Buprenorphine long term?

[cattypurry]

I took my two 18 year old male cats (Sparky and Harvey) to the vet 2 weeks ago to see about getting laser therapy, or at least some help for their arthritis pain.  We just moved here a few months ago, and it's the first time I've been able to afford to bring them in.  They were just prescribed .2ml (.3mg/ml) to be given 2 or 3 times a day.  Well, I did it twice a day for a week, and they both ended up with constipation and only peeing maybe half as much as normal.  I took them off of it immediately (that was a few days ago) and I think they're both back to normal (they both share 3 litterboxes, and I'm not sure which deposits belong to who).

 I took them to the back to vet (panicking) and she said I could cut the dose in half and try that, which I was afraid to do, but it really really helped them when they were on it, so when Harvey started showing signs of pain again, I gave him .1ml, and it helped him almost immediately!  He's been back on it for almost 2 days now, and I gave him 1/4 tsp of Miralax (which she also recommended) when he didn't have his morning deposit, and he made a nice big one soon after, so he's not having trouble in that department yet.

Anyway, my question is, can anyone who's done it tell me if it's safe to keep him on it long term?  I'd like to take him in for laser therapy in a month or two, but if something happens and I can't, can I keep him going on it?  Sparky is actually fine without it--I give them both Arthrimaxx twice a day, and he doesn't show any signs of pain and has stopped pulling hair out of his back -- which he did before I started them on the Arthrimaxx a few months ago--I thought it was nerves, but after he was on it a little while I realized it must have been from joint pain, poor baby!!!!! : (  When he needs more help, I'd like to put him on it too (or laser therapy, depending on how that works for Harvey).

I don't know any cat people I can talk to, so I hope someone here can give me some good advice.  I'm afraid of doing more damage than good.  I have a healthy fear/respect for medications.  I just want them to be as pain free as possible without causing damage!  Sorry this is so long--I just wanted to give you the full story (we don't need to go into how panicked and devastated I was when I thought they wouldn't recover)!!!!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

What did your Vet say about using it long term?  My honest opinion is...would you rather keep your furbaby out of pain and risk possible health issues further down the line (IF there were any?

) or would you rather he be in pain?  I'm a firm believer in Quality of life vs Quantity, although, naturally, we want both. 

So, I can only tell you what I would do, and I would go with the smallest amount of the pain killer I could get away with, along with the Miralax, until I could get the Laser Therapy done.  That's just me. 

 

[cattypurry]

Well, she never really said anything about long term use, because I told her on the first visit that I'd like to get them laser therapy asap.  What I've read online about buprenorphine seems to go from one extreme to the other, so I'm not really sure what to believe.  That's why I thought I'd ask here--it seems like a great resource for real life answers!

You're exactly right--I don't want him to have any pain if there's anything I can do about it!  I honestly don't know what the long term effects would be (that's why I thought I'd ask here), but it is definitely improving his quality of life right now.

After I saw how he was walking after being off of it, I had to put him back on it.  If I could, I'd take the pain on myself!  He's been back on it (the half dose of .1 ml twice a day) for almost 3 full days now.  I think he's actually doing better with the lower dose because his personality is back, he's walking better, and just seems to be feeling good in general!  : )  They were both almost zombies at the .2 ml doses, and that's no way to live.  I guess less is more in this case!  : )  So, I guess I'll keep going this way, and give him miralax when he seems to need it.  Today was pretty soft, so he definitely doesn't need it right now.  One day at a time.  

Thanks for your advice!  It's nice to have an actual cat person to talk to!  My friends/coworkers and family will listen, but don't really understand (and really don't understand why I worry so much)!  They're either dog people or not animal people at all, and don't believe in spending much money on pet care, so I don't really have anyone to turn to when I'm in panic mode when my guys are sick.  So thank you, again.  I really do appreciate it!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

There is no reason why you can't call your Vet after the fact and ask about using it longer term, just to be safe.  Also you could ask if there is anything else that she might recommend,  in case you cannot get the Laser therapy done as soon as you'd like. 

I give my senior Miralax every day to keep her regular, and she's not on any pain killers.  But she has kidney disease, so gets dehydrated easily, even with sub-q fluids

.  Believe me, I know what it's like to worry

 

[cattypurry]

I'm so sorry about your poor kitty!  That must be so hard to handle!  I'm sure you definitely know a lot about worrying!  It sounds like you're taking great care of her though, and I see she's got friends, so she's a lucky girl.  : )  

I'm going to call first thing on Monday.  I thought she was going to get back to me yesterday, but guess I misunderstood.  She did prescribe Dasuquin, but said it takes 4 to 6 weeks to work.  She said the next step would be prednisone, but said he's not ready for that yet.  I did some research on the Dasuquin so I'd know what it actually does and what to expect.  I didn't really want to give it to them before I knew, so put them back on the Arthrimaxx in the meantime.  I started giving them the Dasuquin last night, so hopefully it'll work as well as the Arthrimaxx has been.  

The Dasuquin is actually not for pain, it's a joint support supplement (you probably know that already), so that's why I decided to try putting him back on the buprenorphine when he started showing signs of pain again.  From what I read, they usually are prescribed together, but I'll ask her about that too.  They're still both doing well, so hopefully that will continue!  Last weekend I was sure their kidneys or something were damaged beyond repair, and that I wouldn't be taking them home from the vet on Monday, and today they're as good or better than they have been for a long time!  And I can breathe again!

I guess in the end, all we can do is our best and hope that it's enough.  

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Thank you

.

Did you know you can order Dasaquin on Amazon without a prescription.  It's probably a lot less expensive than getting it through your Vet

I'm so glad your boys are feeling better again! 

 

[cattypurry]

I wasn't sure if it was the same product, but will probably buy from Amazon since it isn't a prescription drug!  She charged $28, so it wasn't alot more (from what I remember), but I buy other stuff for them from Amazon too, so it'll be much easier and cheaper than getting to her office during working hours.  I actually became an Amazon Prime member to get the 40 pound bags of cat litter delivered (free!) to my door, so I don't have to haul them from the store and up 2 flights of stairs to my apartment!  My UPS guy is the greatest!  : )

Me too!  I can't believe the difference in Harvey!  They still don't like getting the medication, but hopefully I'll get better at giving it to them.  I mix the Dasuquin in about 1.5cc of water and squirt it in their mouths because they won't eat their food if I mix it in or sprinkle it on top!  

Thank you for your advice!  It's so nice to "talk" to someone who understands!

 

[catladyvettech]

I think it's ok for long term use. Opioids are very safe meds for cats. Prednisolone might be helpful too, although long term steroid use definitely has its consequences. But with regular preventative blood work it can be fine to use for a long time too. Definitely go for the laser treatment if you can. We got a laser machine at my hospital about a year ago and we've had temendous success with it.

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

My last cat needed to be on buprenorphine long-term for pain management during her last year of life, both for pancreatitis and arthritis. She did very well with the .1ml-.2ml dose BID during that year -- until she turned the corner, had much more pain & her health deteriorated, and we needed to resort back to the initial dose which the vet had prescribed (.3ml) during her initial onset of pancreatitis the year before. In my experience, a dose of .1-.2ml once or twice daily works wonders for easing pain -- but verify with your vet, of course!

 

[cattypurry]

to CATLADY VET TECH  Thanks for your advice!  I was wondering how effective laser treatment is, as it's still fairly new for pets, from what I've been reading. It's good to hear you're having good results with it!  I'd like to have that done so he doesn't need to be on pain medication (or could at least be on a low dose).   My vet said it usually takes several treatments to know how well it will work.  I'll have to check with them and see how much it would cost for xrays and a treatment package. I'm hoping to get him in possibly next week, depending on the cost (don't qualify for credit due to financial problems in the last few years).

 

[cattypurry]

to Push Purr Cat Paws  I'm so sorry about your cat!  At least you did everything you could to ease her pain and suffering.   

 I've been giving Harvey .1 ml twice a day since Tuesday afternoon, and he's doing great!  She originally prescribed .2 ml twice a day, but they were both total zombies on that dose, plus after about a week it made them completely constipated and they hardly peed either!  (They were originally set up to go back for a 2 week checkup, but I needed to bring them in a little sooner than that). I was so afraid it permanently damaged their kidneys!  It did take a few days to improve, but they're both back to normal now, if not better!  : )  And I'm keeping an eye on things, now that I know!  I realize they're 18 years old and that they won't live forever, no matter how much I'd like them to.  I just want to make sure they don't suffer because of something I'm doing--or not doing.  And hope I'm strong enough to let them go when it is time--but hopefully that won't be too soon!

 

[abbybaby]

 
  I just want to make sure they don't suffer because of something I'm doing--or not doing.  And hope I'm strong enough to let them go when it is time--but hopefully that won't be too soon!

I've been in that place recently and let me assure you - you will be strong enough. Bailey had chronic pancreatitis and was on a steroid. The risk was that she would develop diabetes, which she did, but it was worth taking that chance to give her two more years that were comfortable. The diabetes wasn't the big problem (though it was hard and she hated the needles) it was that she also had gall stones and there were dozens of little ones in the branches of her liver. She had a couple of bouts of pain, which is why they were discovered, and the internal specialist told me there was no way to deal with them. She may have gone months without an episode, or she may have had them block little tubes, causing pain, inflamation and a flare up of her pancreatitis. I couldn't risk having her go through all that, so I was able to make the decision. I was praised for it by a lot of people as if the decision was hard. It wasn't. It was painful to make it, but not hard because it was all about her and her quality of life. Seeing what you've done for your kitties, I have no doubt you will be able to make the same decision when it is time. Hopefully a long time from now.

 

[cattypurry]

I am so sorry you and Bailey had to go through all of that!  You definitely did the right thing for her.  I'm sure those few possible months wouldn't have been good ones for her, and would have eventually led to a lot of unnecessary pain--not the kind of end that she deserved. I love my guys too much to do that to them too, just like most people.  I just worry I won't know they're miserable until it's unbearable, since cats are so good at hiding it.  I put Sparky back on the buprenorphine (.1 ml) today, because it looks like his back is bothering him, and the Dasuquin doesn't seem to be doing anything for him!  I know it's supposed to take a few weeks to work, but they've been on a glucosamine/chondroitin OTC medication for a few years now, so I thought he'd be doing better on the Dasuquin since it is a little stronger.  I think I might go back to the OTC stuff (Arthrimaxx).

 I actually scheduled Harvey for xrays next week to see if laser therapy will work for him (hope so)!  I just found out we're supposed to have a bonus check coming in the next few weeks (first time in years!), so that will go for them too.  : )  No idea how much it will be, but whatever it is will be more than I was expecting, and will come in handy!  : )  What great timing!  : )

 

[abbybaby]

It probably won't stop you from worrying, but at least in our case, it was significant changes in Bailey's behaviour that really let me know. She probably was in pain before I realized it because as you say, they are good at hiding it, but when she stopped playing with her toys, especially her mice, I knew something was really, really wrong. So you will know - in fact, you already did know which is why you are using buprenorphine etc. So between changes in behaviour and test results, you will know when it is time. Meanwhile, I hope the laser therapy is do-able and helpful. Take care.

 

[cattypurry]

Thank you for your help. I can't wait to get him in to see what the vet says. If she thinks it will help, they'll do the first treatment that day!

Mine have a few favorite toys too (out of a housefull)!  : )  Guess I can't blame them for that though, since I'm the one bringing them home... 

Take care, and all our best to you and yours! 

 

 

[lsr71751]

This thread has been helpful as somene indicated it is difficult not to worry and I do worry. My fur babie is taking her 3rd laser treatment and got a depo- metoporal steroid shot Friday. I see a very slight improvment, she is still able to use hind legs or one paw. Which means we must take her potty. She is trying to give us clues be pulling herself forward the best she can but she has had several accidents- no bm's even with clearance and a cod liver ointment. She will have to get another enema. What else can I do? If we take her to a Neuro specialist just to walk in the door is $200, an mri is $1500.00 plus all the addition a treatments. We just spent $4000 on 2 other babies that cold not be saved!