Cat Introduction Woes

[losna]

 
tempest really is a beautiful girl! she and sinbad almost look like they're siblings.

We mainly wanted to get cats who were less likely to otherwise be adopted, so it's amazing to me that we wound up with such beautiful cats. We keep getting told that we're being remarkably patient with Tempest, but we were warned before adopting her that she would take patience and time so I don't think we're doing anything amazing.  ADmittedly, we didn't expect it to be this much time! But the shelter did warn us that she had serious abandonment issues and needed to be in her own space for at least 2 weeks, most likely closer to a month before she would start trusting us. She's a mature cat, and had been returned several times already, each time it becomes harder to get her adopted out as she becomes warier. I think I mentioned somewhere that the shelter extended the usual amount of time to take back a cat for her by 6 months - that should give you an idea of the amount of effort they warned us to expect with her.

But now she is such a sweetheart.  She rolls around on the carpet like a little otter when we pet her, just completely luxuriating in the affection. And I can totally see little cartoon hearts floating above her head when my husband pays attention to her. It's especially cute that she only looks at him like that when he can't see it! 

They are both such darling, sweet, amazing, affectionate cats. I really can't wait until she figures out that Sinbad is just an overgrown, overly-enthusiastic kitten, and all he wants to do is love, snuggle and groom her.  I wish I could tell her that it's true he is a bit of a barbarian in cat terms, but all he wants to do is be one big family with her and everyone. But I agree with her, he is a bit of a barbarian. You should see the way she gapes at him when he grooms. He seriously sounds like he's slurping up the dregs of a milkshake. He's so loud you can hear him across most of the house when he's grooming himself outside her room.

 

[smokem]

I had a pdiatric nurse teacher -she would say "potential people"..

ah you know the wee ones ..or

learning has taken place!!

 

[mservant]

Love your description of Sinbad's bath time!  LoL   Tempest is going to have to show him how to do it properly once she's confident when he's around!  Kitty grooming lessons, how cute.

What a shame Tempest never lets your DH see how much she adores him.  

  Sweet.

 

[losna]

My husband thinks his slurping is due to his underbite. He has a difficult time with anything requiring moving his jaws. He likes social time while eating, but I'd stay with him even if he didn't! That turned out to be a good thing earlier, he had trouble with a piece of bone. I was super touched when all it took for him to calm down and stop panicking was me touching his back and telling him he's ok, I'll help him.  

I'm happy though even with that bad moment - today they've gotten extra treats TWICE due to interacting with each other!!!!! We actually pondered another short face to face meeting with them! Ultimately we decided not to, but I am super pleased that they were reacting well enough to each other today that the subject even came up. 

 

 

[ruaryx]

I've always fantasized about going to an animal shelter and adopting the ones least likely to get adopted.  I have a soft spot for runts.  It may not seem like it, but you're living my dream.  Good luck with Sinbad and Tempest!  

 

[losna]

Update time: We just had an event that I'm not sure whether it is a hopeful sign or not.

Sinbad managed to get into Tempest's safe room today while I was bringing her breakfast. He very cleverly waited until I was in the midst of putting the gate back in to make his move and I wasn't able to catch him before he was in and seeking Tempest love.

She, of course, fled. And we had a very noisy cat chase around Tempest's safe room.

But here's the kicker - she only ran. And every time he cornered her, she simply turned and literally jumped over him, using his shoulders as a springboard. He thought they were playing, I could see no aggression or anything in their body language - just panic in hers and play chase excitement in his. This was proved when I managed to get my hands on him and simply grabbed and lifted him. 

Once I grabbed Sinbad, Tempest fled into her hidey spot beneath the chair, and wouldn't come out even for my husband. But - she only hid for about 10 minutes. She's out again already, although going no where near the door where Sinbad is back in stalker mode.

I'm hoping this all is a good sign - I mean, I'm upset that she was scared, but now she (hopefully) knows that she can literally jump over him so he can't corner her, and in all previous encounters between them when she's been scared, she's stayed hidden for hours, not minutes. But I'm also worried that this means her safe room might not feel safe any more.

So here's to hoping. 

We're still holding off on the giant cat condo until they are fully integrated, but we think after this encounter that we're going to pick up another one or two of the simpler, taller towers than what we've got now. 

 

[smokem]

snicker..I dont mean to laugh at your troubles,but that sounds  funny.

She jumped over him??Ha Ha ,bet he didnt see that coming.

Really sounds like progress to me.Worst that could happen,she

beats him up,too much to hope that he might change/adapt a little.

Like ,come on little fella,CALM DOWN !

 

[mservant]

Sounds like progress to me too:  that she is still stressed is sad but at least she has found she can escape from him, and that she settled and came out after only 10 minutes is a huge shift.  Continue to take it slow for her and I am sure you will see things settle further.

 

[losna]

@smokem  Yeah, she jumped right over him. Not once or twice - but three times. I managed to catch Sinbad on the third such jump because despite their moving faster than I could react, once that started to happen I knew where he would be so I grabbed at the air and he was there by the time my motion completed. I would have laughed if I hadn't been so upset that she was running around the room in a panic.

It's been weird since then. He is SO HAPPY!!! He thinks they were playing. He loves playing chase so much he starts purring super loudly the moment anyone even makes a move that might be chasing. That's part of how I know he thought they were playing, when I grabbed him, his legs were flailing and he was purring in exactly the same way he does it when he's 'caught' after a game of chase. I guess he thought it was a 3way family game - he chased Tempest and I chased him.

She's been ... odd. I know Sinbad better than my husband does, but he knows Tempest better than I do. And he has said a few times that it seems like she might have been playing with Sinbad. But she's afraid and stressed as well, so he's not sure what to make of how she's been acting since then. 

 

[smokem]

They are coming along,surely.Maybe Sinbad will get  a playmate after all.

It sounds like human sibs,you know "dont touch me!!Mommmm..."

maybe they have to work through the kitten stage,maybe calm down some after that.

Hopefully,learn to love each other for the longterm.He certainly is willing.

My two took 2 years(adults),finally sharing space peacefully.But,Smoke still tries to mount

Cookie before meals.And they fight over the litter box.

Actually,he is fussy over the litter box use,sometimes I have to guard it so she can go.

These cats are 10 years old mind you.

They remind me of brother /sister little ones.

 

[losna]

We had an amazing breakthrough last night that has me just so happy!!

Sinbad was sound asleep in my husband's desk last night when Tempest started making her sad little "someone come play with me I'm all alone here and I want company" noises. So I went up to see her. Since Sinbad was sound asleep, I left the top gate down when I went in. Tempest was in full on cute mode. She immediately jumped into my lap, began kneading and purring, and rubbing up against my hands to encourage as many pets as she could. I still don't understand how she could have been abandoned once, let alone 4 times!!

Then suddenly, she jumped off me. I looked over, and sure enough, there was Sinbad at the gate, leaning up on top of it and staring in. Not wanting another chase scene, I immediately shooed him away and put the top gate back up.

And that's when Tempest did something completely astonishing. She gave me her perfected sulky 'you've just committed a horrible crime' look, and ran up to the gate, put her two paws on it, sort of tugged/clawed at it looked at me, then ran back a few feet and sat there looking at me with her tail rippling impatiently. I couldn't believe it, but she seemed to be telling me to take that gate down immediately. So I very slowly moved to take it down, watching for any signs of distress. I didn't want a repeat of the last wild chase.

The moment the top gate was down - she ran right up to it, and pushed her nose through the holes in the bottom gate! This caused Sinbad to come over to her, and he bumped his nose right up against hers.

She never made a move to climb up and interact with him over the top of the gate, but she spent a good 10 minutes interacting with him in this way with no signs of distress or fear! And he kept a gauge on himself - he never tried to climb up or throw himself at her the way he usually does!  After about 10  minutes Tempest had had enough, but she still didn't show any fear of him, she just moved away from the gate and started hanging out at the other end of the room.  I was so excited. I gave them a ton of praises, and some treats.

I don't know why she suddenly decided to do that, but I'll take it. He did just have a bout of constipation that was so bad he was crying in pain and the vet wanted to keep him overnight - and every time he started crying she would go up to the gate and look down with a concerned expression. We didn't leave him because of his abandonment issues, and she spent much of that night sort of standing vigil at her gate - so it could be that the combination of having been able to jump over him and his obvious pain caused her to see him as less of the threat he'd been previously. Yesterday was the first day he's had normal bowel movements, so maybe she was just glad to see he was alright.

Hopefully this is a trend that continues and she'll be ready to come out and fully interact with everyone soon.

 

[mservant]

Wow, what a wonderful turn around.  It could well be something to do with Sinbad having been unwell and Tempest picking up different vibes which helped her feel secure.  Can't imagine how amazing your must have felt when you were watching them nose to nose like that.  Fingers crossed this is the big turn around you have been  working towards and your patience has been rewarded @Losna  .

 

[smokem]

That is great news.Tempest is really smart,Guess noone ever got that far with her.

Like she is trying to talk.

 

[losna]

Things seem to be continuing well. Yay!

Yesterday she languidly stretched out a paw and pressed it against the gate. Sinbad ran up and pushed his nose against the pad of her foot. She looked at him for a moment, then put the other paw against the gate. It was like she was saying, "Yes, peon. You may kiss my feet." 

They did have one scuffle where she was swiping at him, growling and even spitting. But that doesn't seem to have spoiled this new level of interaction. He seems to finally be coming to understand that she doesn't mind his attention when it's not all the time and in her face. He's been giving her more space, and she's been responding by making social advances in his direction. So I'm very hopeful. We're still taking it very slow though. Having made it this far we don't want to start rushing now and wreck all this progress.

 

[mservant]

 
....Yesterday she languidly stretched out a paw and pressed it against the gate. Sinbad ran up and pushed his nose against the pad of her foot. She looked at him for a moment, then put the other paw against the gate. It was like she was saying, "Yes, peon. You may kiss my feet." 

  ....

    I love it.   

   Poor little Sinbad is being made to grovel for attention, what a little lamb kissing her paws!   

   It sounds like progress, and Tempest is deciding there might be some benefits to having this more extravert kitty as a companion.  Clean paws being one of them maybe.  

    I hope you can let them both share the space in your home soon.

 

[losna]

@MServant   I somehow missed your last post! Sorry! But yeah, it was heartening. Unfortunately...

Last night Sinbad broke into her room. She's been coming out of her shell more lately, so she apparently jumped up to greet my husband when he walked by the stairs in a new way, and it excited Sinbad so much he scaled the gate and was in her room faster than my hubby could react.

The result was our first real cat fight between the two of them. Tempest was making that scary sound that fighting cats make - it was just awful. And to make matters worse, my husband got really upset. Sinbad is my baby, Tempest is his - so he just lost his cool hearing her making those scared sounds.

He didn't hurt Sinbad. I know he never would hurt either of the cats. But when my husband gets scared, he starts shouting in ways that make even me nervous - and I know that he's not going to hurt anyone, all he's doing is venting fear and worry.  Cats though, particularly shelter cats who haven't been with us long enough to be secure that they're staying on good days, do not have this certainty. Once he managed to get them separated, he shouted at Sinbad, and made violent gestures at him. And it terrified Sinbad so much he took off and hid behind the large couch in the basement. He was afraid of even me. 

And so my husband and I had a fight because while I agree that Sinbad caused the mess, I don't think scaring him that badly is the way to handle it, and I was worried about Tempest too which didn't help. This of course, only scared both cats even more. We tried to calm them down, but they were both too terrified and we eventually had to give up and go to bed.

Both cats remained in hiding until about 3am (I was too upset about everything to sleep so I was awake when I heard their creeping around begin). But Tempest runs and hides if I go to her door, and both she and Sinbad jump at every sound and bolt. You  can definitely tell the favorite person of each of them - Sinbad keeps coming to me for reassurance and darting away from my hubby, and Tempest lets my hubby comfort her but runs from me.

Just to give some context - my husband volunteers twice a week at the shelter. They call him the "Cat Whisperer" because he's really good at calming down scared cats. That's all they have him do - just interact with the cats, particularly the scared ones. Scared cats, depressed cats, hurt cats, he is a wonder with them. The couple who run the place have told me that they are so glad he is there, because over the months he's been doing this there he's had a noticeable affect on adoptions - cats that he interacts with have a very good chance of being adopted. Many of the really scared ones that he spends a lot of time with are adopted the very day he devotes attention to them. It's really amazing watching the kitties responding to him. Seriously, cats that are too terrified to let anyone else near will curl up in his arms and purr happily, and end up curious about people and letting other people pet them afterwards.

In the 12 years we've been together, I've only seen him this level of scared/angry twice - both times when he thought I was seriously injured or dead.

It was a very scary fight between the two of them.  I was on the other side of the house and I literally dropped what I was doing and ran because from the sounds, I thought one of them was killing the other one. 

 

And now I don't know what to do at all. We've had setbacks before, but nothing even remotely like this. 

 

 

[cat nap]

@Losna...I am just reading this now, and I know that even though you may feel like it is a setback, it may actually turn out to be a good thing.

The only reason I say this, is because, yes, it is awful, that both Sinbad and Tempest have not yet reached that place of mutual toleration, but everyone in the house is still safe.

It is true that frightening Sinbad, is not the way, but, if no physical violence, and no huge yelling or running after the cat occurred, then Sinbad will not interpret this as a huge setback.

Actually, the both of you arguing, is probably more detrimental to the cats getting along...and I only say this, because my one cat hates when I argue, raise my voice or am loud with my own family.

Arguments will always happen in households, so don't take this as a negative.  It's what comes next, and reaching some sort of understanding, that matters.

Sometimes the sounds that cats make, sound way more awful to us, but in fact, I think it is a cat's way of communicating to each other, sort of like a mini-argument, too.

As long as no fur or blood is being drawn, then the vocalizations, may only be warning calls to each other, to say...."back off" or else I may "have to take to the next level".

And true, you don't want to see any cats in a cat fight, because of possible injuries, vet bills, etc.....but the loud vocalizations don't always lead to that.

Keeping their nails trimmed, may help if you think they will always try to injure each other.

 

[losna]

I did mean to ask - is it normal for cats to shed after being scared or stressed? Both of them are literally leaving behind clouds of fur every time they move today. Like super shedding powers have activated.

@cat nap   We only yelled at each other for about 5 minutes. After 12 years, we don't argue much anymore, just mainly grouch.

You're probably right though. They seem mostly settled right now - I just went and gave them a ton of treats. This morning neither of them would go near the gate, not even for treats  but just now they were both perfectly fine being within 6 inches of each other joining together to beg mommy for more. 

 

 

[cat nap]

 
I did mean to ask - is it normal for cats to shed after being scared or stressed? Both of them are literally leaving behind clouds of fur every time they move today. Like super shedding powers have activated.

@cat nap   We only yelled at each other for about 5 minutes. After 12 years, we don't argue much anymore, just mainly grouch.

You're probably right though. They seem mostly settled right now - I just went and gave them a ton of treats. This morning neither of them would go near the gate, not even for treats  but just now they were both perfectly fine being within 6 inches of each other joining together to beg mommy for more. 

 

Yes, My Spotty actually sheds his fur, like he was giving off porcupine quills, if he is upset, does not want to be held, going to the vet, etc.  Totally normal. 

I do have to brush him a lot lately, because we live in a northern climate, I think the indoor air may be drier, or too warm, so he seems to leave some fur wherever he is laying.

@Losna....A 5 minute argument, would be considered a "heated discussion" in my opinion,

  (I tend to carry on for a bit longer...

)   but cats are sensitive in hearing, so they might think it more serious.

Just wondering, if you have ever tried to be in the same room with them, but you having Sinbad near you, and your hubby has Tempest, and then switching Seats?

 

[losna]

@cat nap   We tried. But I am unable to keep hold of him once he sees Tempest. He really  wants to cuddle and groom with her. And Tempest doesn't trust me enough to hold her. I don't blame her for that, Sinbad follows me around like a little shadow. She's not afraid of me  but she never gets to see me without him being right behind. The best we've found is for my husband to hold her standing up while I sit on the floor with Sinbad. He then pingpongs between pawing at my hubby's legs and rubbing against me while staring at Tempest. 

That's the most heartbreaking thing about this. He desperately wants to be snuggle buddies. She desperately wants to be left alone.

  

I've tried to wean him off being so dependent on me, with limited success. He bonded to me the day after we adopted him, and for several months he would cry whenever he couldn't see me, and panic when I left the house.