Cat with FIV

[maureen brad]

In May I adopted Remy (age6) he had been with a local rescue for 3 years.My cat Ziggy had died 2 months before. He had been very sick for months. His illness was emotionally and financially draining. I made sure that before I adopted a cat he was healthy. I had been reassured that Remy was FIV/FeLV neg. Well , Remy seemed to be run down lately so I took him to a new vet ( I didn't feel old vet had given him a thorough exam originally) sure enough Remy has dental reabsorption and FIV.Truthfully I would not have adopted him had I known that. Now I love him and he is mine.Here is the problem. In Sept. I adopted a 10 month old cat- Desmond. Desmond is suddenly (just this week) really harassing Remy. Remy is a kind soul and now obviously feels threatened. Remy loves to play and wrestle so it isn't that Desmond is harassing him. How do I stop this? I am terrified that there will soon be serious fighting.I also have another cat Leo (*) he and Remy are very bonded and my vet says Remy has to be seperted from the other cats. Forever. I don't want to live that way. I would re-home Desmond but he is a little black cat and so has almost no chance at a new home. I will not bring him back to the shelter.Meantime I am so ticked at original vet. I asked him on the day I brought Remy home about his teeth. I was told Remy's teeth were fine unless "You are a purist" Remy always seemed kind of smelly and I couldn't bathe away the smell. His eyes were always runny (Lysine helps that) and he had a yeasty ear which that vet said was nothing that some cats "are just like that" Now I have a good vet but I seem to have a big problem.I am also mad at the rescue group. I got a letter from them when I adopted and I was told if I was worried about Remy's teeth they would pay for the work. I wrote back and told them the vet said his teeth were great. Never heard back. They won't pay for the dental now because it has been more than 1 month. Obviously they knew his mouth was bad.Any advice?

 

[ldg]

Hun, you need a new vet that understands FIV better. Even Cornell now says that it may be OK to intermingle FIV+ and FIV- cats: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fiv.html

I doubt very much that even if Remy gets VERY upset he will bite Desmond in a vicious enough way to cause transmission of FIV. It's possible, but not probable.

We have an FIV+ kitty inside, and two in the feral colony outside. Baloo is one of the feral colony cats that is FIV+. He is VERY alpha male, and often pins down, tackles, and bites Smokey on the neck and ear. He caused a wound once, at the base of Smokey's ear. We've had Smokey to the vet, and had him tested for FIV (several months after the incident, so if the transmission of the disease was going to occur, he would have tested positive. He didn't - he's still negative.

The thinking is that it takes a deep tissue bite wound to cause transmission. This makes sense if you think about it. In people (HIV), it's transferred by sex and sharing needles. Well, given cats puncture muscle and small veins, the virus isn't being deposited straight into the blood stream, as with needle-sharing in people. So the "cat equivalent" is deep tissue bite wounds. Those typically only happen in a serious cat fight - one precipitated by intact cats over territory or a female. That type of fighting just doesn't (usually) happen between our sterilized, indoor-only kitties.

I do know how you feel. Our Sheldon is sometimes very aggressive to Chumley, and we worry. Chumley also grooms our Billy at length - sometimes for hours, often focusing on his hears. Chum has lived inside with us for 3.5 years now. The boys all just had dentals, and we had Shel and Billy tested, just to make sure. They're both still FIV negative.

I see no reason to rehome or separate the boys. Just do your best to work off as much of Desmond's kitten energy as possible with LOTS and LOTS of play!

As to the teeth.... send the rescue group the new report. Tell them it is the new vet's opinion that the first report of the other vet was inaccurate. You realize the time problem - but that doesn't change Remy's medical (dental) need.

To learn more about things you can proactively do to help slow the growth of the virus in Remy, there is no better site than http://www.FIVtherapy.com.

I started a thread here, where I share what steps I'm taking for Chumley: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/259351/how-i-am-treating-chumleys-fiv

 

[maureen brad]

Thank you so much! I have been reading about Chumley. I have already decided that I will not keep Remy closed in a room alone. I think vets, no matter how good, tell you things like that because they are afraid that if 1 of your other cats become positive you will blame them. I have read a lot about FIV and while I wasn't happy to hear Remy had it I was not fearful except for the fact that he doesn't feel well.My concern is that if Desmond bites Remy hard he could contract FIV if he drew blood.I will send the rescue the dental report but I had contacted them and haven't heard back.the director (and founder) of the rescue , is who had written me, I still have her e-mail. She died a few weeks after that e-mail. The have a new set of people running the place so we will see what happens.Life is strange. Before I brought home Remy I had put Leo through a complete physical, blood work and a dental cleaning. I was told how sgreat his teeth were. 3 weeks after Remy came here Leo stopped eating and drinking. At that time the vet who had done the dental said Leo had very advanced Stomatitis. I wonder how that was missed during a dental? Well, you can see why I got a new vet. I am just sad because I thought I had asked all the right questions. thankfully Remy is a light in my life. There has never been a sweeter cat.

 

[ldg]

Oh I am sorry about the rescue group and the passing of the director/founder. I wouldn't hold out much hope of them keeping up that offer, but it never hurts to ask. :rub:

My vets are pretty FIV literate. They don't know much about the research or how to be proactive in helping slow its progression, they've just noted in Chumley's file the steps I'm taking. When we first rescued Chum, we didn't know a thing about it. They both (the vets - and they're at different practices) said that if we make proper introductions, keeping them all together *shouldn't* be a problem. They both cautioned that the risk exists, but so long as we understood that.... Personally, I prefer that to the "you HAVE to separate them!" mentality. But if he's otherwise a good vet, then just tell him what you've learned, and you won't be separating them. Maybe he'll learn something from your example. :heart2:

 

[ldg]

Oh - just some more info.

This is how FIV+ cats get adopted out that everyone thinks are FIV-.

Kitty is brought to rescue. Kitty is tested for FIV/FeLV. Kitty tests negative.

BUT... if kitty was in a cat fight over food - or if they weren't sterilized and so were fighting for any number of reasons - and got bitten even a few weeks prior to being brought to a shelter, they may still test negative. It can take up to 6 weeks or so for the antibodies to build up enough to register on the FIV / FeLV test that is run in a vet's office.

Remy may not even have FIV. There are a lot of false positives. And if he was a former pet, the owner may have had him vaccinated. A cat vaccinated for FIV will always test positive.

The Western Blot costs a lot (here it's around $175). But if you want to know for sure that Remy has FIV, it's the only way to know. And I think that it's not responsible of your vet to suggest separating the kitties without discussing with you the possibility of false positives, and how to confirm whether or not he actually has FIV. Whether or not to spend the money on it is a different issue. But at least to know it's an option - and that the in-office test may not be right....

 

[maureen brad]

Thank you for your reply. I did tell her that. She was just fine with it. I read a report that said vets will tell you to separate them just to cover themselves. people are sue happy and I can imagine someone suing if their previous FIV - cat turns up positive. I am actually thinking that because Remy has absorptive lesions and some stomatitis I may just go ahead with a full mouth extraction now. He still eats a lot, grooms etc. but once that stomatitis starts that is where it ends up. Maybe I should just do that now to prevent having to put him through repeated surgery.

 

[ldg]

Well, the problem is that even a full mouth extraction doesn't guarantee the problem is resolved.

Here's a good discussion, with information for both sides (full extraction, and no extraction): http://www.thecatsite.com/t/246925/severe-stomatitis-any-hope

 

[maureen brad]

Thanks Remy had the test. Then they ran it through the lab.I haven't got results from the Western Blot yet but with his eye, ears mouth etc. we expect it will be positive.I appreciate this sight so much. It is nice to be able to get advice. I just hope Desmond stops harassing Remy.That just started when Remy begin to feel ill. I guess some cats sense that. I really believe Des wants to play.Remy usually likes to wrestle around but he just isn't himself right now.

 

[ldg]

Aw, poor baby!

 

[maureen brad]

He needs at least a few extractions. He has reabsorption . They will know the full extent when he has his cleaning. I am floored by the price. $250 for the blood work. $875 for cleaning with estimate of 2 extractions.I wanted to go to a specialist but that charge is far more.I am afraid because the vet said they may not to  be able to take out the roots. Everything I have read says its very important that they do.He is eating fine, no drooling , bleeding etc.Maybe I should save to see the specialist.This is one reason I am mad at the rescue group. In march my cat Ziggy died and he had pancreatitis which lead to jaundice, liver failure etc.. Ultimately the ultrasound showed probable stomach cancer. I tried for 2 months but he couldn't be saved.I am terrified of not being able to afford Remy's care. That is why I would consider a full mouth extraction now His mouth isn't as bad now as it could get. Cats don't need their teeth and expensive as it is I wonder if I might be saving Remy a lot of future pain, constant vet visits and me a ton of money.

 

[sara457]

Wow, I hope you can get some money from the rescue. That's awful. You have a big heart to be caring for Remy (I would do the same) but many people wouldn't. So glad there are true cat lovers. I wish their was affordable health care for animals. It's so expensive! I spent over $5000 last year on my cat. Crystals and FeLV. The vet actually wanted our credit card before she'd unblock the poor things bladder.

Best of luck to Remy, and keep us updated.

 

[denice]

I was actually pleasantly surprised when Patches had his dental with two extractions this last time.  The dental was just under  $600.  He had his regular appointment a few days before and he gets blood work every 6 months.  That appointment was $180 but that included other things besides the blood work.  My other cat had a dental almost 3 years ago with five extractions.  With blood work it was almost $1400.  I don't know if they dropped their prices on their dentals or she gave me some discounts.  I have had several big ticket things done there over the past 3 years so maybe she discounted things a bit.

 

[maureen brad]

Thanks. I don't know how I am going to do this. My cat Ziggy was sick for  months before he died in March. we literally spent thousands. It is hard when you have to pay $76 just to have an appointment. I am also concerned that if they do not take out the roots it will all be for nothing and then I will have to pay the specialist.My dog got sick in June so that ran the debt up so high.All I can do is hit our home equity line or not pay the property taxes on time.The Rescue has not responded to my e-mails or phone calls.Hardly surprising. I am surprised however that they had to have known about his mouth. I have seen them have other cats with stomatitis up for adoption and they have paid for those cats extractions.I think poor Remy is so quiet he just fell by the wayside in their shelter.I guess first things first. I have to talk again to the vet about why they do not take the roots. I am going to give her copies of all the literature I have on the subject. I can't tell her that after these extractions I cannot come right back for more radiography. I assume the have to put him under for that and so that means another $250 for blood work and at least $250 for the radiograph.Who can afford this stuff?Maybe I should tell my kids "no more college for you". Lol, Now I must break it to my husband.Cross your fingers, if you hear a loud roar you will know how he took the news.

 

[maureen brad]

$1400? My goodness. I have been quoted $3000 here. Seems everything is more expensive here (Silicon Valley).I took my Leo for a physical and dental last May and altogether the cost was about $1200.One of our kids got into a terrible accident a few months ago he lost a leg , broke his hips injured his spine etc. No health insurance so we have been helping him. I just do not know how to tell my husband about Remy. I had promised before I adopted Remy that I would be as sure as is possible that the cat I brought home was healthy. I even took him on a foster to adopt so that I could have him checked out before adopting. Rotten ex vet. Rotten rescue. Sorry if I sound bitter. Well, hubby has a heart we will figure it out.

 

[sarahliz]

I don't have any specific advice for you, but I wanted to let you know my cat Chowder is FIV+, too. There are quite a few people here (I think) with FIV+ cats, so you'll find lots of support! :nod:

 

[maureen brad]

SarahLiz, Thank you. I have been reading everyone's stories about living with an FIV + cat. I have no fear of having Remy with my FIV- cats. I am just surprised that he is positive. The rescue had tested him but it was in 2011 and I was naïve in not realizing that he had been in a cageless shelter for years and while he was negative then he obviously contarcted it at some point in the between years.

 

[maureen brad]

I think I finally have some good news. looked on Yelp for some Pet Hospital reviews. I found one nearby with 73 good reviews. I decided to drive down and see what they had to offer.Very nice staff and I found that they are one of only 4 places in the area with the modern radiography equipment to do the complicated extractions needed for a cat with resorption and stomatitis. I had thought the nearest place was about an hour away. I asked them if I should keep Remy separate from my others and they said no( I like that ) and when I asked if I decided to go for a full mouth extraction rather than a couple here and there how much would it be and they said $1,500. OMG I almost fainted. I have an appointment with the vet tomorrow for an exam and feel hopeful. The place was state of the art spate clinic for cats and dogs even cat climbing shelves all over the exam rooms. The office manager spent 40 minutes talking to me and showing me around.And that was with me just walking in. Also found that if I like this place I will save money their office visit fee is $20 less. $30 less than the horrible vet I used to see. Keep your fingers crossed for Remy.

 

[ldg]

Oh that is GREAT!

for tomorrow!!!!

 

[maureen brad]

Ha, I was so excited when I typed the above message- just realized what I wrote- should read state of the art- sorry.

 

[ldg]

Figured it out.