Ok my lilac point Simeese key kong got out came home pregnant had one kitten but it's all black? Looks just like her at almost 5 months old he's duke kong!! Is he a seal point ? Is he an oriental? He doesn't look like a tabby
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Black Siamese ?????!
- Thread starter kiki1hanibull
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Oh what a cutie!!!
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Oh that's beautiful. My parents had a Siamese who had a single black kitten too. She was 6.5 pounds and he was 17 as an adult but she still curled on him every night. [emoji]128522[/emoji]
He's half Siamese, half domestic 
. I don't think you can call him an Oriental with a random father. Solid black is just solid black, not pointed or tabby. He's a handsome boy!
. I don't think you can call him an Oriental with a random father. Solid black is just solid black, not pointed or tabby. He's a handsome boy!
I agree with Willowy. Here it is easy, mix siamese - domestic, ie strictly speaking he is an domestic. He is also a look alike of an Oriental.
Unless you DO have an Oriental stud as nearest neigbour, who is allowed to free roam outside.... And he seems also to be the only tom around. In THIS rare case you would prob be allowed to call him for an Oriental, yes.
Otherwise, a siamese mated with a non siamese, the kittens will almost surely be non points, although they will be carrieres of the point gene.
The other significant must himself be at least a carrier of the point gene, for the kittens to be pointed them too.
But taken from the title. The question what counts a pure bred siamese, whom is black? Lets dwell on it a little, its interesting!
The short answer is, It depends on association!
I had a funny experience with it on one of my first Shows, where I was with my oldest resident, a Russian blue boy, a stud to be.
Looking across the row, I saw several beautiful siameses. I noticed them because I normally wasnt very much fond of siameses. So I went to the owner, and said so. He smiled, thanked, and asked me friendly if I knew the difference between siameses and orientals. No, to speak the thruth Im unsure of it, I said.
He pointed: you see, these here to the left, them with masques and points, THEY are siameses. These here to the right, all solid in one color, most blacks alike mine, are Orientals. As you see, the body shape is practically the same. They are practically twin breeds, quite heavy interbred with each other. So, if there happens in an Oriental litter to be a masqued kitten, it gets registered as a Siamese. And, if in a Siamese litter, there happens to be a kitten without the masque, all solid - rare but it happens - it gets registered as Oriental.
This is possible, as they are practically twin breeds, and both groups near cooperating...
So, to your question, in Europe, and our big association of Fife, a black siamese would be registered and get certificate as oriental.
But my Forum collegues told me in the big American associations its slightly different. Yes, also here the breeds are near akin. But the regulations and cooperation istn as close. So they are registered as they are born. And thus, in USA its possible to find pointed and masqued Orientales, with certificates and all. And also black siameses, with certificates and all.
Although this later is rare: Two pointed cats who mates, give practically always pointed kittens. I really dont understand how the exceptions may occur, and must cast this on the Mother Natures whimses.
Good luck!
Unless you DO have an Oriental stud as nearest neigbour, who is allowed to free roam outside.... And he seems also to be the only tom around. In THIS rare case you would prob be allowed to call him for an Oriental, yes.
Otherwise, a siamese mated with a non siamese, the kittens will almost surely be non points, although they will be carrieres of the point gene.
The other significant must himself be at least a carrier of the point gene, for the kittens to be pointed them too.
But taken from the title. The question what counts a pure bred siamese, whom is black? Lets dwell on it a little, its interesting!
The short answer is, It depends on association!
I had a funny experience with it on one of my first Shows, where I was with my oldest resident, a Russian blue boy, a stud to be.
Looking across the row, I saw several beautiful siameses. I noticed them because I normally wasnt very much fond of siameses. So I went to the owner, and said so. He smiled, thanked, and asked me friendly if I knew the difference between siameses and orientals. No, to speak the thruth Im unsure of it, I said.
He pointed: you see, these here to the left, them with masques and points, THEY are siameses. These here to the right, all solid in one color, most blacks alike mine, are Orientals. As you see, the body shape is practically the same. They are practically twin breeds, quite heavy interbred with each other. So, if there happens in an Oriental litter to be a masqued kitten, it gets registered as a Siamese. And, if in a Siamese litter, there happens to be a kitten without the masque, all solid - rare but it happens - it gets registered as Oriental.
This is possible, as they are practically twin breeds, and both groups near cooperating...
So, to your question, in Europe, and our big association of Fife, a black siamese would be registered and get certificate as oriental.
But my Forum collegues told me in the big American associations its slightly different. Yes, also here the breeds are near akin. But the regulations and cooperation istn as close. So they are registered as they are born. And thus, in USA its possible to find pointed and masqued Orientales, with certificates and all. And also black siameses, with certificates and all.
Although this later is rare: Two pointed cats who mates, give practically always pointed kittens. I really dont understand how the exceptions may occur, and must cast this on the Mother Natures whimses.
Good luck!
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This is duke also known as John Wayne! lol he's 4 months old great addition to family.
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This is Kiki, it's dukes mama when she was 6 was 7 was old, she is now almost 4!
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