Very well said Ken..you said what I was trying to say, but did so much more articulately than me
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Any thoughts on the outcome?
- Thread starter airprincess
- Start Date
Jury of peers is a bunch of crap. In some states, convicted felons can be members of a jury. In addition, jurors bring a lot of emotion into it- can't deal with the guilt and other stuff. I have never been on a jury, but let me share my experience with one..
3 years ago, the very last night of January, Jake and I were sound asleep in our bed. At about 2 am we heard a commotion, Jake and I jumped up and when he opened the bedroom door, there was this big man standing there and he said to Jake, "You're not going to do anything." We got out of the bedroom to find 3 OTHER men in our apartment, one of whom had our roommmate lying in his closet (head in body out) as he sat over him beating him repeatedly. I recognized the offender as this dirtbag we knew from High school. This dirtbag, Jeremy, was mad that our roommate had dated his ex. I tried to pull Jeremy off Drew and then went to the hallway. As Jeremy left the room he headbutted Jake, busting his eyebrow completely open. He then picked me up, threw me against the wall..I, being the feisty one that I am, was screaming expletives at him. I then got up and chased him and his goons out, got the license plate # etc. We could not identify the other 3- in fact, he wouldn't name them when he was caught. Well, you can imagine that the face of the man standing in my door was burned into my mind. I was okay to drive the 2 guys to the hospital that night, Drew (our roommate) had long flowing blonde hair- it was caked in blood. When the guys busted in, they knocked him down on the ground, kicked his head in, punched him, beat him with the phone, then picked him up (one at head, one at feet) and threw him into the closet. I did a composite for the police of the other guy..no luck. Finally, Im driving home from a final exam and who do I see?? The other guy, I did a U-Turn to get his license #. The police found him and questioned him and HE ADMITTED TO BEING A PART OF ALL OF IT on tape. He was there as an "enforcer". His attorney tried to tear me to shreds on the stand, he was cruel to me. Guess what? The jury of 12 of "my peers" let him walk without a thing. Then when Jeremy went to trial, they found him guilty of 1 felony charge and 2 misdemeanors..he abused 3 adults, almost killing one, and broke in, and the jury didn't convict him of more because they felt bad for him. He has held this girl and their child at gunpoint, he has fired a gun in his mothers home, he beat another guys head in with a bat, numerous drug charges, by the way, he drove to our apartment on a suspended license. He was sentenced to 6 yrs. they transferred it to work release 1 mo. after sentencing. GUess what? He escaped..imagine again the fear for my life as the star witness against him??? He is now in a prison. Jury trials suck- to be honest- the justice system sux. I can't tell you this story without shaking. I have terrible pains that shoot through my left shoulder and arm still. My husband and I are still terrified and scarred. Jeremy's brother was arrested during the trial for threatening and harassing us= at the courthouse. His parents glared me down each chance they had..his real father is in prison for a violent crime..On the day of his sentencing, I told him this: I have known you since middle school, we hold similar backgrounds, both of our fathers are in prison, but we made different choices...I made the choice to make my life right, you chose a life of drugs, alcohol, and violence. I pray that you receive a sentence that forces you to think about the crimes you have done, about the harm you brought to me...
Sorry this is so long- I just get so mad
when I hear about the fairness of a jury. HAHAHAHA!
3 years ago, the very last night of January, Jake and I were sound asleep in our bed. At about 2 am we heard a commotion, Jake and I jumped up and when he opened the bedroom door, there was this big man standing there and he said to Jake, "You're not going to do anything." We got out of the bedroom to find 3 OTHER men in our apartment, one of whom had our roommmate lying in his closet (head in body out) as he sat over him beating him repeatedly. I recognized the offender as this dirtbag we knew from High school. This dirtbag, Jeremy, was mad that our roommate had dated his ex. I tried to pull Jeremy off Drew and then went to the hallway. As Jeremy left the room he headbutted Jake, busting his eyebrow completely open. He then picked me up, threw me against the wall..I, being the feisty one that I am, was screaming expletives at him. I then got up and chased him and his goons out, got the license plate # etc. We could not identify the other 3- in fact, he wouldn't name them when he was caught. Well, you can imagine that the face of the man standing in my door was burned into my mind. I was okay to drive the 2 guys to the hospital that night, Drew (our roommate) had long flowing blonde hair- it was caked in blood. When the guys busted in, they knocked him down on the ground, kicked his head in, punched him, beat him with the phone, then picked him up (one at head, one at feet) and threw him into the closet. I did a composite for the police of the other guy..no luck. Finally, Im driving home from a final exam and who do I see?? The other guy, I did a U-Turn to get his license #. The police found him and questioned him and HE ADMITTED TO BEING A PART OF ALL OF IT on tape. He was there as an "enforcer". His attorney tried to tear me to shreds on the stand, he was cruel to me. Guess what? The jury of 12 of "my peers" let him walk without a thing. Then when Jeremy went to trial, they found him guilty of 1 felony charge and 2 misdemeanors..he abused 3 adults, almost killing one, and broke in, and the jury didn't convict him of more because they felt bad for him. He has held this girl and their child at gunpoint, he has fired a gun in his mothers home, he beat another guys head in with a bat, numerous drug charges, by the way, he drove to our apartment on a suspended license. He was sentenced to 6 yrs. they transferred it to work release 1 mo. after sentencing. GUess what? He escaped..imagine again the fear for my life as the star witness against him??? He is now in a prison. Jury trials suck- to be honest- the justice system sux. I can't tell you this story without shaking. I have terrible pains that shoot through my left shoulder and arm still. My husband and I are still terrified and scarred. Jeremy's brother was arrested during the trial for threatening and harassing us= at the courthouse. His parents glared me down each chance they had..his real father is in prison for a violent crime..On the day of his sentencing, I told him this: I have known you since middle school, we hold similar backgrounds, both of our fathers are in prison, but we made different choices...I made the choice to make my life right, you chose a life of drugs, alcohol, and violence. I pray that you receive a sentence that forces you to think about the crimes you have done, about the harm you brought to me...
Sorry this is so long- I just get so mad
We can go on forever, but we'll there will be diffences of opinion...especially if you didn't watch the trial...The trial is only NOT seen when there's a break taken within the court room. BS? HAHAHA Yeah, if it was you or someone you knew, you'd be singing a different tune. Whatever, believe what you want and I'll believe what I want...makes no difference..the guy's in jail now, but I bet your bottom buck he'll be out in no time.
No, if it was my brother in law, who plays hockey and whos son also plays hockey, in jail for doing the same thing, I'd say he deserved to be there. And, if he 'walks in no time' it will definitely show the justice system does indeed suck.
So sorry to hear about all these terrible things in your life Joce, but you're absolutely right and anyone that thinks that "wrong's" aren't present in our judicial system are without a doubt, nieve.
I don't need to go into a song and dance about what happened to a member of my family, but I was there, a witness and he got the bitter end of the stick until it was appealed...Needless to say he was later found innocent and sued the state!
My best wishes are for the Junta family...I only wish that Junta knew how many people support him and I'll definitely try to mail him a note if that's possible.
I don't need to go into a song and dance about what happened to a member of my family, but I was there, a witness and he got the bitter end of the stick until it was appealed...Needless to say he was later found innocent and sued the state!
My best wishes are for the Junta family...I only wish that Junta knew how many people support him and I'll definitely try to mail him a note if that's possible.
Just so you all know, Massachusetts has a very strict parole policy. The toughest in the nation. He will only be able to get out on BEST behavior in 6 years. No less.
And Catarina you are right. Everyone here has an opinion, and we can go round and round about it. I think its a damn shame he was convicted, and even more of a shame that he is serving time. Nobody wants to even consider the fact that the other guy was the one who started it. How many of you would just walk away if someone came up to you and punched you in the face???????? I find it hard to believe you'd be able to control yourself, and you may not realize how much "damage" you've done until its too late.
And Catarina you are right. Everyone here has an opinion, and we can go round and round about it. I think its a damn shame he was convicted, and even more of a shame that he is serving time. Nobody wants to even consider the fact that the other guy was the one who started it. How many of you would just walk away if someone came up to you and punched you in the face???????? I find it hard to believe you'd be able to control yourself, and you may not realize how much "damage" you've done until its too late.
Daniela, I think you are right- in my story I shared earlier- what if my husband would've killed that guy who broke in? Should he be prosecuted for protecting himself? Maybe the guy was concerned for his children's safety and just went into a rage???? Can we blame him for that?
Well Now... I'll be the first one to admit there are extreme problems when it come to our Justice system, innocent people get put in jail, guilty people get off scott free because of legal loopholes, happens everyday, you aren't the only ones it's happenned to.
BUT... the fact of the matter is that it's still, in my opinion, the best one in the world. People bitch moan and complain about it but who ever tries to do anything about it??? See that's where that "our system of government" comes into play. We have the ability to change things if enough people stopped complaining and got off their backsides and did something.
Just think, with the assets we have at our disposal, could you imagine what a difference we could make.. and I have to bring up Max's case here as a perfect example, what an awesome task it was to unite SO MANY people in defense of a wrong, and if it could be done with that, WHY doesn't anyone try it with our legal system... cuz it's easier to stand on the sidelines and complain with the attitude that you are only one person "what can I do". I certainly don't need to give anyone here a lesson in the system of government that protects us, but hey, if you're unsatified with it.. help change it, cuz if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
See, I've spent my entire life defending our government, here and abroad, and if things changed I would defend those too, cuz I live here, I earn a living here, and I'm free here, I owe her that much.
So, i've said this before and I will say it again, if you don't like it here (or anywhere for that matter), then bust you butt to change it, or go find somewhere that come close to your idea of how things should be. This isn't just for Americans, it for anyone.. Canadians, French, Isralees (sic), Palistineans or ANYONE. The Germans behind the wall did it..
While Im on a roll.... I've been on a jury, it wasn't a big murder case, but a man's freedom was at stake just the same. It wasn't easy, and yeah there was emotion involved, could you imagine if there wasn't, my god things would be black and white, no ifs ands or buts. Boom! preponderance of evidence... BANG Guilty.. see ya..
And yeah, he'll probably walk in a few years, not do the whole time, and that's okay, cuz in the eye's of the law he'll have paid his debt, weather I beleive that or not, like it or not, he has the right to be treated like he has. Which I might add, is about the only right he'll have left, and if states are given rights back to 'em, then guess what, we've no one to blame but ourselves, cuz it's easier to sit back and complain.
Ken
BUT... the fact of the matter is that it's still, in my opinion, the best one in the world. People bitch moan and complain about it but who ever tries to do anything about it??? See that's where that "our system of government" comes into play. We have the ability to change things if enough people stopped complaining and got off their backsides and did something.
Just think, with the assets we have at our disposal, could you imagine what a difference we could make.. and I have to bring up Max's case here as a perfect example, what an awesome task it was to unite SO MANY people in defense of a wrong, and if it could be done with that, WHY doesn't anyone try it with our legal system... cuz it's easier to stand on the sidelines and complain with the attitude that you are only one person "what can I do". I certainly don't need to give anyone here a lesson in the system of government that protects us, but hey, if you're unsatified with it.. help change it, cuz if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
See, I've spent my entire life defending our government, here and abroad, and if things changed I would defend those too, cuz I live here, I earn a living here, and I'm free here, I owe her that much.
So, i've said this before and I will say it again, if you don't like it here (or anywhere for that matter), then bust you butt to change it, or go find somewhere that come close to your idea of how things should be. This isn't just for Americans, it for anyone.. Canadians, French, Isralees (sic), Palistineans or ANYONE. The Germans behind the wall did it..
While Im on a roll.... I've been on a jury, it wasn't a big murder case, but a man's freedom was at stake just the same. It wasn't easy, and yeah there was emotion involved, could you imagine if there wasn't, my god things would be black and white, no ifs ands or buts. Boom! preponderance of evidence... BANG Guilty.. see ya..
And yeah, he'll probably walk in a few years, not do the whole time, and that's okay, cuz in the eye's of the law he'll have paid his debt, weather I beleive that or not, like it or not, he has the right to be treated like he has. Which I might add, is about the only right he'll have left, and if states are given rights back to 'em, then guess what, we've no one to blame but ourselves, cuz it's easier to sit back and complain.
Ken
Jocelyn, exactly. My hubby and I have actually discussed this before. I mean what IF, someone ever did something to break in our home or to harm one of our children. I am sorry to say, my husband would kill someone in an instant, and I don't mean that figuratively. I've heard people say " I'd kill them if they harmed my kids"......well my husband WOULD. And you know what, if it meant him going to prison then so be it. There are some things in life, like your own children, that you would kill for. And I dont' doubt for a second that my husband would not think twice if someone broke into our home!! Doesn't everyone here who have children, think the same way???? Would you let someone harm your babies and not fly off the handle??? Like Jocely said, her husband couldv'e killed the "intruder", and he probably would end up in prison himself even though the guy broke into THEIR home!!!!!!!!!!! What a justice system we have, huh????
I pity anyone who ever even tries to harm one of our children.
I pity anyone who ever even tries to harm one of our children.
I certainly didn't mean to give the impression in my last post that my husband is a psycho or anything!!!!!!!!! But when it comes to me or the kids, well he can have a "mean" side if someone is hurting us. But I guess probably everyone has that side if pushed too far. I just wanted to clarify. Thanks.
Not at all... I know I would do the same, and like you said, if that meant going to prison, then I'd go....
And I'd even bet that it wouldn't just be your kids either, If anyone going to hurt you.. he'd prolly do the same... as would I with Sandie
Ken
And I'd even bet that it wouldn't just be your kids either, If anyone going to hurt you.. he'd prolly do the same... as would I with Sandie
Ken
Daniela, I completely agree with you. 2 Days after the break in, Jake went out and bought a handgun..I have been taught to use it, and will if I ever have to. Many people today, who aren't pyscho or fanatics, have weapons or the mindset to protect even if it means killing someone else.
Ken- I dont disagree with you. I try to be as active in all causes I believe in- as active as possible. AND I know that I am not the only one who has been raped by the justice system. However, I am an example and I still suffer from the pain of it each day. I watch how so many people are hurt by our justice system and think that there has to be a change. BUT, I think that we have to protect ourselves. If I was being attacked by a 100 lb. woman, I would still feel the same way, same anger, same rage as if I was being attacked by a 150 lb. woman. So my response would be the same...Fight or flight instinct, survival of the fittest- whatever- you have to look out for #1!!!
Ken- I dont disagree with you. I try to be as active in all causes I believe in- as active as possible. AND I know that I am not the only one who has been raped by the justice system. However, I am an example and I still suffer from the pain of it each day. I watch how so many people are hurt by our justice system and think that there has to be a change. BUT, I think that we have to protect ourselves. If I was being attacked by a 100 lb. woman, I would still feel the same way, same anger, same rage as if I was being attacked by a 150 lb. woman. So my response would be the same...Fight or flight instinct, survival of the fittest- whatever- you have to look out for #1!!!
I came in on this late, but in the heat of the moment, I don't think with arms flailing this way and that, I'd just be trying to get the best of the person. God help them if someone was after my family in some way...(that's including my cats). I'd make sure they weren't moving.
My cousin did that and the guy had a gun...next thing he knows, is that the guy pulled the gun on him and now my cousin is dead. Nice, huh...just because he let the guy up.
There's an answer for ya.
Cat
My cousin did that and the guy had a gun...next thing he knows, is that the guy pulled the gun on him and now my cousin is dead. Nice, huh...just because he let the guy up.
There's an answer for ya.
Cat
Thanks Ken for not thinking I was psychotic for a second there!! Hahahahahaha. After I posted it, I thought "oh my, these people are going to think I am married to a neurotic killer or soemthing".
And yes, I am sure you and my husband would both kill for your wives as well.
Sandie and I are pretty lucky, eh?????
And yes, I am sure you and my husband would both kill for your wives as well.
Ok..now I'm not going to indulge in "what if's" or "maybe's". But I am going to speak as someone who has lived on the violent side of life and been in more than a few of these scraps.
There is a HUGE difference between defending your home and family and what went on here. The first fight fine..self defence. But from what I read he left then returned. Now correct me if I'm wrong,but I didn't hear about any threat to his kid other than the checking,etc on the ice which supposedly started this. Was the "coach" physically assaulting his son? I saw no mention of that. He could simply have waited for his kid in the parking lot and cooled off. Sounds to me like he went back to show how tough he was,fully prepared to enter into a fight again. That,I believe,would be the "intent" part.
Now one other point...unless you are a trained fighter you cannot punch someone hard enough with a bare fist to shatter their skull. You would break your own hand. That's why boxers tape their hands and still sometimes break bones. Karate fighters spend months building thick calluses on their knuckles and hands for the same reasons. That is why their hands are classed as a deadly weapon. The human skull is amazingly tough. From the descriptions I read; the coach's head was slammed repeatedly into the concrete. If we're talking flat floor from a position on his back that takes considerable power...more than a punch would impart. This leads me to believe his head was purposely grabbed and POUNDED on the cement. That's intent to kill or maim your opponent...nothing "accidental" about it.
I've always known that when you enter into a violent fight like that the possibility is there that someone is liable to be seriously hurt or killed. I accept that. This is why I will usually walk away. But I make the choice. If someday someone dies at my hands I will deserve whatever happens to me. I believe in the old Karate/Kung Fu teaching..
Run before fight,fight before maim,maim before kill, kill before God.
I would have charged this guy with 2nd degree MURDER.
There is a HUGE difference between defending your home and family and what went on here. The first fight fine..self defence. But from what I read he left then returned. Now correct me if I'm wrong,but I didn't hear about any threat to his kid other than the checking,etc on the ice which supposedly started this. Was the "coach" physically assaulting his son? I saw no mention of that. He could simply have waited for his kid in the parking lot and cooled off. Sounds to me like he went back to show how tough he was,fully prepared to enter into a fight again. That,I believe,would be the "intent" part.
Now one other point...unless you are a trained fighter you cannot punch someone hard enough with a bare fist to shatter their skull. You would break your own hand. That's why boxers tape their hands and still sometimes break bones. Karate fighters spend months building thick calluses on their knuckles and hands for the same reasons. That is why their hands are classed as a deadly weapon. The human skull is amazingly tough. From the descriptions I read; the coach's head was slammed repeatedly into the concrete. If we're talking flat floor from a position on his back that takes considerable power...more than a punch would impart. This leads me to believe his head was purposely grabbed and POUNDED on the cement. That's intent to kill or maim your opponent...nothing "accidental" about it.
I've always known that when you enter into a violent fight like that the possibility is there that someone is liable to be seriously hurt or killed. I accept that. This is why I will usually walk away. But I make the choice. If someday someone dies at my hands I will deserve whatever happens to me. I believe in the old Karate/Kung Fu teaching..
Run before fight,fight before maim,maim before kill, kill before God.
I would have charged this guy with 2nd degree MURDER.
You make very valid points here KF. I certainly can see your point. Not that I agree though. And like I posted earlier, he did not leave and come back He simply moved from the locker area to the foyer of the ice rink, and that is where the second fight occured. And also, he was not the first one to throw a punch.
I am not going to keep posting on this thread because its a moot point. He is in prison now, and he was judged by his "peers" so we have to accept that.
I appreciate all of the opinions here though, you all made good points. I personally still think that he did nothing wrong.
I am not going to keep posting on this thread because its a moot point. He is in prison now, and he was judged by his "peers" so we have to accept that.
I appreciate all of the opinions here though, you all made good points. I personally still think that he did nothing wrong.
I agree with Daniela and I doubt that would be called a jury of "anyone's" peers. The prosecutions star witnesses contradicted thmeselves countless times and the defense attorney even slammed them for it. but the jury was too stupid to take that into account.
The witnesses were totally confused and sounded like they were lying about it. They even made excuses...it was ridiculous.
It appears that there's quite a bit of people that are eager to say he murdered someone. Murder was not the case here....NOT in the least. When someone's is performing jury duty, I would hope that they take in account of all the facts that are presented. This jury was too swayed by emotion. It was pathetic yes, but as a juror, you must weigh the facts. The facts were not in my opinion weighed properly in this case. Anyone that actually saw that trial could see that.
The witnesses were totally confused and sounded like they were lying about it. They even made excuses...it was ridiculous.
It appears that there's quite a bit of people that are eager to say he murdered someone. Murder was not the case here....NOT in the least. When someone's is performing jury duty, I would hope that they take in account of all the facts that are presented. This jury was too swayed by emotion. It was pathetic yes, but as a juror, you must weigh the facts. The facts were not in my opinion weighed properly in this case. Anyone that actually saw that trial could see that.
Well, the last time I checked.. dying by someone elses hand is still murder
If I were to start slamming someones head into concrete you can bet my intent would be to kill that person. I think that if those of us who think he got what he deserved are just being emotional, than the same can be said for the other side.
This is from the Letters to the Editor and I quote:
On Jan11,the peewee team I coach attended a St, John Flames game at Harbour Station where I witnessed three acts of kindness and sportsmanship that I must pass on.
The first act occurred when,after a collision between a Flames player and a member of the Springfield(Mass)Falcons,a stick ended up going over the glass. It was caught by a genntleman who gave the stick to a young boy dressed in a Flames jersey as a keepsake.
At the next stoppage of play,despite the disapproval of all the fans,the referee retrieved the stick and took it to the Falcon's bench.
The second act occurred almost immediately after. Saint John's coach,Jim Playfair,instructed one of his bench staff to get a stick and with the unanimous approval of all 4600 plus fans had it delivered to the young fan.
At thge end of the game,the Falcons scored with one minute left prompting a mass exodus of the arena.Many fans didn't see the third act.
After the game was over and before the Springfield team left the ice,the player whose stick was retrieved by the ref,skated to the glass and gave the original stick back to the boy. I'm sure that both of these stickswill be saved for quite some time.
As someone who is involved in minor hockey as both a coach and an executive,I take my hat off to these three individuals. With all the controversy in te news about hockey lately,it's nice to see that some people still believe hockey,regardless of the level of skill,is a kid's game at heart. Unquote
Now don't you wish THESE were the type of people at that game?
On Jan11,the peewee team I coach attended a St, John Flames game at Harbour Station where I witnessed three acts of kindness and sportsmanship that I must pass on.
The first act occurred when,after a collision between a Flames player and a member of the Springfield(Mass)Falcons,a stick ended up going over the glass. It was caught by a genntleman who gave the stick to a young boy dressed in a Flames jersey as a keepsake.
At the next stoppage of play,despite the disapproval of all the fans,the referee retrieved the stick and took it to the Falcon's bench.
The second act occurred almost immediately after. Saint John's coach,Jim Playfair,instructed one of his bench staff to get a stick and with the unanimous approval of all 4600 plus fans had it delivered to the young fan.
At thge end of the game,the Falcons scored with one minute left prompting a mass exodus of the arena.Many fans didn't see the third act.
After the game was over and before the Springfield team left the ice,the player whose stick was retrieved by the ref,skated to the glass and gave the original stick back to the boy. I'm sure that both of these stickswill be saved for quite some time.
As someone who is involved in minor hockey as both a coach and an executive,I take my hat off to these three individuals. With all the controversy in te news about hockey lately,it's nice to see that some people still believe hockey,regardless of the level of skill,is a kid's game at heart. Unquote
Now don't you wish THESE were the type of people at that game?
