Concerns over popular catfoods

[pat]

Originally Posted by Pepper Girl


Thanks so much! I have to feed Pepper the Eukanuba dry food cuz I just bought the bag and can't afford to waste it. But I will certainly switch her and my kitten to Nutro. The Pet Valu by my house actually does sell Nutro Natural Choice

I seen it when I was there last. Also, should I switch the kits to Nutro can/moist food or is Fancy Feast ok? And increase their intake of moist food from a couple of tablespoons per day to a can or half a can per day??

I really want to do well by my cats and am getting kinda confused about what is best for them...

I would increase the amount of canned food per day and decrease accordingly, the dry. Some flavors of Fancy Feast have an ingredients list I like but most have some by-products, or soy or wheat. However...when it comes to an ill, or off-appetite cat, I've always found there was a flavor of fancy feast that would get them eating again..just something about fancy feast

Try the nutro - though be aware that last time I checked, some of the nutro max cat canned flavors still include garlic which I choose not to feed. If I am wrong and they no longer do, I am sure Sharky will correct me

 

[pat]

Originally Posted by BabyBee

I But my question is, and this is not to cause a big argument or anything like that, just wondering since I think we can all learn something from each other...if intestines, brain, feet, tails and all that is called byproduct bad for the cat, then my sisters cats who caught birds and what not, why did they eat the whole thing? why didn't they just eat the meat off the bone? so since they did this many times, with all kinds of stuff they cought, I would think that that is what is natural no? so if we say a raw natural diet, then that would include indeed the whole animal...I might be getting it wrong

My concern isn't what by-products might be - its that I do not trust cast off items in a meat processing plant, swept up with sawdust, meat or poultry that may include diseased tissue, nor do I care for the rendering process. Short of cooking for your cats yourself using organic meats or a farm source you trust, all you can do is go by reputation of a company, and an ingredients list that doesn't include lots of fillers and inferior protein sources. If they describe the meat or poulty used as human grade, that's good step up in reassuring me it has some quality to it.

 

[pat]

Originally Posted by maiseycat

I would say that even cat foods that claim to have no by-products DO indeed have unsavory ingredients, such as, feathers, feces, rat tails, etc. Same thing with human food. No factory is immune to these things. Many fast food restaurant chains have been found to contain feces in their kitchens and serving areas. I have worked at a steakhouse, and my wishful thinking about clean, sanitary conditions, and food safety in general went out the door. I can't buy into beliefs about "organic," "natural," "pure," cat foods -any of those are buzz words that set off my BS meter. This world is not a perfect one, and unless I'm actually watching the processes that go into making the food, I have my doubts...

While I tend to be skeptical of various claims, I also know there are companies out there that go the extra mile. They do use human-grade meats, they process them in 'for humans only" kitchens, and package in a way I like...I don't find those terms to be just bs for all companies that use them.

 

[batrice]

Read "foods pet die for" it sure opened my eyes. Plus i have read the Pitcarin book and the martin golstein book which focuses on human grade foods and how good they are compared to friskies,iams etc.Sure my cats lived till they were 20 years old on friskies and fancy feast since the better stuff was not out yet. But after reading these books and seeing what is in cat food it really opened my eyes. I would not want to eat the "crap" they put in these foods so why should my cats.I have researched all the ingredients in cat foods esp the bad ones. WOW! I guess it comes down to what you want to spend on your animals. I give them what i think is the best and probably feed them better than i do myself. California Natural a dry food by naturapet (innova) is very good as well. I give dry and wet and lots of fresh steam distilled water.

 

[moggiegirl]

Originally Posted by BabyBee

I am in no way saying that byproducts are good, I just said that I am not worried about them. I have read somewhere, and tried to find it so I can link it, that cats don't get all the nutrition they need from the meat only. I don't know if that is accurate info or not....So if that is true I would assume that if you feed your cats meat only then you would have to supplement the diet...But I might be wrong about that as well.

I have to somewhat agree with Maiseycat, unfortunately it's not just cat food it's all food. My friends dad worked as a butcher for a company I wish not to name...and many would be surprised what actually goes into the sausages they make for people to eat.

and not just sausages...it's sad, but this is the kind of world we live in I guess.

I cook meat and what not that I give to my cats..I did try the raw meat as well, but I feared salmonella...so instead I decided to cook the meat. But my question is, and this is not to cause a big argument or anything like that, just wondering since I think we can all learn something from each other...if intestines, brain, feet, tails and all that is called byproduct bad for the cat, then my sisters cats who caught birds and what not, why did they eat the whole thing? why didn't they just eat the meat off the bone? so since they did this many times, with all kinds of stuff they cought, I would think that that is what is natural no? so if we say a raw natural diet, then that would include indeed the whole animal...I might be getting it wrong

Of course you could not feed a cat on muscle meat alone if you were preparing a homemade diet. Homemade diets are something I'm not very knowledgeable about but I do know this much. A cat in the wild does indeed eat almost the entire carcass of it's prey. I knew a stray cat named Leo that regularly caught canyon rabbits and mice and ate the entire carcass, except for the eyes and whatever wasn't desirable to the cat. However the difference here is quite a few things. Read the labels of cat foods and you'll see that there are a lot of supplements added which is why cat food companies can make nutritionally balanced cat foods without organ meats and bones. An example of this would be Natura Pet Products. They don't use organ meats of any kind. I do think it's more natural for a cat food to contain organ meats since they would need those in nature and in homemade diets which is why I buy canned food that contains beef liver or chicken liver. At least it's a named ingredient. I would love to see more cat food companies list chicken hearts, kidneys and such but when the term by-product is listed it just leaves us asking, "What's that?" I don't like not knowing what's in my cat's food. Also you have to consider proportions. Cats do not eat only organ meats and intestines in the wild. They eat the muscle meat too and it is believed that cats do need a greater proportion of muscle meat to organ meat and bones. When a pet food company lists chicken by-product meal or meat by-products as the only source of animal based protein that is a very cheap way to make cat food and it's not high quality. It makes me wonder why they're not willing to add another source of animal based protein such as chicken or turkey and put the by-products further down the list if they have to use byproducts instead of named organ meats. I hope that in the future more pet food companies will stop using obscure terms like byproduct and name everything. Why aren't they doing that? Because people might not buy it if they knew what was actually in it. Anyway one way to solve the question of avoiding by-product while still providing organ meats is to feed a variety of foods. So if you're feeding for example California Natural which is just chicken muscle meat and rice vitamins and minerals, you could add a canned food which has liver in it so your cat gets some organ meat. Or give an occasional turkey heart from your thanksgiving or christmas dinner. I'm totally in favor of offal.

 

[bengalbabe]

Originally Posted by BabyBee

if intestines, brain, feet, tails and all that is called byproduct bad for the cat, then my sisters cats who caught birds and what not, why did they eat the whole thing? why didn't they just eat the meat off the bone? so since they did this many times, with all kinds of stuff they cought, I would think that that is what is natural no? so if we say a raw natural diet, then that would include indeed the whole animal...I might be getting it wrong

Because, (again the is the second time im posting this in the same thread) by product does not just include oregan (sp?) meats. It includes anything at the processing plants that is left over. This means that it includes the feces scraped off the floor, feathers, tumors and other diseased tissue,in the case of animals with large worms like cows it includes all of the intestinal contents (lots of worms). (and by the way ascaris worms are the exact same color as hot dogs...hmmmm) And any thing else gross you can think off that might end up on the floor of a slaughtering plant. Most every oregan meat is sold for human comsumption including cow brain so it makes you wonder what the heck is left to be called by-product!
In a raw diet the whole animal is being fed EXCEPT the feathers, feces and stinky rotten diseased tissue.

 

[bengalbabe]

Originally Posted by moggiegirl

Of course you could not feed a cat on muscle meat alone if you were preparing a homemade diet. Homemade diets are something I'm not very knowledgeable about but I do know this much. A cat in the wild does indeed eat almost the entire carcass of it's prey. I knew a stray cat named Leo that regularly caught canyon rabbits and mice and ate the entire carcass, except for the eyes and whatever wasn't desirable to the cat. However the difference here is quite a few things. Read the labels of cat foods and you'll see that there are a lot of supplements added which is why cat food companies can make nutritionally balanced cat foods without organ meats and bones. An example of this would be Natura Pet Products. They don't use organ meats of any kind. I do think it's more natural for a cat food to contain organ meats since they would need those in nature and in homemade diets which is why I buy canned food that contains beef liver or chicken liver. At least it's a named ingredient. I would love to see more cat food companies list chicken hearts, kidneys and such but when the term by-product is listed it just leaves us asking, "What's that?" I don't like not knowing what's in my cat's food. Also you have to consider proportions. Cats do not eat only organ meats and intestines in the wild. They eat the muscle meat too and it is believed that cats do need a greater proportion of muscle meat to organ meat and bones. When a pet food company lists chicken by-product meal or meat by-products as the only source of animal based protein that is a very cheap way to make cat food and it's not high quality. It makes me wonder why they're not willing to add another source of animal based protein such as chicken or turkey and put the by-products further down the list if they have to use byproducts instead of named organ meats. I hope that in the future more pet food companies will stop using obscure terms like byproduct and name everything. Why aren't they doing that? Because people might not buy it if they knew what was actually in it. Anyway one way to solve the question of avoiding by-product while still providing organ meats is to feed a variety of foods. So if you're feeding for example California Natural which is just chicken muscle meat and rice vitamins and minerals, you could add a canned food which has liver in it so your cat gets some organ meat. Or give an occasional turkey heart from your thanksgiving or christmas dinner. I'm totally in favor of offal.

Because they don't want you to know what the by product is. How many of you would buy a package of pet food that listed like this:
chicken feathers,chicken fecal matter,diseased chicken tumors,ascarid worms from cow intestines,dead chickens that were starting to rot,corn meal,spray digest (which is fermented meat till it turns to liquid and sprayed on the kibble), vitamins(to make up for all of the nutrients your not really getting). minerals (for the same reason).
If pet food compaines were made to tell the exact truth about the products that's exactly how the labels would read.

 

[batrice]

Originally Posted by hissy

Cats that are trained (by momcat) to hunt properly will not eat the entire kill. They will eat everything but the gut sack and the head of a mouse, and they will eat all but the beak and feet of the birds.A starving cat cannot hunt effectively, a well-fed cat is a good hunter and females excel at hunting over the males. It is all instinctive. We take away their ability to get their natural food and expect them to eat dry kibble and stay healthy- it just won't happen. they need wet food, they all do.

Hissy i agree totally. I have always fed my cat wet and dry. usually leave the dry out if they need to nibble in between and its there if they want it with their meals. My cats love the california natural. I hate to say this but i think most people do not want to spend much on their animals in regards to food and they cannot afford it and thats okay to as long as the animal is loved. Its that or they have not really read up on it. I was a little hesitant at first but once i started my research there was no turning back in learning what is in pet food.. I saved "kitty" almost a year to the day, he was a feral and is getting the best of food and love. He has really come around and its funny but he knows that I saved him and I am his mother. He always runs to me more than others.

 

[moggiegirl]

Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

The veterinary community is changing it's position on this...here is an interesting article by a vet re why wet/canned food does NOT cause increased dental issues. click here for article

Pat & Alix, Thank you for linking that information. I had to find it. The hyperlink did not immediately pull up the article. I got a message that it couldn't be found. But once I found that article I printed it out so I can flash it just in case someone says something to me about dry food being better for the teeth and also to assure me that it doesn't make any difference on the teeth whether I feed dry or canned and I can spoil my cats with as much wet food as I want to. My kitties won't let me brush their teeth so I give them each a CET chew once a day and pay for dental cleanings when the vet says it's necessary. I'm wondering how effective CET chews are. I hope they're helping. I haven't been able to find any informaion about how effective these treats are.

 

[pat]

Originally Posted by moggiegirl

Pat & Alix, Thank you for linking that information. I had to find it. The hyperlink did not immediately pull up the article. I got a message that it couldn't be found. But once I found that article I printed it out so I can flash it just in case someone says something to me about dry food being better for the teeth and also to assure me that it doesn't make any difference on the teeth whether I feed dry or canned and I can spoil my cats with as much wet food as I want to. My kitties won't let me brush their teeth so I give them each a CET chew once a day and pay for dental cleanings when the vet says it's necessary. I'm wondering how effective CET chews are. I hope they're helping. I haven't been able to find any informaion about how effective these treats are.

It's a finicky link...sometimes it first pulls up an ad that you can decline to view and then it takes you to the article

anyhoo...here is an article where they recommend the cet chews! click here and scroll down the page to recommended products as well as Wysong's Dentatreat (off the top of my head, I think that's the name of the product).

 

[maiseycat]

I'm going to school for paralegalism, and it would be interesting to find out how restrictive the guidelines for pet food labeling are - I'm guessing not very. For instance, would ABC company be able to say their food contains no by products when it actually contains just as much as the leading supermarket brand? They could be taking all the extra cash from their high-priced food and putting it into creating fancy packaging to mislead the average consumer. I know the labels have the basic ingredients broken down into percentages, but I also know there are ways companies "cheat" to make their food sound better. This alone has me skeptical of them all, especially ones that tout high-quality with a high price tag. This is probably related to the U.C.C. somehow - providing a duty of good faith in dealing. We haven't really gotten into the specifics of product codes and such...

I know cat owners want to buy the best food out their for their pets, but cat food is not something as concrete as a car tire. I just hate to see people buying into what is said in books and such as pure fact. These books, of course, include a lot of bias toward certain brands. I personally like Iams and Purina for my cat - it's not the most luxurious food out there, but I feel comfortable giving it to my cat.

I hate to say this but i think most people do not want to spend much on their animals in regards to food and they cannot afford it and thats okay to as long as the animal is loved.

I'm sorry, but I really disagree with that comment. If you have a strong preference for an expensive pet store food, have you yourself gone to the manufacturing plant for a tour? Have you had the food inspected by a nutritionalist that you trust? Unless you have, which I doubt, you are spending money for food that may or may not be the best for your cat, and are satisfied that it is the best only because of heresay and the fact that you went to a special store and paid $15... Being in a legal field, I guess I have a certain degree of mistrust when it comes to things like this. I believe that most pet foods out there probably aren't very nutritious or even semi-healthy for my cat. But, that's how it is. Cats aren't humans, therefore, they get sub-standard treatment. I don't think it's right, but that's only my opinion. Maybe I'll do some more research into this, into each individual brand, and see the actual corporations for myself. I'm also very interested in learning more about the product codes - I'm sure there could be some nice lawsuits coming out of this, if a customer would ever do some intensive research into what he/she's actually paying for...

 

[bengalbabe]

Originally Posted by maiseycat

I'm going to school for paralegalism, and it would be interesting to find out how restrictive the guidelines for pet food labeling are - I'm guessing not very. For instance, would ABC company be able to say their food contains no by products when it actually contains just as much as the leading supermarket brand? They could be taking all the extra cash from their high-priced food and putting it into creating fancy packaging to mislead the average consumer. I know the labels have the basic ingredients broken down into percentages, but I also know there are ways companies "cheat" to mislead consumers that they're getting a quality food. This alone has me skeptical of them all, especially ones that tout high-quality with a high price tag. This is probably related to the U.C.C. somehow - providing a duty of good faith in dealing. We haven't really gotten into the specifics of product codes and such...

I know cat owners want to buy the best food out their for their pets, but cat food is not something as concrete as a car tire. I just hate to see people buying into what is said in books and such as pure fact. These books, of course, include a lot of bias toward certain brands. I personally like Iams and Purina for my cat - it's not the most luxurious food out there, but I feel comfortable giving it to my cat.

I hate to say this but i think most people do not want to spend much on their animals in regards to food and they cannot afford it and thats okay to as long as the animal is loved.

I'm sorry, but I really disagree with that comment. If you have a strong preference for an expensive pet store food, have you yourself gone to the manufacturing plant for a tour? Have you had the food inspected by a nutritionalist that you trust? Unless you have, which I doubt, you are spending money for food that may or may not be the best for your cat, and are satisfied that it is the best only because of heresay and the fact that you went to a special store and paid $15... Being in a legal field, I guess I have a certain degree of mistrust when it comes to things like this. I believe that most pet foods out there probably aren't very nutritious or even semi-healthy for my cat. But, that's how it is. Cats aren't humans, therefore, they get sub-standard treatment. I don't think it's right, but that's only my opinion. Maybe I'll do some more research into this, into each individual brand, and see the actual corporations for myself. I'm also very interested in learning more about the product codes - I'm sure there could be some nice lawsuits coming out of this, if a customer would ever do some intensive research into what he/she's actually paying for...

Yes for instance how about pet food packaging saying 'For good dental health" do they actually have proof that their food is good for the cats teeth? I doubt it because facts prove otherwise!

 

[maiseycat]

Originally Posted by bengalbabe

Yes for instance how about pet food packaging saying 'For good dental health" do they actually have proof that their food is good for the cats teeth? I doubt it because facts prove otherwise!

I also wonder about tartar control products. I seriously don't think tartar control toothpaste does a better job at fighting tartar than basic toothpaste (looking at the human side of things). I bought tartar control treats for my cat, but I don't think they can be any more effective than basic dry food. I bought them with the misguided belief that I could somehow train my cat into learning right from wrong. Ha.

 

[eatrawfish]

I've noticed the difference in my cats coats and energy levels since I switched them from Iams to a higher grade food product. That works for me.

 

[pat]

Maiseycat, I suggest you begin by learning about AAFCO and what their standards do and don't mean, and their definitions. I am all for healthy skepticism, and I don't assess quality by the cost...but I have a lot more comfort with various foods and treats - perhaps because I tend to buy directly from a company when possible, and speak with the owners, get details from them (i.e. I've spoken more than once with the owners of Rosie's Rewards,who have explained the testing they do on a regular basis etc.) on their products.

I'd like to think there are a lot of smaller companies on the up and up with their claims.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

I would increase the amount of canned food per day and decrease accordingly, the dry. Some flavors of Fancy Feast have an ingredients list I like but most have some by-products, or soy or wheat. However...when it comes to an ill, or off-appetite cat, I've always found there was a flavor of fancy feast that would get them eating again..just something about fancy feast

Try the nutro - though be aware that last time I checked, some of the nutro max cat canned flavors still include garlic which I choose not to feed. If I am wrong and they no longer do, I am sure Sharky will correct me

I will check tomarow .. the cans I have in thouse dont..but I dont buy many classics... I do know and will ask at next meeting why there is some in the max hairball dry..

 

[pat]

Thank you!

 

[eliotfinn]

I'm all for healthy skepticism as well, but I have no other choice but to go by the ingredient lists they provide.

Having said that, and all arguing aside, what's the best food I can feed my cat? Price is not a factor. Which is the healthiest, and contains the least amount of "bad" things? Nutro? Natrual California? What others?

Also, the stores near me are PetCo and PetSmart.

 

[batrice]

My research is solid. Being in the law field means nothing to me. My cat had a urininary stone at a young age and its a female cat. The vet kept saying put her on science diet. She would not touch it (and i did not blame her) Thats when i read some solid and informative books which are not bias, they are true!! It was very informative on what can cause urinary problems and what to do to avoid it, which includes Steam distilled water. I switched my cat to Innova cat food and california natural and my cat has been fine. Plus i have read a comprehensive article by a pet food institute. I'm not paying a fortune for food. Its the same as anybody else. I find through friends how misinformed they are about what is in cat food and they really do not care. If you notice in grocery stores all the big companies are "trying" to advertise more healthful ingredients.People either have no interest in what their pets get or prefer to buy anything and yes that can include the cheapest item in a grocery store. That is a fact of life with some.

 

[pat]

Originally Posted by EliotFinn

I'm all for healthy skepticism as well, but I have no other choice but to go by the ingredient lists they provide.

Having said that, and all arguing aside, what's the best food I can feed my cat? Price is not a factor. Which is the healthiest, and contains the least amount of "bad" things? Nutro? Natrual California? What others?

Also, the stores near me are PetCo and PetSmart.

The best food would be a homemade diet...there are several books out, one by Dr. Strombeck on various formulas/aka recipes.

In dry food, some would say Innova's new EVO, some would list other brands that except for garlic I might agree with them about (i.e. wellness, or nature's variety), California Natural Chicken and Rice is very impressive...nice short ingredient list, good quality ingredients. It also depends on your cats...what is too rich for them, what they will eat...if they won't eat it, it doesn't matter what the food's reputation is!