Commercial Raw vs Homemade Raw

[Willowy]

Not sure where you live. . .but parasites are not a problem in American commercial meat. Whatever bad things you can say about factory farming, at least they keep up a decent deparasitization program.

I probably wouldn't feed a lot of raw seafood. Only stuff humans would eat raw, and then only if it's super fresh. Seafood is generally wild-caught and parasites can be a problem.

 

[space1101]

There many types of parasites that could exist in any living animals, I'm not sure if it is prevalent though.  I myself eat raw seafood from time to time, luckily I've never had any parasites, so maybe it is not that prevalent.  Commercial raw is probably less likely to have parasite since the eggs normally would be killed when they quick freeze the meat. (I'm not 100% sure) 

http://rawmeatcatfood.com/2010/08/16/parasites/

 

[ldg]

Oh gotcha. Trichinosis, T. gondii, E. coli, and Salmonella are the most common. Trichinosis used to be more common in pork, but is really only a problem in some game meats. I have no idea what cat susceptibility to Trichinosis is. Toxoplasmosis (T. gondii) is more of an issue for people than for cats. It doesn't usually make most cats sick, but when they ingest T. gondii, they shed the oocysts (eggs) for 10 - 14 days. I think the only meat it's really found in is again, pork. E. coli isn't even listed as a disease in the Merck Vet Cat manual, so apparently it doesn't really make cats sick? And Salmonella we know is of concern in our meat, but it's more of a processing contamination problem, and most cats don't get sick from it unless it's some crazy unusual load, or they're health compromised.

 

[ldg]

OK - here's the information on Trichinosis: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5809a1.htm

Results: During 2002--2007, a total of 66 cases of trichinellosis were reported to CDC. Those cases for which a supplementary case report form was not submitted or that did not meet the case definition were excluded from analysis. Of the 66 cases reported during 2002--2007, a total of 12 (18%) cases were excluded from analysis.

Associated meat products were classified as either pork or meat products other than pork and were identified for 43 (80%) cases. Meat products other than pork were associated with 27 (50%) cases: 21 with bear meat, one with either bear or deer meat, one with cougar meat, one with deer meat, one with walrus or seal meat, and two with commercial beef. Pork was associated with 10 (19%) cases: seven with commercial pork, two with noncommercial pork, and one with an unspecified type of pork. Of the seven cases associated with consumption of commercial pork, five were linked to U.S. commercial pork, and two were attributed to pork ingested during travel in Asia. The two cases associated with noncommercial pork were attributed to wild boar meat; one case involved wild boar meat from a farm and the other wild boar meat from a farmers' market. Six patients reported consuming both pork and meat products other than pork, but the infected meat product could not be identified.

Interpretation: The number of reported trichinellosis cases attributed to commercial pork consumption remains low. The greatest number of cases continues to be associated with consumption of meat other than pork, especially bear meat.

Doesn't seem like something that really needs to be worried about. Only 66 cases in total during 2002 - 2007; only 5 from commercial pork in the U.S.

 

[space1101]

Is a healthy cat immune to most bacteria and parasites?  I was thinking if  cat ingests some eggs of certain parasites, wouldn't it be out of the system withen 2 days before they hatch?

I live in San Francisco Bay area, where I can easily get fresh sea food.  I guess I shouln't give them raw scallops in the future.

Thanks for the information LDG.  I guess I don't need to be worried about [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Trichinosis then. :-)[/color]

 

[ldg]

Here is information on T. gondii:

From Cornell: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/toxo.html

How will toxoplasmosis affect my cat?

Most cats infected with T. gondii will not show any symptoms. Occasionally, however, clinical disease-toxoplasmosis-occurs. When disease does occur, it may develop when the cat's immune response is not adequate to stop the spread of tachyzoite forms. The disease is more likely to occur in cats with suppressed immune systems, including young kittens and cats with feline leukemia virus (FELV) or feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV).

The most common symptoms of toxoplasmosis include fever, loss of appetite, and lethargy...

And prevalence in our meat in the US: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16419752

The prevalence of viable Toxoplasma gondii was determined in 6,282 samples (2,094 each of beef, chicken, and pork) obtained from 698 retail meat stores from 28 major geographic areas of the United States. Each sample consisted of a minimum of 1 kg of meat purchased from the retail meat case. To detect viable T. gondii, meat samples were fed to T. gondii-free cats and feces of cats were examined for oocyst shedding...None of the cats fed chicken or beef samples shed oocysts. Overall, the prevalence of viable T. gondii in retail meat was very low.

 

[ldg]

Is a healthy cat immune to most bacteria and parasites?  I was thinking if  cat ingests some eggs of certain parasites, wouldn't it be out of the system withen 2 days before they hatch?

I live in San Francisco Bay area, where I can easily get fresh sea food.  I guess I shouln't give them raw scallops in the future.

Thanks for the information LDG.  I guess I don't need to be worried about Trichinosis then. :-)

Well, AC has better information and links on this than I do. But my understanding is basically yes, food is digested and waste excreted essentially so quickly because their digestive tract is so simple and small intestines and colon so short that bacteria is usually not an issue. This is definitely one defense against bacteria/parasites. The other is the way the digestive system works - the composition of the digestive acids working to kill the parasites (and bacteria). But it also seems cats are able to "host" pathogens - like Salmonella, T. gondii, E. coli - without (usually) getting sick from them.

 

[auntie crazy]

Parasites are not an issue with any type of controlled raw feeding.

It only becomes possible when the cat hunts on its own, and that just becomes yet another issue for outdoor cats.

Don't feed seafood to your cat regardless, it's not good for her! Dr. Hofve, of LittleBigCat.com, talks about why fish shouldn't be fed to cats (and I have to think seafood would fall under the same umbrella) in her article: Why Fish is Dangerous for Cats.

AC

 

[ldg]

From my previous quote in a post above:

3) The real source of debate is not whether there is salmonella contamination of our cat food or our human meat - but the extent to which it impacts our cats. If your cat has been on antibiotics, all the "good" flora in their gut is wiped out, and this definitely makes them susceptible to pathogens like salmonella. (Which is why people feeding raw ought to cook the meat while their cat is on antibiotics - or at least sear the outside, and put their cats on a probiotic, to help re-establish the good gut flora). But normal, healthy cats SEEM (there are no studies) to be able to handle some exposure to salmonella [edited here to add: normal, healthy cats seem to be able to handle exposure to most pathogens] with no adverse effects. Cats are carnivores, and have a very simple digestive systems. The theory is that the very acidic environment of the stomach destroys most pathogens/bacteria they ingest, as with their natural diet (mice, small rodents, rabbits, bugs, small reptiles, etc) they are exposed to these pathogens. Here is anecdotal evidence in support of that theory: http://www.peterdobias.com/community/2012/01/2664/

According to the vet's summary in the above link to a letter responding to criticism of another vet about feeding cats a raw diet:

When it comes to bacteria, I have not seen one single client to have reported salmonelosis when feeding raw meat. I have also come to accept that dogs and cats are naturally resistant to intestinal pathogens and that they are not humans. Cats often eat mice that are frequent carriers of salmonella and other bacteriae without any ill effect and lets be real, dogs sniff and eat worse things than a piece of raw meat.

 

[melesine]

I don't think that "homemade" raw is less safe than commercial at all. I've been feeding raw meat bought at the grocery store to my dogs for 5 years and they are all in great shape. I never fed commercial raw to the dogs. I have fed it to the cats. They were eating cut up pieces of meat but I tried rad cat last week as I'm not totally confident on taurine requirements with the chunks. The cats like the rad cat but I had some loose stool issues. My main complaint with commercial raw is it's usually ground food, which I don't think is an ideal full time diet long term. Whole foods are better for their teeth and jaws. My other issue is the add ins put into commercial raw. Natures Instinct puts fruits and vegetables even in their raw cat food formulas along with Montmorillonite Clay. Rad cat has psyllium husk.  

 

[ldg]

Well that's just it. With commercial raw you don't have control over the ingredients - only to the extent that you pick and chose which product you buy. :nod: For some of us, there's a comfort level because of supplements, and for a very few of the commercial raws, there is the pathogen-free guaranteed aspect, because of the high pressure processing (Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy's, and Primal's poultry products). But I think for most, the commercial raws are really used for the transition to raw. We don't really know what nutrients are lost in the processing, the freezing, etc., and you're absolutely right about not having the benefit of chewing chunks and some bones. :nod:

 

[mschauer]

I don't think that "homemade" raw is less safe than commercial at all. I've been feeding raw meat bought at the grocery store to my dogs for 5 years and they are all in great shape. I never fed commercial raw to the dogs. I have fed it to the cats. They were eating cut up pieces of meat but I tried rad cat last week as I'm not totally confident on taurine requirements with the chunks. The cats like the rad cat but I had some loose stool issues. My main complaint with commercial raw is it's usually ground food, which I don't think is an ideal full time diet long term. Whole foods are better for their teeth and jaws. My other issue is the add ins put into commercial raw. Natures Instinct puts fruits and vegetables even in their raw cat food formulas along with Montmorillonite Clay. Rad cat has psyllium husk.  

Yup. I calculated that over the last 3 years (for the first year I fed commercial raw) I have feed 2,190 lbs of homemade raw food made from non-organic easily obtained meats. None of my 4 cats has ever shown any sign of food related illness. That's an awful lot of "risky" food to have fed with no sign of a problem.

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by mschauer


Yup. I calculated that over the last 3 years (for the first year I fed commercial raw) I have feed 2,190 lbs of homemade raw food made from non-organic easily obtained meats. None of my 4 cats has ever shown any sign of food related illness. That's an awful lot of "risky" food to have fed with no sign of a problem.

Hah! Mschauer, I am *not* in the best of moods at the moment and you just totally made me LOL. You calculated how many pounds of food you've fed over the last three years?!

Hmmm, I should be able to do the same thing... hold on.... in the last three years, I've fed six cats ~2,463 pounds (some of my meals vary in weight), with zero adverse affects. 

  That was fun!

And I recently had blood work done on the three oldest and they are in great shape!

Mschauer, how many kitties do you have?

AC

 

[mschauer]

Mschauer, how many kitties do you have?

AC

4. Between them they eat ~1 lb a day. Oops. That's 1095 lbs. I hate it when I do that! 

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by mschauer

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy


Mschauer, how many kitties do you have?

AC

4. Between them they eat ~1 lb a day. Oops. That's 1095 lbs. I hate it when I do that! 

No worries! You still gave me a good, well-needed laugh, which totally broke me out of my mood. I'm still not happy, but I'm no longer.... glowering.

AC

 

[space1101]

I have a question about bone in meat diet, both home-made and commercial.  Normally this type of raw diet has higher phosphorus content than raw with calcium supplement.  Can senior cats tolerate high phorphorus?  Should I choose diets with lower phosphorus? or high phosphorus isn't an issue as long as calcium phosphorus ratio is right?