Bottle Babies Off their Feed

[crowinghen]

I have a litter of 3 bottle kittens I'm fostering.  They're presently nearly 3 weeks old.  I have had them since about 1 day old judging by weight and umbilical cord condition when they came to me.  I tried to find Colostrum for them, but couldn't find any until the last few days.

They learned to eat fine in their first few days, but developed Constipation and then bloody Diarrhea between 10 days and 2 weeks.  We started a course of Albon and they had the last dose yesterday.  One of them, the 4th, developed white diarrhea, lost weight rapidly, and died last Friday in spite of a vet visit where I was told he was a "healthy happy guy".  (Vet also said he was 4 weeks old because his eyes were open, and didn't have a problem with him being 5.3 oz. at that supposed age.  She wasn't helpful at all.  Didn't even ask WHY I brought him in.)

His siblings were a bit more robust, but now one of them is beginning to refuse the bottle.  Diarrhea hasn't cleared up in spite of worming and Albon.  The one that was my biggest and most robust is now puny and refusing to eat.  I've syringe fed him, but he's resistant even to that.  It is literally force-feeding.  None of them are taking nearly enough formula for their weight if the KMR bottle is to be believed.

I would very much appreciate any and all thoughts and suggestions.  Having already lost one, I'm fearful of losing the others, and the course they're beginning to take isn't promising.  The two that had been my most robust are now the ones that are struggling.  A puny on that went downhill right before the one I lost began to tank seems to be recovering.  She's the only one that will eat enthusiastically, but even she's not meeting the 8ml per oz of body weight recommendation on the KMR container.  More like half of that.

Some general info if it helps:

Kittens are separated now because of mate-suckling

All have access to a heating pad, but can also get away from it.

The puniest one I've supplemented with a hot-water bottle in a sock. 

They've had their 2 week wormer, have just finished a round of Albon, and are on a course of Panacur that will finish in 2 days

They're being fed every 3 hours generally.  We did skip a feeding during the Diarrhea to see if we could help them get a system reset.  Diarrhea was bloody, and mucous like.  One is still passing blood.  Other two not passing blood, but not having healthy stools either.

Tummies are bloated for no more than they're eating.

I have lactated-ringers, and have administered it before.  But don't have reliable dosing information, and as mentioned above, the rescue's vet was the opposite of helpful.  (She actually complained to the rescue that I was "pushy and argumentative" when I pointed out the symptoms that weren't consistent with the "happy healthy guy" she insisted he was.  He died 7 hours later crying in pain.)

I exposed them to wet food to see if it would help - zero interest.  (One was repulsed)

They do suckle on my skin and on their bedding.

I would appreciate any insight, help, suggestions, etc.  They've held on for nearly 3 weeks now, but they're not responding to medicine and are getting harder and harder to feed. 

 

[jennyr]

My first worry would be dehydration. They sound as if they are hungry but for some reason will not eat. I have had success with using a needleless syringe rather than a bottle for reluctant kittens. It is easier to measure what they take too. Get a 20ml syringe from the pharmacist and try introducing it gently into the side of the mouth before squeezing slowly in spurts. And I would give them pedialyte as well as milk to rehydrate them. You can buy it from a pharmacy, it is basically glucose water with supplements. Good luck, it is so worrying when kittens start to fail.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Which brand of kmr are you feeding them? Canned or powdered?

 

[handsome kitty]

Bottle KMR can cause diarrhea and some brands are inconstant.  Hartz and Seargents are bad.  Try powdered Pet Ag, GNC or Royal Canin if possible.

Can you feed the kitten some pumpkin by having it lick it off your finger.

@catwoman707

 

[crowinghen]

Powdered PetAg is what I'm using.  They've taken nothing but formula off my fingers so far.  Not canned food, not butter, nothing else but formula. With the diarrhea is Pumpkin going to make it worse?

 

[Willowy]

Try chicken baby food mixed 50/50 with the formula. They might like the flavor better than plain formula, and they're old enough to start having something other than milk. They might like the thicker texture too.

Pumpkin/squash has fiber, that's why it's recommended for diarrhea. I'm not sure what the effects will be on a baby kitten, but a little bit of baby food squash shouldn't hurt and might help.

If they're dehydrated, I'd give some Ringer's. . .I'm not sure about dosage either, just give something that looks appropriate for their size. They can't digest if they're dehydrated so it's worth a try.

 

[StefanZ]

 
Powdered PetAg is what I'm using.  They've taken nothing but formula off my fingers so far.  Not canned food, not butter, nothing else but formula. With the diarrhea is Pumpkin going to make it worse?

no, pumpkin does often help regulate diarrhea too.  The question is possibly, if they are too young for active using of crushed flavorless pumpkin. May be worth a try anyways, although its a little experimentating, its no experienced based.

 

[StefanZ]

 
I have a litter of 3 bottle kittens I'm fostering.  They're presently nearly 3 weeks old.  I have had them since about 1 day old judging by weight and umbilical cord condition when they came to me.   I tried to find Colostrum for them, but couldn't find any until the last few days.

They learned to eat fine in their first few days, but developed Constipation and then bloody Diarrhea between 10 days and 2 weeks.  We started a course of Albon and they had the last dose yesterday.  One of them, the 4th, developed white diarrhea, lost weight rapidly, and died last Friday in spite of a vet visit where I was told he was a "healthy happy guy".  (Vet also said he was 4 weeks old because his eyes were open, and didn't have a problem with him being 5.3 oz. at that supposed age.  She wasn't helpful at all.  Didn't even ask WHY I brought him in.)

His siblings were a bit more robust, but now one of them is beginning to refuse the bottle.  Diarrhea hasn't cleared up in spite of worming and Albon.  The one that was my biggest and most robust is now puny and refusing to eat.  I've syringe fed him, but he's resistant even to that.  It is literally force-feeding.  None of them are taking nearly enough formula for their weight if the KMR bottle is to be believed.

I would very much appreciate any and all thoughts and suggestions.  Having already lost one, I'm fearful of losing the others, and the course they're beginning to take isn't promising.  The two that had been my most robust are now the ones that are struggling.  A puny on that went downhill right before the one I lost began to tank seems to be recovering.  She's the only one that will eat enthusiastically, but even she's not meeting the 8ml per oz of body weight recommendation on the KMR container.  More like half of that.

Some general info if it helps:

Kittens are separated now because of mate-suckling

All have access to a heating pad, but can also get away from it.

The puniest one I've supplemented with a hot-water bottle in a sock. 

They've had their 2 week wormer, have just finished a round of Albon, and are on a course of Panacur that will finish in 2 days

They're being fed every 3 hours generally.  We did skip a feeding during the Diarrhea to see if we could help them get a system reset.  Diarrhea was bloody, and mucous like.  One is still passing blood.  Other two not passing blood, but not having healthy stools either.

Tummies are bloated for no more than they're eating.

I have lactated-ringers, and have administered it before.  But don't have reliable dosing information, and as mentioned above, the rescue's vet was the opposite of helpful.  (She actually complained to the rescue that I was "pushy and argumentative" when I pointed out the symptoms that weren't consistent with the "happy healthy guy" she insisted he was.  He died 7 hours later crying in pain.)

I exposed them to wet food to see if it would help - zero interest.  (One was repulsed)

They do suckle on my skin and on their bedding.

I would appreciate any insight, help, suggestions, etc.  They've held on for nearly 3 weeks now, but they're not responding to medicine and are getting harder and harder to feed. 

The probiotic  by BeneBac, made by PetAg, is made especially for small kittens, and often helps.  Its said it contains colostrum.  So its the easiest way to get colostrum

You use the powdered PetAg KMR - good, its a kmr of best reputation.  I have heard PetAg have now a new type of kmr, which also contains colostrum.  Although I dont remember the name.

If you can get raw goat milk, fresh or frozen, may be an excellent alternative, not least when there are diarrhea problems.   Raw goat milk does contain some natural antibodies and such.  Its coming from a living mom, no?

If the diarrhea is severe, look into pedialyte, bought flavorless for babies or homemade.  Here are some ideas for home-made pedialytes:

On pedialyte:   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/301213/pedialyte-question-6-week-old-kitten#post_3778057

 

[StefanZ]

ps. The BeneBac mentioned, works nicely to control diarrheas.

Ringers mentioned by Willowy, is in practice, a sort of pedialyte, as I understand it.

The big difference is, Ringers proper can be injected if so is, can also be used by mouth.

While pedialyte, is for use by mouth.  Even if there are similiar products for injection.

I would recommend you to try all these;   some type of pedialyte, to help losing of electrolytes and salts

BeneBac - or some other good probiotic

And raw goat  milk, if you can get it...

Use them parallelly, none of them is harmful, all three may help, individually or together.

 

[catwoman707]

 
I have a litter of 3 bottle kittens I'm fostering.  They're presently nearly 3 weeks old.  I have had them since about 1 day old judging by weight and umbilical cord condition when they came to me.  I tried to find Colostrum for them, but couldn't find any until the last few days.

They learned to eat fine in their first few days, but developed Constipation and then bloody Diarrhea between 10 days and 2 weeks.  We started a course of Albon and they had the last dose yesterday.  One of them, the 4th, developed white diarrhea, lost weight rapidly, and died last Friday in spite of a vet visit where I was told he was a "healthy happy guy".  (Vet also said he was 4 weeks old because his eyes were open, and didn't have a problem with him being 5.3 oz. at that supposed age.  She wasn't helpful at all.  Didn't even ask WHY I brought him in.)

His siblings were a bit more robust, but now one of them is beginning to refuse the bottle.  Diarrhea hasn't cleared up in spite of worming and Albon.  The one that was my biggest and most robust is now puny and refusing to eat.  I've syringe fed him, but he's resistant even to that.  It is literally force-feeding.  None of them are taking nearly enough formula for their weight if the KMR bottle is to be believed.

I would very much appreciate any and all thoughts and suggestions.  Having already lost one, I'm fearful of losing the others, and the course they're beginning to take isn't promising.  The two that had been my most robust are now the ones that are struggling.  A puny on that went downhill right before the one I lost began to tank seems to be recovering.  She's the only one that will eat enthusiastically, but even she's not meeting the 8ml per oz of body weight recommendation on the KMR container.  More like half of that.

Some general info if it helps:

Kittens are separated now because of mate-suckling

All have access to a heating pad, but can also get away from it.

The puniest one I've supplemented with a hot-water bottle in a sock. 

They've had their 2 week wormer, have just finished a round of Albon, and are on a course of Panacur that will finish in 2 days

They're being fed every 3 hours generally.  We did skip a feeding during the Diarrhea to see if we could help them get a system reset.  Diarrhea was bloody, and mucous like.  One is still passing blood.  Other two not passing blood, but not having healthy stools either.

Tummies are bloated for no more than they're eating.

I have lactated-ringers, and have administered it before.  But don't have reliable dosing information, and as mentioned above, the rescue's vet was the opposite of helpful.  (She actually complained to the rescue that I was "pushy and argumentative" when I pointed out the symptoms that weren't consistent with the "happy healthy guy" she insisted he was.  He died 7 hours later crying in pain.)

I exposed them to wet food to see if it would help - zero interest.  (One was repulsed)

They do suckle on my skin and on their bedding.

I would appreciate any insight, help, suggestions, etc.  They've held on for nearly 3 weeks now, but they're not responding to medicine and are getting harder and harder to feed. 

I have seen a few babies who's poop was suddenly white, they were immediately pulled off of the formula they were on and fed Petag brand KMR and were able to recover, the third one was already on Petag brand KMR so we put him on goats milk and he also recovered.

This is supposed to be  sign of infection intestinally, however that has never been the case, but instead a bad reaction to their formula brand.

This is how I learned that Hartz brand KMR is too iffy and never will use it again.

Only Petag.

Now, I could tell you many stories about vets who had no clue how to care for young kittens, they simply do not, as you have found.

The bloody diarrhea is likely coccidia and needs ponazuril.

But first and most important issue right this minute is to get them eating enough.

I have told many, many fosters to watch out about 2 1/2-3 weeks old, some will suddenly not want to eat, I teach this in my neonatal kitten care class as well, it's that common.

No idea why it is, but suddenly they lose the desire to eat and will fight it lots. They will go downhill and end up dying, but you can stop this from happening simply by making sure they continue to eat the same amt they were eating prior, and it will pass in a couple of days and they return to normal.

It doesn't sound to me that they are being fed nearly enough. If they are sucking on each other already, it's because they are lacking the ability to nurse or suck on a bottle enough. This is young for them to have started already so they are seriously lacking the bottle.

Make sure the bottle nipple is cut appropriately, you should be able to tip the bottle over, a drop will quickly form but won't run out unless the bottle is shook down. This is the right amt to cut.

Now, if they are not eating enough with the bottle, they must be syringe fed too, or entirely if they don't want the bottle at all, whatever it takes, patience and persistence, it doesn't matter however long, etc. they MUST eat enough to thrive.

Please put them back together, and start feeding them much more.

If it's too time consuming for you then get some help or another foster.

Apple bitter spray might help this too, but regardless they are not eating enough and won't end up making it eventually.

They have really fallen behind now already so it's going to take some time and work to turn this around now.

Be sure to feed only Petag brand KMR.

 

[crowinghen]

Just a brief update: The kitten I was most concerned about has eaten 8-10 ml per meal without syringe feeding for 5 of his 7 most recent feedings.  He had been holding at 7.7 oz, not losing, but not gaining since losing his appetite.  At his 10:00 feeding last night he was up to 8.2.  So while I'd like to see him closer to 10ml than 8 per meal at that weight (we're doing 7 feedings a day) it is a significant improvement over what he had been doing.  I have been treating the turkey the same as KMR by volume.   Is that right?  Or should he take in more or less of the turkey relative to his body weight?

 

[StefanZ]

 
Just a brief update: The kitten I was most concerned about has eaten 8-10 ml per meal without syringe feeding for 5 of his 7 most recent feedings.  He had been holding at 7.7 oz, not losing, but not gaining since losing his appetite.  At his 10:00 feeding last night he was up to 8.2.  So while I'd like to see him closer to 10ml than 8 per meal at that weight (we're doing 7 feedings a day) it is a significant improvement over what he had been doing.  I have been treating the turkey the same as KMR by volume.   Is that right?  Or should he take in more or less of the turkey relative to his body weight?

I suppose in practice we cant count much differently.  Its great the negative trend is broken, better a stand still then downgrading...  But stand still more than one-two days isnt good either, so you must try to increase something.  Either a little more often, or somewhat bigger portions.

If there is much turkey - I suppose its mostly muscle meat?  He must have also some calcium to it...

You do have this KMR, can you get ANY goat milk?  Raw is best - but almost any goat milks works, bottled, cannned etc, as long as itsn no funny low fat version.

So, add some turkey if he eats it, but dont forget calcium rich foods, ex KMR or goat milk...

 

[Sarthur2]

Since he has now finally gained weight, you are clearly doing well with the feedings. I suggest you continue the ratio you are using, and just try to get more in. As he continues to gain, you may want to go 50-50. Just play it by ear. How is the diarrhea situation?

 

[crowinghen]

He still has diarrhea, but color is darkening a bit to a browner shade.  I may be fooling myself, but it seems like the texture is less curdled, though still far too runny.  I'm hoping it's a slow progress toward healthier stools.  Will see what I can find in goats milk.  We're in a rural area.  I'm sure someone somewhere has some, but not within my personal network.  Have put out feelers to local friends hoping they know someone who knows someone.  Nothing on craigslist.  Our local stores are very small and only have very basic groceries, but I'll try to get to a bigger town over the weekend where I can probably find some in a store. 

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, turning brown is good, but it still needs to become more formed. Finding goat's milk would be a blessing. I'm wondering if the vet might recommend trying a different antibiotic, such as clavamox. Also, sprinkling a probiotic into the formula may help the flora in the digestive tract.

 

[crowinghen]

Thank you everyone, for all of your help.  The little guy weighed 9 oz this morning, so still showing good upward progress. That's 1.3 oz gained in 3 days.  Much more in line with what I like to see.  He is becoming more inclined to take his full ration from the bottle too, so not having to supplement with the syringe so often.  He is hungry and playful, so those seem like good signs.  (And he's demanding.  He wants me to carry him around rather than leave him in his box.)

I've never used pumpkin before, so I had a follow up question if someone doesn't mind.  I've added about a Tablespoon to a half-cup of formula.  (It also includes plain yogurt, and turkey as well as KMR and probiotics - a real witches brew.)  They are having a bowel movement every feeding (every 3 hours).   Is that to be expected?  The texture and color are improved, and the kittens are certainly more comfortable.  In fact, just seeing distinct bowel movements instead of constant leakage is an improvement.  But I was concerned that they're still going more often than is typical.  Should I see fewer stools with the pumpkin?  Or just better texture?  (I'm happy with the improvements so far, but since it's my first time using pumpkin I just would like to know if this is what I should be seeing?)

Thank you all

 

[Sarthur2]

It's perfectly normal. The brew sounds fantastic. I love that the little guy has become demanding! So glad they are all doing well! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[catwoman707]

All sounds just great!

You can probably cut down on the amt of pumpkin added though too, maybe in half, it will cause lots of pooping due to the fiber