Christmas.

[debby]

I think it is wonderful that your children believe in santa and the joy that it brings them! I sure don't have any problem at all with santa....he's a pretty good guy! :tounge2: I just am not going to teach Amber to believe in him, but that doesn't mean I think you are wrong for doing so, I think each person should decide for themselves if they want to tell their children about santa or not. I plan to tell her that santa is one of the symbols of Christmas because he is unselfish and brings gifts and joy to children, but that it is just like Sesamie street on TV, it doesn't really exist. Maybe that is wrong of me, but I don't think so. It's just the way I was raised, and I don't think I missed out on anything....I loved Christmas!

 

[valanhb]

Being a pagan myself, I want to step in for a moment. The date that Christmas is celebrated does go back to a pagan festival, as does Easter, (Halloween - that came much later), the whole calendar year. When Rome changed it's allegiance from the pagan gods to Christianity, they knew that they would not be able to convince the common people that they should give up all of the festivals. So they worked the Christian calendar into those already widely celebrated days and changed what the celebrations were for.

The commercial aspect of Christmas cannot be blamed on the pagans, but on modern business. All of the holidays are over-marketed, it's just so much more obvious with Christmas because of the tradition of presents which takes the forefront because there is a lot of money to be made. Is Memorial Day much more than a day off from work and good sales to most Americans?

BTW, the tradition of giving gifts was for the Wise Men who brought gifts for Baby Jesus. Gifts were originally exchanged in mid-January (Epiphany) to go with the Christian calendar. I'm not sure when that changed. Santa also had his origins in a Saint, St. Nicholas.

Yes, I do celebrate Christmas with my family, even as a pagan. Yes, we do read the story of Jesus' birth, as that is the reason for the holiday.

I will step away from this discussion now, and down from my soapbox.

 

[lorie d.]

I have copied some information from the site I provided a link to earlier to show what I mean by pagan origins of the commercial part of Christmas. This information is being used for reference purposes only.

"The Pagan Origin of The Christmas Tree

The concept of the Christmas Tree originated around 3000 B.C. in ancient Egypt with King Osiris and Queen Isis.

After the untimely death of King Osiris, his wife, Isis, propogated the demonic doctrine of the survival of Osiris as a spirit. She claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead stump, symbolising the new life of the Osiris spirit from his death. On each anniversary of Osiris birth, which was the date we now know as December 25th, Isis would leave gifts around this tree.

During the Middle Ages, the Germans believed the evergreen trees were especially imbued with life since they remained green throughout all of winter. Greenery was prominent in pagan winter celebrations in honour of the tree spirit or spirit of fertility.

The Romans trimmed the trees with trinkets and toys at that time of year. The Druids tied gilded apples to tree branches. For many, a tree decorated with orbs and fruit-like object symbolised the tree of life in the garden of Eden."

I have heard a similiar story from a source other than that web site. Also, Jeanie told us earlier that modern Christmas trees originated in Victorian England and were secular in nature.

 

[valanhb]

Lorie, although I know you only have the best of intentions, I looked at that site and found it to be a bit radical. Ok, a lot radical. I have studied Eqyptian mythology and I have never heard such a tale of an evergreen tree springing from Osiris' spirit nor of her leaving gifts. (To be fair, Egyptian mythology varied in the different regions, so it is entirely possible that some region did hold this belief.) The evergreen has long been seen as a truimph of life over death due to it staying green while everything else goes barren during winter, so I can see where there is that inference, though.

Here's a few sites that I found of the history of the Christmas tree. It does have pagan origins, I suppose. However the tree as we know it was done by Christians.

http://www.christmas-tree.com/where.html
http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html
http://arttech.about.com/library/weekly/aa120500a.htm
http://ks.essortment.com/historychristma_rfra.htm

I will completely agree that the origins of many of the celebrations can be traced back to pagan festivals and celebrations. However, the traditions have evolved with the times, and I do believe that most of the distortions of the true meaning of Christmas to Christians have come from modern money-grubbing. Sorry, but we pagans are a very small minority and cannot be blamed for everything wrong with society or what society has done.

 

[jeanie g.]

Ghyslaine, I do believe in Santa Claus! When my children asked the inevitable question, I told them he was the spirit of love and giving that thrives at Christmas. Then I read aloud, "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus." They never asked another question, so we all believe, but, as I said, the birth of the Savior is first. As long as Christians put Christ first and the secular traditions second, we're all right. However, the Pittsburgh area was so concerned about political correctness a few years ago that the official name for Christmas became "The Sparkle Season!" Now, that is ridiculous!

p.s. As Heidi said, Santa is Saint Nicholas, a man who gave gifts to needy children. That is the personification of the Christmas spirit. I repeat, "Let now thy right hand know what thy left hand doeth." KJV
That's what Santa does!

p.p.s. Yay! Lorie's posting! You know we love you!