Cat pees in litter but then promptly poops outside, help!

[angst]

Hi,

I should start off by saying I am TOILET training my two russian blue (mix) kittens.

There's Alaistor, who's about 7 months old, and Remus who's about 4.5-5 months old.

I'm using the CitiKitty toilet training method, following the directions exactly. I have tried emailing CitiKitty, but I think this is a behavior problem.

I can completely answer any questions as I have these cats on a 24 hour webcam and observe them (even from work) when they think I can't see them.

For about 3 weeks I had them on the first stage (using the litter box inside of the toilet bowl). This went off without a hitch. They were both peeing and pooping in the litter box in the toilet.

This Friday night, I removed a tiny little first ring. Remus got it right away, peed, pooped, got two of his favorite treats (hey, I like to reward them when they do well) and got let out of the bathroom to explore the rest of the house. Good boy. Got a rub down. I did this IN FRONT of Alaistor so that he would see: pee + poop + toilet = treats and more affection. It worked. Alaistor peed and pooped in the toilet, got two of his favorite treats, a rub-down, and was allowed to go free from the bathroom.

Saturday morning around 6am, I woke up to find Alaistor pooping on the carpet. Bad kitty. I didn't scold him, but moved him straight to the bathroom (they have adequate food, water, and "toilet" plus cat nip (natural) and toys in the bathroom, so they're not exactly roughing it). During this whole process I haven't scolded the cats for anything (only method of negative reinforcement is water squirts never spankings or yelling) at all like begging for food, crawling on the counter tops, etc, I am not punishing them at all during this phase.

Back to the story... Remus, loves his brother and cried the whole time he was allowed to roam free and do as he pleased. He wanted back in the bathroom, so I let him back in. Him and his brother played around, ate, slept, drank, etc.

Me and my g/f would even go into the bathroom and hold the cats and sit with them, pet them, etc.

Alaistor went to the bathroom properly again, so I gave him two of his favorite treats (once for pee, once for poop), petted him, told him he was a "good boy" and let him roam free. About 4 hours later, Alaistor went and pooped on an empty grocery bag we were letting them play with. Back to the bathroom for him. As usual, Remus wanted in to see his brother so we let him in.

He ate, slept, drank, played with toys, played with his brother (repeat for 4-5 hours), then went pee and poop in the toilet, got promptly rewarded and released.

The strangeness comes in later on Saturday... I sensed Alaistor was starting to poop in the living room (again) by his pawing of the carpet, and "the squat" so I promptly (but not startlingly) picked him up and returned him to the bathroom. I even placed him on the toilet/litter box. He hopped down, and pooped right on the floor. The box had totally fresh litter.

So I read on a website if you're having a problem with the cat going else-where, you should keep them in the bathroom until they go, reward them when they do, and let them out for a couple of hours (and repeat)... so I've been doing that since, but here's his current pee-poop problem:

- He will PEE in the litterbox/toilet
- He will promptly hop down, and poop right on the floor

What gives? Anything I can try? I think he's having a showdown with me to see who's sanity will last longer, or he's rebelling.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mike

(btw, Remus is doing spectacularly -- he's not stupid: he knows what gets him treats, exploration privileges, and massages)

I know this is assuming a lot, but I'm totally willing to let the cats run the house as long as they can use the toilet. Having a litter box (or even more than 1) in a one bedroom apartment is hellish -- I'm losing weight from the smells making me lose my appetite, that's why I'm trying to litter train them.

By the way, they were perfectly box trained before this.

 

[angst]

Here is an attached photo

 

[brookesphynx]

Maybe you could try going back to the first step, without the small ring missing from the litter pan? Make sure Alaistor is pooping consistently in that pan before removing the small ring.

I tried toilet training a cat years ago and had the exact same problem - he peed in it all the time, but I could never get him to poop in the toilet. I finally gave up after a few weeks and went back to a regular litter box. In retrospect, I think I was pushing the process along too quickly.

Good luck! I'm sure with a lot of patience and consistency, he'll get the hang of it. You might also consider getting a good enzymatic cleaner to rid the floor of any smell where he's pooping (Nature's Miracle or something similar). Even if you can't smell it any more after you clean it up, chances are he still can, and might think it's okay to go there again.

 

[angst]

Thanks. This is driving me up the wall (although I don't let them see it).

I've been using Clorox Bathroom Cleaner with bleach to clean up the messes. Is bleach not strong enough to clean up a pet mess?

 

[brookesphynx]

Originally Posted by angst

Thanks. This is driving me up the wall (although I don't let them see it).

I've been using Clorox Bathroom Cleaner with bleach to clean up the messes. Is bleach not strong enough to clean up a pet mess?

I feel your pain! ...like I said, I finally gave up, but the thought of never touching litter is almost worth trying again!

I've heard that cleaners scented like pine, lemon and even bleach can often smell like urine to a cat, making them believe it's an okay place to poop or pee. So, yes, I'm sure the bleach is getting it clean and sanitary but leaving a scent behind that might be enticing him to go there again. That's the benefit of using the enzymatic cleaners - they (are supposed to) eliminate any pet odors completely.

 

[momofmany]

Many cats simply will not pee and poop in the same place. This is why we recommend that you have at least 1 litter box per cat plus one extra (2 cats = 3 boxes). Training them to use the toilet sounds like a great idea, but it is not a natural place for cats to eliminate. I would leave a box out for them and let them chose where they want to go.

Bleach will not neutralize pet elimination odors. For that you need something that will neutralize the smell such as Nok Out or Zero Odor (the best 2 products out there). Some folks have success with Nature's Miracle, but I don't like the chemical smell in it and it doesn't work as good as Nok Out.

 

[angst]

Do the enzymatic cleaners make the area safe (like free of bacteria and germs) or do I have to clean with bleach first, then clean with an enzymatic cleaner?

 

[momofmany]

Nok Out kills bacteria. I don't know about the others.

 

[salsanchips]

I have three cats and two litter boxes with nary an accident. But -- I have to change them out EVERY DAY. If they get dirty, the cats will get upset and start yowling, scratching to go outside and being generally disruptive. That, and I can't stand the smell of a dirty litter box

So, I go through a LOT of cat litter (just buy the cheapest stuff at Wal-Mart).

I have noticed that size matters. Litter box size I mean

Too small a box and they will pee but not poop in it. Cats seem to want more room for the latter and forced to use a small box, they will just do it outside the box. Or in a laundry basket full of clothes (ask me how I know).

 

[angst]

Caught him squatting on Saturday right near me. Immediately picked him up and put him on the toilet. So far, no accidents. Perhaps he just associated "poop" with treats no matter where it was? Now he's consistently going in the toilet since I did that.

 

[shanynne]

Definitely having a litter box in a one bedroom apt. with two cats is not easy. You say the smell of the litter box is making you sick. Let me ask you this, what kind of litter were you using? What kind of litter box did you have? How often did you clean it out?

Cats don't like to do their business close to where their food is so if you are going to continue on the toilet training route, you should put their food somewhere else.

Personally, I am totally against toilet training for cats. It's simply not natural to them. As I mentioned in a prior thread:

What happens when you are away on a trip though, or out shopping? Any chance the cat can fall in the toilet? Do you have to leave the ring thingie on the toilet all the time for the cat?


Another thing to consider is that what happens if you ever have to leave your cat overnight at the vets? He will have a hard time with the litter tray for sure.

And last thing that comes to mind, what if your cat ever gets sick and is too weak to jump up onto toilet?

Also, I wouldn't use a water bottle to spray them for discipline. Water could get into their eyes and ears and possibly cause infections.

 

[angst]

Ok, here's what I figured out with Alaistor:

He was associating "poop" with "treat". I let him out and watched him (ugh. I sometime do have better things to do than watch my cats like a hawk 24/7, plus I believe in "trust" -- but whatever, separate rant) and caught him mid squat, picked him up, and put him right on the toilet. He didn't freak out, he let me pick him up during the poop squat. He pooped in the toilet (with an assist by me) and only needed 1 refresher 2 poops later. So far it's been about 10 days with no accidents! Thinking about removing another ring this Wednesday!

I did the math, even if I never ween them off the treats, feeding them treats and having them use the toilet is still cheaper than kitty litter for a lifetime of the cat! I really hope I can toilet train them! Remus is doing well and hasn't made 1 mistake yet, although he's showing disinterest in treats, so I'm unsure of how it'll be to continue training him. He seems to like just sitting on my lap being rubbed. Maybe that is his favorite reward?

Wish me luck!

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Momofmany

Many cats simply will not pee and poop in the same place. This is why we recommend that you have at least 1 litter box per cat plus one extra (2 cats = 3 boxes). Training them to use the toilet sounds like a great idea, but it is not a natural place for cats to eliminate. I would leave a box out for them and let them chose where they want to go.

Bleach will not neutralize pet elimination odors. For that you need something that will neutralize the smell such as Nok Out or Zero Odor (the best 2 products out there). Some folks have success with Nature's Miracle, but I don't like the chemical smell in it and it doesn't work as good as Nok Out.

I agree with this post.

I have a friend whose cat toilet trained himself. She does keep a litter box out for him too, so he always has a choice.

And yes, being at the vet is a problem, especially as he has a chronic urinary tract disease.

I prefer the litter boxes. It's easier to keep track of who is doing what, when.

 

[nekomania]

I kind of think that toilet training isn't a good idea. I can't imagine what guests in my house would think if they found a floater in my toilet...

I would be so embarrassed.


If it doesn't work out you should consider getting a covered litter box, clay based litter, and clean it daily. I have no litter smells at all.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Nekomania

I kind of think that toilet training isn't a good idea. I can't imagine what guests in my house would think if they found a floater in my toilet...

I would be so embarrassed.


If it doesn't work out you should consider getting a covered litter box, clay based litter, and clean it daily. I have no litter smells at all.

me either. I never understand people who complain aobut litter box odor, I can only think the boxes aren't being kept clean enough. I have three cats, four boxes. No odor, ever.

 

[angst]

Trust me, I was cleaning the litter 3-4 times a day. Alaistor just won't go in a dirty/smelly box. Cleaning the litter 3-4x a day was starting to get on my nerves. I can't imagine doing that for 20 more years, without at least having tried to toilet train them. I also had to throw out the litter and give them fresh every week. That was starting to get real expensive real fast. At this rate, over the next 20 years (without inflation), I'd be paying 10k on kitty litter alone!

 

[otto]

I do scoop my litter boxes four times a day. It doesn't bother me to do it, but everyone is different.

I hope the problem has been solved now, but if not, I think offering him an alternative place to poop (a litter box near the toilet) might be the solution.

 

[angst]

The previous cats that were my masters didn't need their litter box cleaned so much. Maybe once every couple of days... which didn't bother me. But I also have a 1 bedroom apartment right now. So having a litter box just stinks up the entire apartment.