Nor is "Doll faced"
I'm not unfamiliar with the term I hear it at TCS all the time.
Oh Hope, I'm not trying to be fiesty either!
Originally Posted by carolcat
Gee, thanks for the offer ........hurm......"little peeing wonder" huh? Purrrhaps I will pass this time
The problem as I see it is where it says '"break centered between the eyes.' You can't get the break centered between the eyes (at least I don't see how) with a short nose without having an extreme face.
It would be better to have some sort of moderation, but I don't see it happening.
Aww linebreeding is wonderful. We try not to outcross too much here at Captivating.
You're kind of missing the point...Persian cats with horribly extreme faces don't WIN. Persians with sweet open expressioned faces do. See the cat on the left of my signature, Holly, she has won Best in show time after time after time and she has a sweet expressioned face and has no breathing troubles and she is NOT extreme. Extreme is when the nose pushes up past the eyes and when gutters are present.
Not arguing, we're having a debateOriginally Posted by WellingtonCats
Cindy, that's right with the nose break between the eyes!
See my girls in my signature - they are perfect examples for that sentance!
Yup mine are definitly show type and definitly extreme compared to any other persians here at TCS BUT I don't think they are extreme compared to the cats of the past years, the ones with DEEP gutters, deep set eyes etc etc. The long nosed Persians are more modern then we think. They don't have all the eye/nose problems like they did back then. that's a good thing!Originally Posted by RoseHawke
Not arguing, we're having a debate.
I think we might need to define our terms here. Your cats are what *I* call show type (heh, that's a no-brainer) and are more "extreme" (obviously) than the original breeding stock.
Just a point of curiosity, it may be more homogenized than I think---here's a link to pix of several of CFA's top cats (don't want to hot-link their pix) CFA TOP CATS would you say they're more extreme, less extreme, or right on compared to your Persians in NZ/Aus? I just wonder how much importing/exporting and trading of lines worldwide goes on.
edit: You mentioned "sweet open expression", I know I've seen this somewhere, but not in CFA apparently. TICA?
The only problem I see is that this cat is not from that site. Where on the site did you find that cat? All the cats on that site have what you would consider a long nose. THis is link to their male cats. Clearly, all of them have normally proportioned noses.Originally Posted by WellingtonCats
Cindy, this is what I & most of NZ Persian breeders will consider as extreme
This is a cat from this site here
http://www.nemr.net/~poppy1/
They consider themselves to be "Doll faced Persian breeders"
To me that cat is very extreme and that's health problems..
Ah, then this is a good thing youngling. It has been many years since I was very interested in Persians and Himalayans, and then they WERE very extreme with noses pushed right up into their faces. ExcellentOriginally Posted by WellingtonCats
Yup mine are definitly show type and definitly extreme compared to any other persians here at TCS BUT I don't think they are extreme compared to the cats of the past years, the ones with DEEP gutters, deep set eyes etc etc. The long nosed Persians are more modern then we think. They don't have all the eye/nose problems like they did back then. that's a good thing!
Oh they are very similar to our cats. They are just right on to what we have. Very, very beautiful cats.
We have sweet open expression in our NZCF standard but even though CFA doesn't that's what they're striving for, and look at that link you sent me all those three cats have what is described as a sweet open expression. Beautiful.
I wouldn't have a clue about TICA. From what i've heard from breeders here in NZ they are no match to CFA. Which IMO is the leading cat organization of our modern world.
I am glad you like line breeding. For me personaly its not something I choose to do. I MIGHT MIGHT line breed my one mare, because her lines are very hard to cross well if you dont line bred. But I have seen so many lines of horses and dogs go BAD because people dont know the diffrence between Line breeding, and IN breeding. thats a whole diffrent topic. But hey as long as you guys know what your doing, and are getting good results. more power! I wont argue with you. Just something I myself shy away from. Heck if we didnt outcross, in the Arabian world we wouldnt have what we call the Golden crossesOriginally Posted by WellingtonCats
Aww linebreeding is wonderful. We try not to outcross too much here at Captivating.
I'm glad you feel that way. Trust me a cat with breathing troubles will NOT do well at a show. A persian with breeding troubles is very irresponsible of the breeder. Don't associate all show quality Persians with this breathing trouble crap. My cats don't suffer from breathing trouble at all and look how beautiful they are!
I am very interested in what you are saying. We have two fancies in NZ. The leading NZCF and the rebel Catz In. That was started by a group of people who didn't like the NZCF strict rules and guidelines and judges training. At Catz Inc you don't even have to have a cat to become a cat judge or even have any prior knowledge!Originally Posted by RoseHawke
Ah, then this is a good thing youngling. It has been many years since I was very interested in Persians and Himalayans, and then they WERE very extreme with noses pushed right up into their faces. Excellent
I do know that the different registries do, or at least they did, have different styles. I ran into (not literally!) a lady at PetsMart one day (buying kitty litter, what else?) and discovered that she had showed ASH (American Shorthairs) and a friend of hers would evaluate a litter and divide them up, "This one for TICA, this one for CFA, this one for ACFA," depending on where she thought each would do best.
For instance, until fairly recently, Maine Coons were definitely different between CFA and TICA, with CFA having a "sweeter" expression, and TICA very much having a wilder, more "feral" look. TICA cats couldn't win in CFA and vice versa. They've pretty much come together now.
And you must take anything I say with a grain of salt anyway. I'm just an interested spectator.
He is beautiful without a doubt and I just love him, but I don't think Jasper would
Scaredy so looooves other cats. He adores my other cat, and constantly grooms him... I am sure Jasper will like him.Originally Posted by carolcat
He is beautiful without a doubt and I just love him, but I don't think Jasper would. Even though I am drooling at Ares and wanted a persian badly I think I had better call it quits while I am ahead. We have a balance right now, but he is certainly a beautiful boy and I love his "mr mischief" expression too! Is he playing the "touch my tummy and see what happens?" game. Thanks for showing me a close up of him....sigh.....So many kittys, so little time (and money and space)
He sounds like fun.Originally Posted by fluffysimba
Yep. The little bugger is a DOLL but he LOVES anything under the covers that moves! He's isolated in my bedroom and bathroom. Well he was until he discovered he could slip out under the door. **sigh** Katie is going to have SO much fun with this little guy. He's beautiful and sweet and soft and has the softest "mew".
~ Charity, the caregiver this week of Ares.
