Cat Discipline

[rockcat]

Originally Posted by lindsayz

Hello everyone,
I am new to this site. My boyfriend has been very active here and sent me a copy of the thread about water spraying. I was wanting to reply to you all about this issue. We have a new cat named Buddy. He is very active and attacks our submissive cat Casey ALL the time. She lives in fear and only comes out when he is locked behind closed doors. He attacks her when she is moving, or just sitting there. He also attacks her when she is already hiding. I am feeling like I want to spray him to stop the behavior. My boyfriend has strong feelings about NOT doing this because of the posts here. We have tried the "NO", the redirecting him and putting him in the bathroom for 5 minutes to stop the behavior. We are clearly at a loss. It is so bad that we are considering finding him a new home! HELP!!!! So many people I know have suggested using the water. I feel like it should be considered if it means the alternative is finding him a new home. Needless to say, I dont know who would want him if he cries all the time, attacks other cats and bites and claws. I rescued him myself from the street and it breaks my heart to think of him in any unpleasant situation! I am open to any suggestions and want you all to know that I love both my cats very much. I hate that Casey is living in fear. She is a sweetie and deserves better than to live her life under the couch!
Thanks!

Good Morning, Lindsayz! Welcome to TCS!

Have you tried shaking a can with a few pebbles in it? I read about that awhile ago somewhere on this site.

How were Buddy & Casey introduced? Please read the following link. You may want to consider re-introducing them.
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...threadid=22138

 

[millyanddaisy]

I think the key is to find something - a noise or situation - that will distract the cat from whatever it is they are doing wrong. Mine will respond to 'get down' said in a stern voice, and occasionally all it takes is a hard look. But when we first had these two, they were known as those famous Russian cats: Daisyoff and Millyoff!!

Sue

 

[diane8704]

I dont "smack" my cats. I will tap their butt with my finger to get their attention, but I never hit them. Usually, removing them from what they are wrongfully doing usually works, but Smudge is VERY stubborn. And thats just part of her personality. I have found, however, that when I discipline my siberian husky by rolling up newspaper, and swatting my hand with it, she also behaves. I think the noise gets her attention and my firm NO, Ma'am get her attention too. There have been a couple of times I have had to lock her in her own room with connecting bathroom at night because she wont let me sleep from her antics, but she doesnt really care. Shes got her kitty mountain made out of boxes and a gazillion toys, and food and water and treats. Some punishment, huh?

 

[snowleop]

Originally Posted by diane8704

There have been a couple of times I have had to lock her in her own room with connecting bathroom at night because she wont let me sleep from her antics, but she doesnt really care. Shes got her kitty mountain made out of boxes and a gazillion toys, and food and water and treats. Some punishment, huh?

My cats are pretty spoiled, too. My apartment looks like a feline playground.

 

[sharky]

I have tried the water thing it worked for my 16 yr old but the young one i use time out in the bathroom... I need training tips

 

[KitEKats4Eva!]

Actually, I have found that time out is a really effective method. Scratchy used to calm down considerably after 5 or so minutes locked up by herself. AND she became extra loving and affectionate, too...lol!

 

[cirque]

So far I have tried treating Buddy as if I am a cat when being a human does not work. I hiss at him, I stare him down, I use body language (that I learned from him and our other cats).

I also move my feet across the carpet wearing flip-flops (makes a good noise), I snap, I clap, I say "NO, BUDDY!" and "BUDDY, NO" "STOP" as loudly as I dare (landlord lives below and sleeps early).

Sometimes I even get down on my hands and knees and do an open mouthed very fast pant like a cat smelling a strange cat or a fast "dog sniff". Those usually send him into a super playful run around frantic or super friendly loving state thats hillarious to watch but does not last long. Sure gets him distracted though.

Most of the time he follows me around or stays in the same room as me, and often comes when called as well so he really can be sweet. I would hate to have to get rid of him.

Buddy's major problem however is that he wants to attack Casey either playfully or meanly (hard to tell usually). Reguardless Casey wants nothing to do with him and is only now starting to barely accept him in the same room without taking off, but usually does when the chance arrives.

Casey is SO scared she usually hides behind a chair, under a dresser or inside our couch and only comes out in the morning to see us if Buddy is locked up or at night when we eat dinner and Buddy is locked up. Buddy has to be locked up because it is when he gets fed some wet food and it gives Casey time to go eat as well. I do fear she does not get enough food as she usually does not get to eat all of hers, but we free feed dry food as well so I keep hoping shes sneaking in some eating while I sleep during the day.

Casey will not eat if the food is at a door with Buddy on the other side, she is not food motivated being that she is sooo timid and affection driven but can not get affection to socialize if shes being chased or attacked. There is literally no way to "properly" introduce these two cats as suggested by feeding them near each other etc.

I have tried rubbing a towel on Casey to get her scent on it, that almost worked. When I went to rub Buddy he thought it was a much better idea if he just attacked the towel and me instead. Hand towels must be extreamly fun to bite. Well I rubbed him a little bit, went back to Casey and she had enough of towel rubbing.

We have tried putting things with the other cats scents around as well. Buddy loves to go into Casey's little cat house thing, more then Casey ever did. He loves to play with the toys the other cats had as well as long as theres catnip involved. Moved a piece of clothes Buddy had been sitting on often over onto the couch where Casey sits, she did not go back onto it after the first time she was on it and we even feed them both snacks while she was on it.

Buddy also has taken to walking around "Crying" for attention? or something he wants, at odd hours when people generally sleep. If I shut him in the computer room (where he first stayed when we got him) he ends up scratching at the door and crying non-stop for quite awhile, sometimes very loudly. So that makes it really hard to keep him seperated for reintroduction as well as he now feels he should have free reign of the house, although he does tend to migrate back to this room where I always am. I also send him here after he does something bad, which I suppose reinforces that this is "his" room and might not be good?

So far we have not been able to get the plug-ins mentioned elsewhere, around here they are about $45 and refills are about half that. Being on a very limited income myself it makes buying all sorts of cat stuff tough after we pay off vet bills, adoption fees, food, litter, and all the rest.

I realize some of these things take a great deal of repetition and time, but if anyone has any suggestions with how to get Casey to be more accepting and less timid, and Buddy to chill out a bit.. please we would love to hear them.

Thanks,
Cirque

 

[diane8704]

Originally Posted by sharky

I have tried the water thing it worked for my 16 yr old but the young one i use time out in the bathroom... I need training tips

Actually, kitty time out works! Cats are social, at least mine are, and she absolutely despises, being locked in or out of a room that I am in. If she won't leave my contact case alone, and I get aggarvated, I put her out of the bathroom, and take my bath. After about 5 minutes or so of her paw reaching for me under the door, and her trying to fit her face under it to give me hard eyes, my husband lets her in. She actually lays in the sink on her back like I do in the tub. And if I go Smudge! She purs at me.
I think cats are a lot like toddlers. They need to be punished and spoiled in equal measures!! Definitely time out!
And as for the water issue...when you adopt a cat thats been outside, water doesnt usually effect them. Smudge is like, ooooh, spray me again!! She doesnt care!! She'll get in the bath tub on the ledge and get wet! I find that if I take rolled up newspaper and pop it in my hand, she straightens up. I never have to touch her. If she attacks my older cat, I pick her up, look her in the eye, and tell her NO. If she gets on the counter, and put her down on the floor and tap her back, by her tail, and tell her NO again. This usually works.

 

[mithrellas]

Originally Posted by pandybear

i have never and never will punish my cats, not only are they part of the family but cats just don't understand why they are being punished.

Oh they do. Just now I caught Taby messing around with a newspaper, as soon as he saw me come in he laid on the floor next to it, as if hiding from me

He wasn't scared, just had that attitude like he knew he was doing something he wasn't supposed to.

I remember when I'd just gotten Taby I was also scared of him being afraid of me 'cause I'd "punish" him but that never happened. Geez even when I do stuff to him I know he doesn't like, like sticking him in a bag to go to the vets, or give him a bath, after it's over he comes purring over to me.

He's not traumatized by me yelling NO to him whenever he does something wrong. It's not like I'm hitting him constantly. You never have to hit him hard, maybe a little pat on the back leg, just so he knows, it doesn't have to hurt.

Good luck

 

[dragonlady]

Originally Posted by Cirque

Buddy's major problem however is that he wants to attack Casey either playfully or meanly (hard to tell usually). Reguardless Casey wants nothing to do with him and is only now starting to barely accept him in the same room without taking off, but usually does when the chance arrives.


I have tried rubbing a towel on Casey to get her scent on it, that almost worked. When I went to rub Buddy he thought it was a much better idea if he just attacked the towel and me instead. Hand towels must be extreamly fun to bite. Well I rubbed him a little bit, went back to Casey and she had enough of towel rubbing.


So far we have not been able to get the plug-ins mentioned elsewhere, around here they are about $45 and refills are about half that. Being on a very limited income myself it makes buying all sorts of cat stuff tough after we pay off vet bills, adoption fees, food, litter, and all the rest.


Thanks,
Cirque

It sounds like there may be an age difference? (Younger = more energy)

When he attacks is there hissing or growling? (This would be a true attack not playing)

Does he have stuffed animals to attack instead of Casey?(This would alow him to blow off steam in an appropriate manner)

He may need a playdate with an equally energetic kitty.(Always make sure the other kitty has all it's shots up to date)

Playdates should be at a neutral place at first so there is no territory issues. A garage or other large place for them to explore together. (No chemicals, or oil spills should be available for them to get into)

I hope this will help you out a bit with the kitty problems

 

[hissy]

Originally Posted by Cirque

So far I have tried treating Buddy as if I am a cat when being a human does not work. I hiss at him, I stare him down, I use body language (that I learned from him and our other cats).

I also move my feet across the carpet wearing flip-flops (makes a good noise), I snap, I clap, I say "NO, BUDDY!" and "BUDDY, NO" "STOP" as loudly as I dare (landlord lives below and sleeps early).

Sometimes I even get down on my hands and knees and do an open mouthed very fast pant like a cat smelling a strange cat or a fast "dog sniff". Those usually send him into a super playful run around frantic or super friendly loving state thats hillarious to watch but does not last long. Sure gets him distracted though.

Most of the time he follows me around or stays in the same room as me, and often comes when called as well so he really can be sweet. I would hate to have to get rid of him.

Buddy's major problem however is that he wants to attack Casey either playfully or meanly (hard to tell usually). Reguardless Casey wants nothing to do with him and is only now starting to barely accept him in the same room without taking off, but usually does when the chance arrives.

Casey is SO scared she usually hides behind a chair, under a dresser or inside our couch and only comes out in the morning to see us if Buddy is locked up or at night when we eat dinner and Buddy is locked up. Buddy has to be locked up because it is when he gets fed some wet food and it gives Casey time to go eat as well. I do fear she does not get enough food as she usually does not get to eat all of hers, but we free feed dry food as well so I keep hoping shes sneaking in some eating while I sleep during the day.

Casey will not eat if the food is at a door with Buddy on the other side, she is not food motivated being that she is sooo timid and affection driven but can not get affection to socialize if shes being chased or attacked. There is literally no way to "properly" introduce these two cats as suggested by feeding them near each other etc.

I have tried rubbing a towel on Casey to get her scent on it, that almost worked. When I went to rub Buddy he thought it was a much better idea if he just attacked the towel and me instead. Hand towels must be extreamly fun to bite. Well I rubbed him a little bit, went back to Casey and she had enough of towel rubbing.

We have tried putting things with the other cats scents around as well. Buddy loves to go into Casey's little cat house thing, more then Casey ever did. He loves to play with the toys the other cats had as well as long as theres catnip involved. Moved a piece of clothes Buddy had been sitting on often over onto the couch where Casey sits, she did not go back onto it after the first time she was on it and we even feed them both snacks while she was on it.

Buddy also has taken to walking around "Crying" for attention? or something he wants, at odd hours when people generally sleep. If I shut him in the computer room (where he first stayed when we got him) he ends up scratching at the door and crying non-stop for quite awhile, sometimes very loudly. So that makes it really hard to keep him seperated for reintroduction as well as he now feels he should have free reign of the house, although he does tend to migrate back to this room where I always am. I also send him here after he does something bad, which I suppose reinforces that this is "his" room and might not be good?

So far we have not been able to get the plug-ins mentioned elsewhere, around here they are about $45 and refills are about half that. Being on a very limited income myself it makes buying all sorts of cat stuff tough after we pay off vet bills, adoption fees, food, litter, and all the rest.

I realize some of these things take a great deal of repetition and time, but if anyone has any suggestions with how to get Casey to be more accepting and less timid, and Buddy to chill out a bit.. please we would love to hear them.

Thanks,
Cirque

Sounds like Buddy is Alpha and Casey isn't into being submissive yet. If they are play fighting that is perfectly normal, and a younger kitty has an over abundance of energy. I know that Prowler is terrorizing the cats over here. The only one who even stands up to her is Gypsy. It is amazing to me how this tenacious 14 week old kitten will not back down, not even from Noddy, our Alpha of the group. I will watch her body language and I will see where Prowler is set on getting her way with the other cats. She even lays down on the floor near their food bowl, and very carefully reaches over with her polydactyl paw and starts creeping the food bowl over to her side of the room. It's hysterical to watch.

I would look into the rescue remedies guy, and see what you can give Buddy and also Casey to ease the tension between them. I wouldn't expose either cat to any more cats or kittens as a playdate, simply because it adds to the stress already in the cat's life. And stress can cause illness pure and simple.

You can go to www.catfaeiries.com or www.littlebigcat.com
and look up the different remedies. They are tasteless and odorless and they do work without harming the cat.

 

[ciera23]

I was searching the threads to find answers to correct my kittens' behaviours. Spook is trying to jump the gate again that I have separating the living room from the kitchen. Salem had tried this a couple times and I just said no and redirected his attention and he has done very well at not trying to get over the gate. Spook was not interested in my "No". She didn't even look over at me. I then tried the making a loud noise. That didn't work either. So, after reading these threads, I tried the hissing noise. IT WORKS BEAUTIFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks so much for having this information here. I never would have thought to do that and I am astonished at how well it works!!!

 

[rosiemac]

Good for you!.

I learned to do that as well

 

[moxymom]

This might sound goofy, but my cats get the same as my kids LOL...well, not entirely...the kids get the long drawn out speeches...but aside from that....they get a firm "No". If that doesn't stop it, they're removed from the situation. Usually a couple of minutes after that they're up purring and rubbing up against me like Hey, are we good? LOL

 

[nano]

This is a real old thread, but here's a quick story...

I wasn't thinking when I gave her the name "Nano" -- sounds like I am always telling her no. So I had to come up with a substitute phrase for "don't do that" and we are back on track.

On topic, I have the phrase for "don't do that" and I make a loud "ow" (deliberately) if she scratches me. That's it. No squirt guns, hitting, clapping, screaming or anything like that. I do have one trick to immediately get her full attention -- but that is very serious and I only use it maybe twice a week.

 

[ranger]

All behaviour of everything, from mammals through to plants, is a response to the environment they're in. However annoying it is to the owner, to the cat it seems the most logical/fun/natural thing to do. The majority of the time the quickest way to change the behaviour is just to change the environment and situation in which the behaviour happens. If a room causes a problem the room can be altered or simply be made out of bounds, if the blind cords are being swung on move the blind cords, if feeding time causes a fight then change the feeding situation. Sometimes a very minor change can solve everything because the 'triggers' that cause the behaviour you don't want are gone. And it's just as easy to change the environment to keep producing the behaviour you DO want- things like adding the extra litter trays, interesting things to climb on and play with etc etc. That often works as great 'first aid' in dealing with any behaviour situation and it's the most successful strategy I've found with my lot. The other half of solving the problem is understanding the specific animal instinctive behaviour- things like alpha behaviour, being aware of group dynamics- which I know virtually nothing about and read avidly about from the experts here! Some of the advice I've gleaned here from recognising and enabling alpha behaviour has been very helpful in reducing friction between my gang, when from reading I realised I actually had two alpha cats. Fascinating to watch and see how those dynamics work.

 

[dancemuse]

I, personally, have used a spritz of water to great success to dissuade my cats from jumping up on the kitchen counters or the dining room table--those are the only surfaces they're not permitted on! I haven't picked up the spray bottle in months, because they learned very quickly. Once in a while, during an intense chasing session, one or another will use the table as part of their escape route, but if they see me looking at them, they know they have to get down right away. Other than that, they really don't need to be disciplined.

I'm interested in everyone's theories as to why cats can't be disciplined in the same way as dogs. I understand that they can't--that's not my question--I'm just wondering what about their nature makes them so different. My family's theory is that, though cats are social animals with their own pecking orders, they're not pack animals in the strict sense that dogs are. But I'm not sure that this fully explains it. Any other ideas?

 

[rarepuss]

human-'like' discipline will not work on a cat! UGH..

You cannot punish, hit or spray it.. won't work. the best thing to do is reward good behavior

 

[eilcon]

I've never smacked or squirted my cats. I've found a firm "no" or "down" or sometimes clapping my hands loudly does the trick. Often it's not so much even a matter of disciplining them, but of keeping them out of trouble.

 

[tuxedokitties]

Originally Posted by DanceMuse

I'm interested in everyone's theories as to why cats can't be disciplined in the same way as dogs. I understand that they can't--that's not my question--I'm just wondering what about their nature makes them so different. My family's theory is that, though cats are social animals with their own pecking orders, they're not pack animals in the strict sense that dogs are. But I'm not sure that this fully explains it. Any other ideas?

Actually, for best results in training and for the best bond with your dog, dogs shouldn't be 'disciplined' with physical punishments either. 'Punishing' a dog can have the same negative long-term effects on your relationship with the dog as 'punishing' a cat - though some dogs are more resilient and will still try to please you rather than run away, it will still damage the bond. Positive training methods provide much quicker and more long-lasting results than force and punishment-based training. Negative behaviors in dogs should also be redirected to a positive (distract the dog from chewing on your shoe and give him a chew toy instead).

Clicker training
The Power of Positive Dog Training

(I know this doesn't directly answer your question, but I wanted to address the common mistaken assumption that dogs can and should be 'punished' as part of regular dog training and dog-owner interaction.)