Clicker training questions

[haiku17]

Hi, I'm trying to clicker train my Persian, Haiku, but I'm having difficulty with the reward system and her eating. 

For the past three years, I've fed her wet canned food in the morning and let her graze on kibble the rest of the day. I've been feeding her the same types of food with very little variety. This is apparently the cause of her being so finicky so I recently sneaked in a bit of different canned food with her regular flavor just to get her to try other things. It worked. 

Anyway, I started the clicker training with some treats and she enjoyed the treats. She got it right away -- the treat & click association -- because whenever she'd see me holding the clicker, she'd come running.

But I also noticed that during the training sessions -- really short ones -- she'd stop munching on the treats and want petting instead.

Also, it seemed to me that she wanted more treats than her regular food. One morning, she ignored the canned food and just stared at me, waiting for those treats. Next thing I tried was just click and pet. That only briefly had her attention. Then she walked away.

According to one book I read, I should change her feeding schedule because if she's always full, I can't use food as a reward. I now try to feed her only 2x a day. I've been doing this for a week and it doesn't seem to be working. First, she isn't eating as much as she used to when she was grazing. Despite the fact that food only comes 2x a day, she'll still eat only the amount she used to eat when she was grazing. Second, she doesn't see her kibble as a reward during clicker training sessions. In other words, she ignores it when I toss it her way. 

What reward can I use? The petting isn't enough. The treats make her more fussy. The doesn't like the kibble as treats and the new feeding schedule isn't working. And should I just go back to letting her graze?

 

[catspaw66]

Sorry your post slipped past me.  First, what are you trying to train her to do?  Secondly, have you tried using Temptations brand treats? My cats love them. Last, keep her on scheduled feedings. Letting her graze gives her no reason to do anything you want her to do and can result in he being overweight.

Give her lots of attention all the time, and maybe then when you try the clicker and a good treat, she will respond more.

 

[jcat]

According to the book I have (Karen Pryor, Clicker Training for Cats), you should use something other than their regular cat treats, like cheese or meat cubes and throw in a little variety. I've been cutting up tiny bits of rabbit or kangaroo meat for Mogli and doing a short session about half an hour to an hour before a scheduled meal or snack. I don't let him graze because he'd overeat - he gets two main meals a day, spaced about 12 hours apart, and two small snacks in between ("lunch" and a "bedtime snack"). I've cut back on the amount he gets to snack on because of the clicker training. On weekends we do a morning and an evening session, on weekdays a late afternoon and evening session, so before lunch and his bedtime snack, or before dinner and his bedtime snack.

Have you looked at the freeze-dried all-meat treats for dogs? They're fine for cats, too, and might tempt her. A lot of cats like cheese, too - mozzarella or string cheese, for example.

 

[haiku17]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'd like to get her to come, sit, stay, and maybe do a trick or two. I'd also like to redirect her scratching. 

We don't have such a wide variety of brands of cat treats here so I get what's available. I can probably do chicken, meat, and cheese for her treats. 

I was reading this book (Naughty No More) and it said I should just feed her regular meals and not let her graze. The thing is, I'm out the whole day, so I can only schedule breakfast & dinner. What happens to her in between then? 

Also, she has been grazing for 3 years and never overeats. I've been following this two meals a day schedule and some treats with the training and no matter how hungry she might be, she still won't overeat. She'll eat a little of the kibble -- maybe expecting it to be there later on. 

 

[catspaw66]

So, you are wanting her to act like a dog? 

 

[haiku17]

Not really. When I introduced myself in another thread, I said I was doing this for productive fun. There's nothing wrong with Haiku that I want to correct other than that she occasionally scratches the wrong thing. 

 

[msbedelia]

How's the clicker training going, Haiku? We are doing a bit of clicker training in our house as well.  

 

[jcat]

So, you are wanting her to act like a dog? 

It's not a bad idea to have a cat come, sit, jump up or down, go into a carrier, etc., but the main point is providing some stimulating activity. Mogli loves his clicker training and reminds me when it's time for a session. Since I've taught him to sit, he's stopped shredding my legs while I'm getting his food ready, which is a big plus. He's also learned to get down off the kitchen sink when I say "Down!" and not just think about it. :lol3:

 

[haiku17]

Thanks msbedelia & jcat.

I've had to stop the clicker training for now because it's messing up her eating -- that is, when I put her on scheduled feeding (2x a day), she wasn't eating enough. I think I'll go back to getting her special treats and just keep the training sessions really, really short. Her attention span with the treats when I started was about 2 minutes long. haha

 

[msbedelia]

I know, it's so hard balancing them eating enough with withholding food for clicker training! I'm still working on that as well... Hoping to apply clicker-training to new kitty intros as the new kitty (who is the more aggressive one) begins to get it...

I'm unsure if pets work as treats for her. She's not the greatest at finding her food, and sometimes when I try to give her her reward, she'll just head butt my hand and love on me. ^^

 

[haiku17]

That's exactly what Haiku does. After very few treats, she does the head butt and affection thing. This is also why I was thinking of keeping the sessions really short.

 

[msbedelia]

I've read that many cats require very short sessions. Squeak is still getting the hang of the whole clicker thing, but I think she may always be a short session cat. My Gracie has quite a bit of staying power though! Also, for some cats, a pet may work enough as a reward, especially if there is intermittent food? Who knows. I keep telling myself its an experiment, and I don't have to do it right! I'll learn and correct S I go along. That's hard for me though, cause I'm such a perfectionist. 1

 

[haiku17]

I was thinking I'd do short sessions and intersperse treats with petting as well. And yes, this is an experiment. I should remind myself that, plus the fact, that I started this as more of a fun productive thing than anything else.

 

[belle8bete]

Hey, catspaw66

How is this for a cat that acts like a dog? As you can see, no clicker needed.  :-)

 

[haiku17]

Very nice. So cute.

 

[ravencorbie]

I've started clicker training with my cat, and it's been going well.  If anything, she's the one who wants to prolong the sessions before I know what I want to have her do next!  But I will add a caution against cheese:  my cat loved the cheese, but then she threw up.  One of my mom's cats always throws up with dairy, too, so test it before you go all out.  We've been using tuna since then.

 

[callista]

Well, I'm teaching my two some things--I should really try a clicker, but they seem content, for now, with just the joy of discovering something new, cuddles and me admiring them for being such smart kitties--but it certainly isn't to teach them how to act like dogs! Christy's game with knocking things out of my hand when I ask her to is entirely catlike, for example. She is catching on to it, but often grows bored if it's the same thing time after time. It's like she just goes, "Ugh, come on, not that again! Something new!" So, perhaps, if you have a cat that likes to think about things, a nice reward would be something new to explore, a favorite toy, a challenging game. It works with rats, who will run a maze faster to get something new to investigate in the goal box; and favorite toys work great for training working dogs, who can't be particularly food-motivated. Also, very short training sessions, just once, twice, maybe five times at most, until Kitty gets it a little better than before. Cats do like to investigate things and many will lose interest if things get too repetitive.

 

[catspaw66]

Hey, catspaw66

How is this for a cat that acts like a dog? As you can see, no clicker needed.  :-)

Wonderful. Now can you come and train mine? Actually, they are trained somewhat. I say 'out' and they sit by the door. When they are out, I go on the porch and say 'in' and most of the time they go in.  I say 'gooshyfood' and they run into the kitchen and wait by where I put their dishes down.

 

[pester]

I am having some similar issues with my early attempts at clicker training my new kitten.

I found some very helpful tutorials on You Tube by a fellow name Catmantoo

However I can't even get Pester to eat her treats. Or any treats for that matter. I've only had her two weeks, but so far she has only shown an interest in canned cat food. If I feed her treats they will sit ignored on the floor (or in her dish) for days.  I don't think she even recognizes them as edible. 

I've tried raw kangaroo, beef sirloin, salmon, dried liver. I'm starting to get frustrated. 

 

[catspaw66]

Don't get frustrated after only two weeks. Training a cat takes longer. The thing is patience, patience, patience. How old is your kitten?