Cat trying to play with me by biting/scratching - any advice?

[seulf]

Hello again! My boy Indiana has had issues with biting me since he was a kitten, he gets into playful moods and takes out his energy on me by jumping on me and biting or clawing me, he is 18 pounds of muscle and not declawed, and can usually make it up to my shoulder with one jump! Following the advice of the lovely people here, I got him a playmate as soon as I moved out of my parents' house, and the two bonded VERY quickly and now play with each other every day, groom each other, snuggle, etc. It did help with Indy's behavior for a while, but now he is at it again.

What bothers me is that he is not overly active, he has more energy than my previous cats, but he doesn't run around the house like a maniac like he did when he was a kitten... He is almost two years old now, all of that kitten spunkiness is out of him. My new kitten, Nicolai, is slightly more calm than Indy but not even a year old yet, so he keeps up with Indy's rambunctious spurts like a champ. But since Indy sleeps most of the day like a normal kitty should, his playful times are EXTREMELY fast-paced and come on with very little warning, and end very quickly. They are never overly rough with each other though, and Indy is usually the one to quit playing first.

I've tried everything I can think of for him. I've given him balls to play with, Kong kickers, recessed ball tube toys, feather wands, pet lasers, and, yes, his little brother! I've tried opening windows to let him watch the world outside, i've tried those cat babysitter videos, and i've tried engaging him in safe play with the aforementioned toys. But he gets this wild look in his eye sometimes, and when he's got it, all he wants to do is sneak up on me and claw the living heck out of my arms, or sink his teeth into me. He usually tries it at least once a day. I am sporting three fresh scratches from this morning already, and on Monday of this week he jumped on me and bit me a grand total of four times.

The one thing that works to scare him off is if I catch him in the act and growl at him, but that means constantly being on my guard, and being extremely wary when he's near me and not sleeping. I hate that! He's my kitty, I shouldn't be afraid of him. And I worry that stressing out over it is something he can sense and might be making it worse, but when I let my guard down and try to trust him, he still does it.

As a sidenote, Nico has never hurt me, and he is ridiculously good at playing gently. I can rub his stomach and bat at his paws, and when he grabs me and gnaws on my fingers, he never closes down with his mouth, and he never pulls his claws out. So whatever Indy's issue is, he isn't teaching it to his brother.

Both of my boys are neutered, and not declawed. They've been settled into their new home for four months now, and the move didn't affect either of them adversely. They've been on the same dry food since I got them (Blue Buffalo, kitten formula for Nico, adult formula for Indy), and Indy's problems happened long before my move.

Has anyone else had issues with this? And if so, do you have any advice? Because right now all I feel like I can do is wear multiple sweatshirts around the house to guard my arms!

 

[momofmany]

Sounds like your boy has Play Aggression. There is an outstanding sticky on the topic here. Give it a read and see if that will help your situation.

I have an over stimulation biter myself. It took a while to figure out when he had his limit before he'd bite me, but once I did, I've not had problems in a couple of years. I followed the advice in this sticky and it worked.

Good luck!

 

[feralvr]

Hi . Here is another article that might help you a bit. I know your cat is not overtly aggressive, but this article might give you some insight on his behavior too. It sound's like your cat gets over-stimulated and reacts out by biting/scratching. Pretty common. And as Amy says, you just have to learn the signs BEFORE the behavior starts. Good luck and keep us posted !!!!

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/cat-aggression-toward-people

 

[seulf]

Thank you both for the links - unfortunately neither of them have given me much insight. As a kitten I used the "put him in a quiet room" trick quite often, and have reverted back to it now, but it hasn't decreased the frequency of his play-attacks. Standing still only makes him play more. If I am watching him I can catch him in the act and growl at him to make him stop, but most of the time he sneaks up on me. Right now he is banished from my bedroom for a few hours so that I can get some work done without him biting me (AGAIN... he already did once this morning!) but I hate doing that to him, and to his little brother, especially since Nico hasn't done anything wrong.

 

[momofmany]

Can I ask what types of things did you try from those articles? And did he respond, at least in part, to any of them? I'm trying to get a better idea from you on where his boundaries are. Before he gets his wild eyes, have you noticed anything that may have happened to set him off? It could be as innocent as a certain time of day, or if you are doing something around your home, or even a truck driving by.

I've only known 1 cat that was set off randomly, there is usually a trigger event. If you find that trigger event, you can either try to eliminate the trigger, or be prepared for his antics once it happens. If you can't find the trigger, then you are forced to respond to him when the attack occurs. I've found that clapping my hands with a loud NO causes mine to stop (or at least pause), which is the time I give them a positive alternative to play with or a time out (5 minutes) in the bathroom.

Consistency is important when you try to modify this type of behavior. If you chose time outs again, do it every time he acts up and do it immediately. I got my Stumpy to stop attacking my Muddy with time outs - took a couple of weeks but it worked eventually. My preference is usually positive redirection to play items, but Stumpy is very stubborn and isn't into toys that much.

 

[p3 and the king]

How do you approach your cat?  Do you corner them?... Do your hands look like toys as you are approaching to grab them?  If so, don't hesitate and talk in a playful mode.  Just grab them calmly and seriously.  Cats feed off and react to OUR energy.  As all animals do.  Body language is how they communicate.  Same way they communicate with us.  If he is giving warning signs, don't touch him.  Don't corner him. 

If it is just play aggression, you need to channel that energy in a healthier way.  People make it too complicated with a cat. Cats are not as difficult as dogs.  It doesn't have to be a chore.  It can be fun for both of you.  Try taking him for a walk outside with a harness.  Or you can get the feather toy that mimiks a real bird.  They can be found at any pet specialty store.  Just say you want the bird toy that looks real.  It takes care of their prey drive.  My cats LOVE that toy!!  It's fun for them and fun for you.  AND, your hands aren't prey any more!!

 

[seulf]

Can I ask what types of things did you try from those articles? And did he respond, at least in part, to any of them? I'm trying to get a better idea from you on where his boundaries are. Before he gets his wild eyes, have you noticed anything that may have happened to set him off? It could be as innocent as a certain time of day, or if you are doing something around your home, or even a truck driving by.
I've only known 1 cat that was set off randomly, there is usually a trigger event. If you find that trigger event, you can either try to eliminate the trigger, or be prepared for his antics once it happens. If you can't find the trigger, then you are forced to respond to him when the attack occurs. I've found that clapping my hands with a loud NO causes mine to stop (or at least pause), which is the time I give them a positive alternative to play with or a time out (5 minutes) in the bathroom.
Consistency is important when you try to modify this type of behavior. If you chose time outs again, do it every time he acts up and do it immediately. I got my Stumpy to stop attacking my Muddy with time outs - took a couple of weeks but it worked eventually. My preference is usually positive redirection to play items, but Stumpy is very stubborn and isn't into toys that much.

Certainly! To start, he's been neutered, has been since before I got him. His environment hasn't changed in months, we moved at the end of August and his problems went away for a little while, I think because he had a new area to explore. But we haven't switched his food or litter, and since we moved into this apartment we haven't changed anything up on him. I never get aggressive with him. I've tried to distract him with toys, removing him from the area to let him calm down, and putting him in time-out in the bathroom by himself for about five minutes. He's not very fond of toys either, except for a few foam balls that we got at Petsmart, but he only likes those when HE chooses to play with them, they don't snap him out of his bitey moods.

His attacks happen at any time of the day, except from between noon to 4, because that's his nap time. I am almost always sitting in my chair at my desk, though I have had him jump on me while sleeping as well. Sometimes he will attack out of the blue, and sometimes it happens right after he's been playing with his brother. Half of the time he prefaces his attacks by sitting next to my chair, and his pupils get wide. But at those times I can stop him by growling a warning at him. The other half of the time he slides right in without me even noticing and doesn't give any sort of warning.

For the time-outs, I used them for months, up until we moved to this apartment. Then I started only removing him from the room, but about a month ago I began using time-outs again because the attacks were getting a bit more frequent.
 

How do you approach your cat?  Do you corner them?... Do your hands look like toys as you are approaching to grab them?  If so, don't hesitate and talk in a playful mode.  Just grab them calmly and seriously.  Cats feed off and react to OUR energy.  As all animals do.  Body language is how they communicate.  Same way they communicate with us.  If he is giving warning signs, don't touch him.  Don't corner him. 

If it is just play aggression, you need to channel that energy in a healthier way.  People make it too complicated with a cat. Cats are not as difficult as dogs.  It doesn't have to be a chore.  It can be fun for both of you.  Try taking him for a walk outside with a harness.  Or you can get the feather toy that mimiks a real bird.  They can be found at any pet specialty store.  Just say you want the bird toy that looks real.  It takes care of their prey drive.  My cats LOVE that toy!!  It's fun for them and fun for you.  AND, your hands aren't prey any more!!

I never corner my boys or chase them down, they are very trusting. My little one comes to me when I call him, and Indy (the bitey one) will rub his body up against things when I come near him and start purring. He lets me scoop him up and give him love without any issue. They've never been aggressive towards my hands. Indy's issues almost always crop up when I am not paying attention to him at all.

 

[p3 and the king]

OK, then my advice about channeling their energy in a more positive (for you) way of playing and interacting with you still stands.  You still find their bahavior inappropriate.  So, channel it in a better way.  Like some others, not on this board, but in life that I know... I do not believe in a firm "NO" or slapping a cat (or any animal for that matter).  This just confuses them.  Cats are very smart and if you start showing them other ways of playing that don't hurt you, they catch on pretty quickly and the behavior can change almost instantly.  You just have to set your mind to do it.  That's all!!  Best of luck. 

Along with the feather wand that mimiks a bird, laser light chasers are good and any interactive toy really.  Burn off their excess energy.  They will be happier and you will be too... And a lot less sore.

 

[momofmany]

I do not believe in a firm "NO" or slapping a cat (or any animal for that matter).  This just confuses them.  Cats are very smart and if you start showing them other ways of playing that don't hurt you, they catch on pretty quickly and the behavior can change almost instantly. 

Let me clarify my point about "NO". Used by itself it does confuse them. If not followed up by some type of redirection, it serves little purpose. I like the analogy of trying to teach a child in school when trying to learn math. If you ask a child with no previous knowledge what 2 + 2 is, then punish them when they couldn't answer the questions, would they ever learn the answer is 4? Perhaps over time by trial and error, but they would be terrible frustrated by the punishment in the mean time.

Likewise with a cat. Punishment alone doesn't teach them proper behavior. A "NO" distracts them long enough to start the redirection, and eventually can be enough of a cue word to them to redirect them to the positive behavior without you needing to intervene. But they have to learn the lesson first. When redirection fails, or you absolutely know they know the proper behavior, then a time out is useful. My Stumpy usually stops chasing Muddy with a simple NO, as he knows he's not supposed to do that. He'll come up to me and snuggle because positive time with mom is his redirection. When that fails because Stumpy is frustratingly stubborn at times, he gets time outs.

 

[p3 and the king]

Let me clarify my point about "NO". Used by itself it does confuse them. If not followed up by some type of redirection, it serves little purpose. I like the analogy of trying to teach a child in school when trying to learn math. If you ask a child with no previous knowledge what 2 + 2 is, then punish them when they couldn't answer the questions, would they ever learn the answer is 4? Perhaps over time by trial and error, but they would be terrible frustrated by the punishment in the mean time.
Likewise with a cat. Punishment alone doesn't teach them proper behavior. A "NO" distracts them long enough to start the redirection, and eventually can be enough of a cue word to them to redirect them to the positive behavior without you needing to intervene. But they have to learn the lesson first. When redirection fails, or you absolutely know they know the proper behavior, then a time out is useful. My Stumpy usually stops chasing Muddy with a simple NO, as he knows he's not supposed to do that. He'll come up to me and snuggle because positive time with mom is his redirection. When that fails because Stumpy is frustratingly stubborn at times, he gets time outs.

Momofmany, I wasn't talking about anyone on this board.  Hopefully no one on here SCREAMS at or slaps their cat.  I too, do say "No" calmly but seriously and they do stop what they are doing.  I meant people that scream it.  This only confuses them.  Agreed? 
 

 

[momofmany]

Momofmany, I wasn't talking about anyone on this board.  Hopefully no one on here SCREAMS at or slaps their cat.  I too, do say "No" calmly but seriously and they do stop what they are doing.  I meant people that scream it.  This only confuses them.  Agreed? 

 

Sorry, didn't get you were talking about screaming NO. :lol3:

Screaming never works, just scares them.