Confused Breeder - RINGWORM

[confusedbreeder]

I am at a loss and need advice from people other then breeder friends.

Please excuse the long email - but it is a long story.

I am a small breeder of Persians and Himalayans. My cattery is my home. Currently I have seven amazing cats with top pedigree's - all of show quality. I had just attended my first show where two of my girls made 9th and 10th best kitten out of 37 when I brought in my last cat from the states (I live in Canada). Well to make that story short, he was diagnosed with ringworm two months after arriving. A fungal culture was done the day after he arrived and because the breeder had treated him it came back negative. It took two months for her to finally admit (after a biopsy was done) that he had ringworm before he left. In the mean time, even though he was isolated, the ringworm spread.

To make a very long story shorter, I have spent seven months trying to rid my home and cattery of ringworm. All showing and breeding stopped. I shaved ALL of my cats, even after working months on my show cats coats. I started all of the cats on both oral and topical medications. They were either bathed in Dermazole or dipped in lime twice a week. I tore up all of my carpets and replaced them with vinyl. I replaced all of my fabric furniture, buying only a pleather type fabric that could be wiped with bleach solution. I took down all of my curtains and threw away all of my mats, cat tree's, cat beds, cat toys, litter boxes and house hold items that could not be washed. I had my furnace and ducts professionally cleaned and disinfected with Benefect. I bought a fogger, health guard laundry additive, A33 and bleach. Built two cat rooms in my basement to isolate, repainted and in the end spent over $20,000 doing all of this!

We had nine negative fungal cultures come back and the vet recommended stopping oral meds and topical treatments. We did and a month later, two cats came out with ringworm. I have become completely depressed.

The cats were all confined to rooms that could be washed down and disinfected. There was nothing in those rooms other then litter boxes and food/water bowls.

I am at my wits end and I am getting different advice from every one.

First and foremost, the vets (two) have recommended breeding and just doing topical treatments now. They said that I went above and beyond what most breeders would do and that now, it may just be time to "live with it". They are more concerned about the possibility of pyometra of my girls then ringworm - which I can understand.

My breeder friends all agreed with the vets.

I am just not sure what to do. I of course am BROKE. My bank denied a remortgage and reamortization and refuse to give us any more credit.

I have THREE young children and I can't put them in the position where they may not have a Christmas.

What would YOU do?

PLEASE I need advice... I am so lost right now... I have already downsized... and rehoming my furkids is not an option. I love them dearly. I just so badly need advice from people who I don't have a connection with.

Thank you
Katie

 

[otto]

I am so sorry this has happened. My gosh the amount of work and money you've expended over this.

Can you get any recompense from the breeder who knowingly sold you the sick cat? Hopefully you've kept records of all you done and spent.

Those vets and other breeders advising you to carry on make me furious. That's what the last breeder did...to YOU....and look what has happened to you. And they think you ought to just blithely pass the buck, eh? What a disgusting attitude.

I can't offer advice, just support. You have a conscience and are doing the right thing, not breeding these cats and potentially spreading this insidious fungus.

I guess I would probably spay and neuter the cats and not risk spreading the ringworm fungus further.

 

[icklemiss21]

I have heard Persians are more likely to get ringworm.

The spores can live for up to 2 years but it sounds like you have hit everywhere that they typically live and are issed (vents etc), you obviously have a chronic carrier in there somewhere - perhaps the only way to deal with is is to find out which and make a decision on whether that cat still lives with you.

Did the person you bought the ringworm positive cat from give a health guarantee etc? I would be going back on them if they knowingly sent you a ringworm positive cat and with that being said, I disagree with your vet, I would not buy a kitten from a ringworm positive cattery and I would hope most others would not either - for the same reasons as you are going through right now

 

[confusedbreeder]

I did get the money back from the cat I purchased. But obviously the bills went above and beyond what I paid for him. I am sorry, but there is no way I would have my cats spayed and neutered - I have about $15,000 worth of cats sitting in my house right now. It's not as easy as "starting over", if you see what I am saying - I will not be able to get these particular cats again. And after spending in total, about $35,000 I can't just be at a loss for that money. It needs to be payed back or I will lose my house.

Unfortunately, ringworm is very common in showing/breeding. One in three cats at a show hall carry ringworm spores. And most breeders deal with ringworm atleast once (from what I have been told). Most catteries that have it are those who show.

I appreciate your advice... I will probably proceed with treating again with oral meds in the hopes it will stay away this next time.

 

[otto]

Well.....how do you expect to sell anymore kittens, with the danger of ringworm? The same way the other breeder did, to you?

So ringworm is a common problem? I am not sure what kind of advice you are looking for then, sounds like you've already decided your course of action.

I wasn't advising you to start over. I was advising you to stop. If you stop breeding and showing now, that stops the spread of ringworm, at least from your end.

The focus on how much they are "worth" in monetary value is beyond me. I was under the impression that people become breeders for the love of breed, not for profit. Naive, I guess. I am unable to see cats as money makers, so I will step out of this thread now.

 

[confusedbreeder]

Wow - thank you for taking words out of my mouth!

I never said this was for profit but breeders tend to like to break EVEN. If I wanted to make profit I would have just bred SEVEN MONTHS AGO when this all started rather then spending every day cleaning like a crazy lady and making myself physically and emotinally exhausted and wasting seven precious months that I could have been showing and had kittens. RIGHT?! Obviously, I am NOT doing this for profit. When breeders say they don't make profit, they are right but nine times out of ten, then DO break even.

I never said I would sell kittens with ringworm THAT IS WHAT ORAL AND TOPICALLY MEDS ARE FOR. And, if you notice, I said that I would be starting oral meds again soon. It would have been so easy to throw up my hands and say "I give up!!" seven months ago but I love what I do and to just throw it all away would be rediculous!

Ringworm is not fatal! It is simply a fungus, like athletes foot. In places like California, where the weather is so hot all of the time, ringworm is a common problem. Do you know how many breeders there are in California... and I'll just let you attempt to estimate how many of them have catteries with ringworm. Luckily, most of them have it under control and don't sell kittens with ACTIVE ringworm like the breeder who sold me my cat.

I guess until you have done your research and understand breeding and what is involved you should not reply to this thread. That is why I posted it under "breaders corner". However, I know now that I will get no replies from breeders because they would be too afraid to be bad mouthed from people who don't understand.

 

[kai bengals]

First of all I'm not a Vet, so take any advice I give with that in mind.

I have however been breeding cats for more than 13 years. If you have a forced air furnace/ AC unit get an ultraviolet sterilizer and install it inside the air intake. Also purchase those expensive $30 each air filters that guarantee to filter out 99.9% of everything. Change the filters once a month.

You can also purchase table top ultraviolet sterilizers and distribute them in different areas of your home to catch floating spores.

Buy a vaccum cleaner that uses a good Hepa filter for the exiting air. Then vaccum the hell out of your home every single day. Maybe twice per day.
Take that Hepa filter out and bleach it at least weekly and change it as often as you can.

I would stop using the lyme dip and just spot treat. Most Vets prescribe Miconazole Nitrate in the 2% formula. It's either ineffective at that dose or slow to work. I would suggest you buy Monistat 3. It's the same medication only it's the 4% formula. I have seen this stuff knock out a ringworm lesion in 48 hours. Rub the cream in real well and of course do your best to keep the cat from licking it off.

 

[icklemiss21]

Originally Posted by confusedbreeder

I guess until you have done your research and understand breeding and what is involved you should not reply to this thread. That is why I posted it under "breaders corner". However, I know now that I will get no replies from breeders because they would be too afraid to be bad mouthed from people who don't understand.

So you don't want replies from the shelter people who have responded who deal with ringworm just as much as breeders, if not more, because we are dealing with strays and not what should be healthy cats

Topical and oral treatments have worked so well for you so far, why do you think they will work any better on kittens when you obviously have not managed to find the source of why it is not clearing up

 

[confusedbreeder]

Thank you Kai Bengals for your advice. I do appreciate it.

The source of infection is the environment. It is the only thing that makes sense. That is the only connection between the two cats that got it because originally they were in seperate rooms.

I have an appointment to once again have the furnace, ducts and dryer vent cleaned on Monday. No air conditioner. I have now put all cats in one room (of course confineing the males so the females cannot be bred). And they will be on meds once again, both oral and topical. I will also try canestin cream. We will be fogging with bleach. We already bought an industrial grade face mask and sealed goggles to do so.

I of course want advice from shelters but you have to keep in mind that a shelter is different then a cattery. I care very much for my animals, despite what you may think. They eat Taste of the Wild and Raw (complete diet). And only get bottled water. So please don't critisize me. I have done all that I can other then moveing.

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by confusedbreeder

I guess until you have done your research and understand breeding and what is involved you should not reply to this thread. That is why I posted it under "breaders corner". However, I know now that I will get no replies from breeders because they would be too afraid to be bad mouthed from people who don't understand.

You asked for advice (which translates into opinions).

I gave mine.

The fact that you do not agree with my advice and opinion does not mean that I should not post it.

This is an open board, not everyone has the exact same opinion or belief or method, and when you ask for these things you will get many varieties,
(delivered politely, by the rules). That they may not agree with yours does not make them invalid.

Just to clear that up.

I hope it all works out for you.


(PS...I doubt the breeders here are afraid of my opinions

)

 

[carolina]

I am so sorry you are going through this.... I do agree you have gone above and beyond what most would go, and I simply can not even imagine spending that kind of money trying to rid ringworm...
I did have a cat with ringworm, and at one point I just gave up on it. IMO there is much more fuss about it than anything else. Yes, it sucks, but it is not a dangerous disease, and IMO no way I would close my cattery becaise of it. It is a nuisance, but that's mostly it. The life and the health of the cat is really not compromise in any way, shape or form...
And eventually it will run its course...

I know in a cattery it is very different... But it is not like you will sell your kittens with ringworm, as you said, you are looking for a solution, I commend you with all your efforts, and wish you the best of luck...

Listen to Nial (kai Bengals) and the other breeder that will show up...

Also, Monistad 3, you probably know already, is the yeast medicine, sold over the counter.

Good luck, and I hope all gets better soon... I am so sorry you are goling through all this trouble!

 

[mews2much]

Sorry your cattery is infected.
My Wrinkles got a skin infection from a show and it is not ring worm but very hard to get rid of.
Some sphynx breeders said to try the Monistat 3 so I asked the vet and it worked well.
The vet even took a culture and it came back as some kind of infection.
None of my other cats got whatever it is.
We tried antibiotics and the vet gave me a shampoo called keto chlor to use after every show.

 

[kai bengals]

I forgot to add one more suggestion.

Buy a blacklight! You can get one of those handheld ones that doubles as a flashlight, not very expensive.

Take each cat into a pitch dark room and shine that light over all parts of their body. You'll be able to see spots starting up, that you would miss in natural light. Ringworm areas will glow very bright green.

Then vigorously spot treat those areas you find.

It is also effective for seeing your results on a given area that you are treating. When the glow is gone the fungus is dead. Just continue to treat for a little longer to be sure though.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

I have however been breeding cats for more than 13 years. If you have a forced air furnace/ AC unit get an ultraviolet sterilizer and install it inside the air intake. Also purchase those expensive $30 each air filters that guarantee to filter out 99.9% of everything. Change the filters once a month.

That is a great suggestion.

More on heating and air related: Get some local heat and air people in, have them clean out your duct work. I really really hope you do not have flex duct as it will be more difficult to keep clean. If you do have that kind, consider eventually switching to proper duct work. Easier to clean, sturdier, and better efficiency.

 

[confusedbreeder]

Thank you EVERY ONE. I appreciate all of the advice and kind words.

It's funny you mentioned the woods lamp (black light) as I am currently looking for one. I found only two places that sell it and I think I will end up paying about $60. Revival and Woodslight.com (I believe).

I am going to pick up Canestin or Monistat ASAP as well.

Thank you again

 

[jennyr]

I am not a breeder but I have 8 cats, and two years ago we had ringworm. Three cats were badly affected. two slightly and the others never showed any symptoms. I got it too, though not too badly. My vet started out prescribing shampoos and topical treatment, that did nothing. I too did all the cleaning, disinfecting etc. The only thing that finally got rid of it was oral treatment - I think it was Limassol tablets. Good luck - it must be awful to have it all tied up with your financial needs too.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by jennyranson

My vet started out prescribing shampoos and topical treatment, that did nothing. I too did all the cleaning, disinfecting etc. The only thing that finally got rid of it was oral treatment - I think it was Limassol tablets. Good luck - it must be awful to have it all tied up with your financial needs too.

This was my experience with Sho when he had ringworm. I am very glad that I only had one at that time!

 

[kai bengals]

Originally Posted by confusedbreeder

It's funny you mentioned the woods lamp (black light) as I am currently looking for one. I found only two places that sell it and I think I will end up paying about $60. Revival and Woodslight.com (I believe).

Look here, it's only $22.00 plus shipping.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=7332

It's advertised as a "stink finder" for locating urine spots on carpet, but it's the EXACT same light you'd use to find ringworm spots.

As a matter of fact, we have this exact same light and used it to locate spots on a show girl we had several years ago that acquired ringworm from showing.

 

[missymotus]

Hope you get things cleared up, I haven't dealt with ringworm but know someone who has. Took over 6 months to get rid of it completely, with a lot of money, time and baths.

 

[bunnelina]

Hi there,

I'm not a breeder but recently survived a ringworm outbreak (which I PRAY doesn't return). I read your story and thought, "Oh, my god! You've really been through way too much, and I hope you get some relief from this evil, invisible enemy soon.

I'm assuming your vet is telling you to just wait and see if the ringworm runs its own course because, in theory, it's supposed to, in a matter of months. It's supposed to just resolve on its own, although I'm skeptical about that. Is your fungus microsporum canis, the most common one? Perhaps you have a different, more resistant microbe which requires a different approach?

You've clearly gone many extra miles with cleaning, oral meds, and dip, and I really can sympathize. But it looks like the cause is still likely environmental, right? So, how exactly are you cleaning your walls and floors? You need at least a 10% bleach solution to kill spores, and for many of us, that's just too toxic for our and our felines' respiratory systems, as well as household surfaces. My plan to attack was not to kill spores to but to gather them up. I used a Miele vacuum with a HEPA filter and 9-layer, self-sealing bags, every day, all over my apartment. I vacuumed and dry-swiffered walls, ceilings, and moldings as well as floors. I vacuumed the undersides of furniture and all upholstery because my cats were roaming free. I hated every minute of all this vacuuming and wiping down but I believe it worked. At least I didn't need to replace vac bags every day because I know the spores couldn't escape that sealed bag.

As far as medication, are you using generic Lamisil? It's supposed to be safer than Sporanox, very effective, and less expensive....

I wrote about my experience here. In there, you'll find a link to a PDF with advice for shelters, which suggests culturing areas of your house (including ductwork before going to the expense of replacing it....) Clearly you know most of this, but I hope you might find some little tip that may help you.

Please hang in there! I know it's hell.