Attention Breeders...???

[yosemite]

It's all a matter of difference of opinion and preference as far as I can see. I personally much prefer the Applehead or Traditional Siamese over the Modern Wedge Siamese. Because it is my preference, I'm fully prepared to pay far more than $50 for my pet quality Applehead Siamese from a breeder who is keeping their lines pure and breeding with integrity than I would for a Modern Wedge and that is ONLY because I like the way they look better and I love their personality and disposition.

I also agree with Cyberkitten in that the remark about not paying more than $50 was totally unjustified. One has to pay more than that at a pound for a moggie.

I sometimes find Modern Siamese Breeders to be a bit snobbish and I'm hoping that's not where this poster was coming from. Every breed has something wonderful about it that makes it attractive to different folks for different reasons, i.e., Ragdolls - laid back, Bengals - active, Persians - gentle, etc. To put one type of cat down over another just isn't right in my books and that's basically what was done by saying an Applehead pet is not worth more than $50. This poster couldn't be more wrong in my opinion.

My 2 cents for what it's worth and now I'm down off my soapbox.

 

[bengalbabe]

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I'm sure you all love your cats, but IMO why breed cats when you cannot show them? Just because you like a certain "look"? My cats didn't get bred until they were shown and either granded or close to it. I proved I had a good cat. I did my research on lines, etc. And most important I had a waiting list BEFORE anyone was bred.

If and when the traditionals are shown in major associations and proven themselves, then you can charge those same kind of prices. Otherwise, what justification are you using?

The truth is that some cats cannot be shown. What if you have a cat that hates shows and never does very well because they hate shows? Should you not breed that cat? What if it fits the standard very well or has a trait that your breeding for in your program-should you not breed that cat? NONSENSE!
Just because a cat cant be shown dosen't mean it won't have anything valuable to offer to your breeding program.
I've seen ugly duckling kittens come from grand champion parents, so you can't judge a cat's breed worthyness from a title. Just because the parents are champions doesn't mean the kittens will always be great and just because the parents might not have shown dosen't mean the kittens wont be great.
It only takes one really great kitten to change your whole breeding program and make a huge impact on the breed as a whole. I've seen it happen numerous times in the bengal breed and the parents of those cats wern't even shown because they did not accept silvers for championship status!
Because the bengal breed is advancing so rapidly some of the cats who won titles 2 years ago would'nt stand a chance against the cats in the rings now (IMO). So titles really mean nothing when your trying to accomplish a certain goal, whatever that may be.

 

[goldenkitty45]

I realize that all cats cannot be shown. However, if you've shown cats, you know that the standard is, you know what the quality is and you know what you are looking for. You might have one or two the can't be shown but the qualities are there for breeding.

I can't see the point of breeding cats that NONE of them can be shown - you are just adding to the population and the cats looking for homes in the shelters. Go on Petfinders and put in "siamese" and see all the ones sitting there - many of them are the "old fashioned" type of siamese. Then tell me you can still justify breeding your cat because you don't like the modern style that can compete.

My one rex female really didn't like showing much - she didn't like the other cats, but I got her championship and she produced grand champions. Yes some grands don't produce quality. However, if you have too many "pet" quality you will have a hard time ever getting "grand' quality.

 

[kai bengals]

Originally Posted by bengalbabe

Because the bengal breed is advancing so rapidly some of the cats who won titles 2 years ago would'nt stand a chance against the cats in the rings now (IMO). So titles really mean nothing when your trying to accomplish a certain goal, whatever that may be.

That is VERY true!

 

[solaritybengals]

It seems to me that bengal breeders have a very different concept of the importance of showing (not just on the boards, but just in general talking to everyone). Showing dosen't seem AS important. Maybe its because bengals are TICA only , because of development, early generations, etc.

I'm just commenting more or less on general attitude being different. I don't think other breeders understand what a different atmosphere it is for this breed. Where other breeds showing is the foundation of the success of a line.

I'm not sure it I'm saying what I'm trying to say

.

 

[kai bengals]

Originally Posted by SolarityBengals

It seems to me that bengal breeders have a very different concept of the importance of showing (not just on the boards, but just in general talking to everyone). Showing dosen't seem AS important. Maybe its because bengals are TICA only , because of development, early generations, etc.

Well speaking just for us, we regard showing to be very important. Not only does it guide us in what the judges are looking for in the breed standards, but we get to see what other bengal breeders think make good show cats.
We get to see first hand how our cats stack up to other breeders cats.
I don't always agree with the judges decisions at each show, but the idea is to go to numerous shows and get a well rounded idea of how the breed standard is evolving.
I personally believe that showing your cats is crucial at this point in the bengal breed's development.

 

[bengalbabe]

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

Well speaking just for us, we regard showing to be very important. Not only does it guide us in what the judges are looking for in the breed standards, but we get to see what other bengal breeders think make good show cats.
We get to see first hand how our cats stack up to other breeders cats.
I don't always agree with the judges decisions at each show, but the idea is to go to numerous shows and get a well rounded idea of how the breed standard is evolving.
I personally believe that showing your cats is crucial at this point in the bengal breed's development.

I agree with this statement too. But even if your not showing it's best to attand shows. The development of the breed is happening so rapidly that we will get left behind in our breeding goals if we don't at least know whats being produced and how they are comparing to the breed standard.
I just don't agree that a cat is not breed worthy if we don't show them, that's all.

 

[joecool]

I hate(not really) to interupt this argument, but i have an interesting tidbit on appleheads. A man i know that loves cats happens to have an obviously purebred applehead siamese, which he found abandoned and kept. It is a very nice cat, and he wonders if it was a horrible breeder or a horrible owner that abandoned such a nice cat. But i think it is very interesting!

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by joecool

I hate(not really) to interupt this argument, but i have an interesting tidbit on appleheads. A man i know that loves cats happens to have an obviously purebred applehead siamese, which he found abandoned and kept. It is a very nice cat, and he wonders if it was a horrible breeder or a horrible owner that abandoned such a nice cat. But i think it is very interesting!

Good point Joe. There are some pretty dreadful owners out there that want a furry little kitty then when the kitty acts like a kitty, they want to "get rid of it".

Methinks a lot of responsible, wonderful breeders get bad rep from people who know little to nothing of their dedication and love for the animals they are striving to keep the integrity in the bloodlines.

 

[bengalbabe]

It also might be possible that this kitty (the one joecool was speaking of) is not a siamese at all. Just because it has siamese coloring dosen't make it a siamese. If one knows color genetics of a cat they would understand that.
People are starting to do that with bengals too. Every stray that is found that has a few spots is now labeled as a 'bengal". It drives me nuts because now it looks like there are so many homeless bengals running around. There are plenty of spotted tabbys that do not have an ounce of bengal blood in them and that was the case before the bengal breed ever came into existence! But to make the moggies more adoptable they call them siamese if they have the coloring or bengals if they have some spots.

 

[gayef]

I think the original poster's questions were more than satisfactorily addressed here and since this thread is becoming a free-for-all, it is now time to close it down.

If you all would like, let's start a new thread on the showing/not showing aspect of things, shall we?

~gf~