I've just realised I got Grau confused with GranataPet :doh3: That may be another potential food for you I still think Grau is a good food, but don't use it because my girl has issues with some meats

Definitely a good plan to get your girl checked for parasites etc at her pre spay check up. She may simply not need the extra food - cats (especially when fed high meat wet/raw) are often pretty good at self regulating. It's only an issue if she's underweight or otherwise seeming unwell.

If you're having issues with the homemade raw, it might be worth trying a commercial raw food - that might help you work out if the problem is raw in general or something in your recipe. I forget which country you're in :anon: , but Nature's Menu and Purrform are two uk brands. I'm suggesting these two because they're frozen in small quantities (little cubes for NM and 70g pouches for Purrform), making it easy to minimise variables. Purrform is pure meat too