Bad Cat!

[auroraborealis]

My room mate's cat is so bad! He does everything in his power to misbehave! I have been researching everywhere but all of the articles are specific problems like scratching and litter boxes.

Sammy's problem is going where he is not supposed to go. He is not allowed on the landing by the front door because he tries to run away, he is not allowed on the dining room table but he uses it to get up on a ledge he likes. And now he's just walking all over the table like it's nothing! He has also found new climbing spots in my room like my window ledge, dresser, and bookshelf. I have tried everything the articles have told me about deterring this behaivour but if anything he is getting worse!

I put tinfoil on the table and he didn't like it but he would just find a way around it. And when there was no way around it, he just walked on it anyway. I use a squirt bottle when he is downstairs but that has no effect and now I am reading that squirt bottles are bad. Cat owners are confusing!

We have one other cat, who is about four to five months younger than Sammy (who is 1 year old) but I am very careful about dealing out an equal amount of attention.

Right now, a can of pennies is working, but it is also scaring my other cat.

Any suggestions? I'm at the end of my rope!!

 

[fifi1puss]

Cats like to be up high. It is a basic need for them. I don't think you are going to find a way to deter him for good from going where he likes to, cats are just like that.

I live with it because the thought of "policing" my cat is not my idea of a good time when I get home from work.

I love 'em, so I live with the issues they come with.

With that said, it will help if you have lots of cat trees around the house so he can be up high but in a "proper" way. Put them in the places he already goes using those no-no areas. That will help alot. But I doubt it will get him to stop completely going where you don't want him too.

I know people here have used a product called Scat! you may want to do a search for that product. They say its successful. But be mindful that if you don't replace these high up places with acceptable alternatives he could get destructive in other ways and become very miserable.

Good luck and welcome to TCS!

 

[auroraborealis]

The cats already have a cat tree. Sammy absolutely loves being king of the castle up there, but he doesn't use it every time. My biggest issue is the dining room table. I'm not about to just let my cat walk all over where I eat because that is just his nature....

 

[fifi1puss]

Since you went through the effort of putting foil on your d.r. table (which must have really sucked) it shouldn't be any worse to just grab some disinfecting wipes and wipe down food surfaces before they are used. You can stop him when you are home but they are definately going to walk all over those surfaces when you are away...so it should be wiped down anyway probably.

I think the Scat! gives a burst of air when they come near the area, but for a large dining table I don't think one would work and you don't want the whole table littered with the Scat machines.

In know they have sticky tape as well, but having to remove that EVERY SINGLE TIME you want to use the table might be more work than just wiping it down...

It will be interesting to see if anyone else has any ideas because I really don't think there are...but I'd like to know if there are.

 

[stephanietx]

Can you go to the home improvement store and buy some plastic carpet runners? You can cut them to the size of the table, then turn them upside down on top of the table so that the little nubs are pointed up. Kitties don't like the feel of those things and will soon not want to be where it's uncomfortable.

Also, maybe getting one of those stick on the window bird feeders and placing it outside the window where his cat tree is (if that's possible & easy to get to) will keep him entertained enough to stay on the cat tree.

Lastly, look at other ways to provide alternative routes to the places he's going instead of using the table. Maybe putting a chair for him to hop up onto instead of the table will help.

 

[gloriajh]

he isn't "bad" - he's just a little smarty pants - it's a lot harder when a cat is not a compliant smarty pants - it's hard to think like a cat when your only a human, huh!

 

[auroraborealis]

He is most certainly a little smarty pants. He's a stubborn little smarty pants. Call me territorial however, I am not about to let another Alpha walk all over me when I am the Alpha of the house hahaha

 

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by auroraborealis

He is most certainly a little smarty pants. He's a stubborn little smarty pants. Call me territorial however, I am not about to let another Alpha walk all over me when I am the Alpha of the house hahaha

Good luck with that, but it's possible the cat will get the last hahaha in this one. I don't believe they have an actual concept of right and wrong/forbidden or permitted, it's just a matter of what they want and how do they obtain it.
The only places in my house that the cats are not allowed are the places where they could get hurt, and the only way I can enforce that is by making them unreachable. To try and actually control where they go any other way would take all my free time and only be effective while I was there.

 

[yayi]

Originally Posted by fifi1puss

just grab some disinfecting wipes and wipe down food surfaces before they are used. You can stop him when you are home but they are definately going to walk all over those surfaces when you are away...so it should be wiped down anyway probably.

Definitely sensible. My cats go wherever they please so I always wipe the counters and tables before I eat or prepare food.

 

[mommysugar]

I had a shelter lady tell me that she would blow in the cats face when her water bottle wasn't around.

I think the blow technique with some time should do the trick or you could try double sided tape or flip a car mat upside down on the table (that would be alot of mats though) because cats don't like the nubby texture.

Tell us what you find that did work though.

I use the puff of air in the puss method which somewhat works, but only when I am around and I only don't like my cat up on my cooking and eating surfaces because he has frequent and constant diarrhea and leaves little poo splotches everywhere so I follow him around wiping his butt with baby wipes heh.

I would like to try using the water bottle trick, but it seems kinda harsh and I would be mad at myself if using the water bottle put a wedge in his feelings toward me.

I have found that telling kitty no and picking him up from whatever surface he is on and laying him on my shoulder while I finishing brushing my teeth or whatever I am doing works because it seems he just really wants to be where I am and gets curious.

 

[esrandall2000]

Originally Posted by auroraborealis

He is most certainly a little smarty pants. He's a stubborn little smarty pants. Call me territorial however, I am not about to let another Alpha walk all over me when I am the Alpha of the house hahaha

With all due respect, you might have a calmer household if you were the one to change your attitude. A cat is not a dog. And thank goodness for that!

 

[trouts mom]

Originally Posted by auroraborealis

He is most certainly a little smarty pants. He's a stubborn little smarty pants. Call me territorial however, I am not about to let another Alpha walk all over me when I am the Alpha of the house hahaha

The cat is always the Alpha.

 

[ldg]

Originally Posted by auroraborealis

He is most certainly a little smarty pants. He's a stubborn little smarty pants. Call me territorial however, I am not about to let another Alpha walk all over me when I am the Alpha of the house hahaha

I think an explanation of why people are reacting the way they are to this statement may help you understand the root of the problem.

Cats and dogs do not have a sense of "right" and "wrong" as we understand them. Dogs can learn behavior we accept as good and behavior we do not accept as bad, because they are programmed at the genetic level differently than cats are. Dogs developed a hierarchical social structure because they hunt in packs. There is an alpha and a clearly defined structure in order to effectively procure food for the pack. This works in dog-human relationships with human as alpha, and dog being submissive to alpha and wanting to make and keep alpha happy.

Cats do not have this. They do not hunt in packs and thus have developed a totally different social structure. While we talk about "alpha" cat, this has a completely different meaning when it comes to describing both cats relationships to each other and to humans. It has much more to do with how aggressive they are - who would get that piece of carrion lying there, or which male would mate with the female in heat.... but it has nothing to do with which cat the others follow. That being the case, humans actually have no place in a cat social hierarchy like we can with a dog's.

As Bookworm points out, cats are not in a relationship to make us happy, but to make themselves happy. They need to be motivated by something else - an alternative that is better - or be denied access to whatever is causing the problem.

This is why punishing a cat does not work - and while it may not be a path some people would take or recommend with dogs, it can work to train a dog. It simply backfires with a cat, and makes them distrust you - not stop the behavior.

So while an important part of the equation is that they be made to understand you don't want them up there, the part of the equation that will make them not go up there is being denied access - or being provided a better alternative. These are the only ways to make it work.

That said - cats that understand we don't want them on the counters (and they can definitely come to understand that!) will hop up there when we're not around.

A cat's approach to life - generally speaking - is "what's in it for me?" And they are not about making us happy, so knowing we're unhappy about a behavior is not going to stop it. We simply don't figure into their social hierarchy.

So if every time kitty jumps up on the dining room table and lands on prickly things, he'll stop jumping up on the dining room table.

Or you could just wipe it down before you use it.

 

[esrandall2000]

Originally Posted by Trouts mom

The cat is always the Alpha.

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[addiebee]

Originally Posted by LDG

I think an explanation of why people are reacting the way they are to this statement may help you understand the root of the problem.

Cats and dogs do not have a sense of "right" and "wrong" as we understand them. Dogs can learn behavior we accept as good and behavior we do not accept as bad, because they are programmed at the genetic level differently than cats are. Dogs developed a hierarchical social structure because they hunt in packs. There is an alpha and a clearly defined structure in order to effectively procure food for the pack. This works in dog-human relationships with human as alpha, and dog being submissive to alpha and wanting to make and keep alpha happy.

Cats do not have this. They do not hunt in packs and thus have developed a totally different social structure. While we talk about "alpha" cat, this has a completely different meaning when it comes to describing both cats relationships to each other and to humans. It has much more to do with how aggressive they are - who would get that piece of carrion lying there, or which male would mate with the female in heat.... but it has nothing to do with which cat the others follow. That being the case, humans actually have no place in a cat social hierarchy like we can with a dog's.

As Bookworm points out, cats are not in a relationship to make us happy, but to make themselves happy. They need to be motivated by something else - an alternative that is better - or be denied access to whatever is causing the problem.

This is why punishing a cat does not work - and while it may not be a path some people would take or recommend with dogs, it can work to train a dog. It simply backfires with a cat, and makes them distrust you - not stop the behavior.

So while an important part of the equation is that they be made to understand you don't want them up there, the part of the equation that will make them not go up there is being denied access - or being provided a better alternative. These are the only ways to make it work.

That said - cats that understand we don't want them on the counters (and they can definitely come to understand that!) will hop up there when we're not around.

A cat's approach to life - generally speaking - is "what's in it for me?" And they are not about making us happy, so knowing we're unhappy about a behavior is not going to stop it. We simply don't figure into their social hierarchy.

So if every time kitty jumps up on the dining room table and lands on prickly things, he'll stop jumping up on the dining room table.

Or you could just wipe it down before you use it.

Well stated, Laurie. Especially when you are dealing with a willfull kitty.

Re: their social hierarchy ... we are of use to them b/c we have opposable thumbs and can open cans of food and dangle enticing toys!!

 

[bookworm]

Don't forget that we have a large body mass compared to theirs and provide lots of body heat.

 

[gloriajh]

My thoughts.
I think the way a cat behaves is all about his/her attempts to communicate with us.

Sometimes we're smart enough to understand what they are trying to say, and sometimes we're not - and their activity just seems like (in human terms) bad behavior.

We have three cats with which we share inside space.

When hungry:
One cat (our oldest-KiKi) learned that walking on our face to wake us up was very effective communication. Another thing he would do was walk on the clock radio (it's flat with controls on the top) so the radio turned on. When we're awake he walks around our legs, or climbs up in our laps and purrs loudly. Oh, and he will also meow incessantly - believe me, we run to the food to get him to stop "talking". Other times he will show his frustration with our lack of response by picking a fight with -usually - his little sassy sister.

Another one (Simon) will get me up in the morning by walking on my head, or chest. He's the one who taught me to say "show me" when I know he wants some cookies. He then leads me to his designated spot for his cookies. (Now all three know what "show me" means and they come running from all parts of the house if I say "show me".) Simon seems to have found more efficient keys of communicating what his needs are.
Another way he communicates is by tapping me on the arm as I'm sitting here at the computer. If the light tapping doesn't work then he taps harder with a try at a little nibble. I think I was able to communicate that a nibble was NOT acceptable by yelling loudly, "OUCH" because he no longer will do the nibble part.

- he's the most sensitive of the three.

The little girl (Phoebe) - well, she's just another story. She first began getting our attention by what we call "fish flops". Once we began to understand her language - she then began displaying her "fancy pants dance" ... don't you know her furdaddy just can't resist that!

Now, if we don't comply to their attempts at communication, or don't seem to understand - then they try other means to get our attention - like getting on the table, or counter tops, or by whatever other means they know to get our attention and be fed. Come to think of it, that does sound human-like, huh!

They're not being "bad", they just know we aren't all that smart and that they need to communicate "louder".

Now if they are about to do something than endangers them, I just resort to (in human terms) whatever is the quickest to keep them safe.
For example: If one is on top of a door partition and is about to fall, I do grab him/her off the partition.

In another case, I never take them outside unless it's for a trip to the vet, or something very necessary. They have a natural fear of the unknown territory and when I open the door they are less likely to run outside. (I have a sign on my door (with their pics) about not letting the cats out.

When I take them outside they are always in a carrier, I don't want them to become familiar with outside, in this case their fear is what keeps them safe inside the house. Now, I may be thinking like a human, but I've found that this works for me and helps keep them from trying to get outside.

(The four outside cats - well, they just watch us and really don't try to communicate all that much. One is learning that I respond if she sits by the patio door, other than that they don't seem to really care too much, just provide them the food, water, shelter, and beds - and they're content.)

This website is kind of like a University of Cat Learning in that we are able to share our findings about our cats so that we can be better communicators and caretakers.

 

[mysterycat]

We the same cat! Scratching and the table thing, our sofa is now full of scratches I heard that orange and lemon smell could be a great help.

My cat jumps over the table if he is hungry.

 

[esrandall2000]

Originally Posted by GloriaJH

My thoughts.
I think the way a cat behaves is all about his/her attempts to communicate with us.

Sometimes we're smart enough to understand what they are trying to say, and sometimes we're not - and their activity just seems like (in human terms) bad behavior.

We have three cats with which we share inside space.

When hungry:
One cat (our oldest-KiKi) learned that walking on our face to wake us up was very effective communication. Another thing he would do was walk on the clock radio (it's flat with controls on the top) so the radio turned on. When we're awake he walks around our legs, or climbs up in our laps and purrs loudly. Oh, and he will also meow incessantly - believe me, we run to the food to get him to stop "talking". Other times he will show his frustration with our lack of response by picking a fight with -usually - his little sassy sister.

Another one (Simon) will get me up in the morning by walking on my head, or chest. He's the one who taught me to say "show me" when I know he wants some cookies. He then leads me to his designated spot for his cookies. (Now all three know what "show me" means and they come running from all parts of the house if I say "show me".) Simon seems to have found more efficient keys of communicating what his needs are.
Another way he communicates is by tapping me on the arm as I'm sitting here at the computer. If the light tapping doesn't work then he taps harder with a try at a little nibble. I think I was able to communicate that a nibble was NOT acceptable by yelling loudly, "OUCH" because he no longer will do the nibble part.

- he's the most sensitive of the three.

The little girl (Phoebe) - well, she's just another story. She first began getting our attention by what we call "fish flops". Once we began to understand her language - she then began displaying her "fancy pants dance" ... don't you know her furdaddy just can't resist that!

Now, if we don't comply to their attempts at communication, or don't seem to understand - then they try other means to get our attention - like getting on the table, or counter tops, or by whatever other means they know to get our attention and be fed. Come to think of it, that does sound human-like, huh!

They're not being "bad", they just know we aren't all that smart and that they need to communicate "louder".

Now if they are about to do something than endangers them, I just resort to (in human terms) whatever is the quickest to keep them safe.
For example: If one is on top of a door partition and is about to fall, I do grab him/her off the partition.

In another case, I never take them outside unless it's for a trip to the vet, or something very necessary. They have a natural fear of the unknown territory and when I open the door they are less likely to run outside. (I have a sign on my door (with their pics) about not letting the cats out.

When I take them outside they are always in a carrier, I don't want them to become familiar with outside, in this case their fear is what keeps them safe inside the house. Now, I may be thinking like a human, but I've found that this works for me and helps keep them from trying to get outside.

(The four outside cats - well, they just watch us and really don't try to communicate all that much. One is learning that I respond if she sits by the patio door, other than that they don't seem to really care too much, just provide them the food, water, shelter, and beds - and they're content.)

This website is kind of like a University of Cat Learning in that we are able to share our findings about our cats so that we can be better communicators and caretakers.

Beautifully said!

:cr ackup:

:c rackup:

: crackup: