Another issue after kidney failure...

[rentuna]

Hi. So this is a new post for the issues we are facing right now. So we are doing IV fluid therapy and antibiotics and vitamine shots. Now we got this liquid food replacement thing... because he is still refusing food. I mean he is hungry LIKE REAL HUNGRY. He has an appetite, he comes ,looks at the food, waits for it and even cries for food (like all the time,in the past) BUT no matter, absolutely no matter what I put down for him, he will not eat it. At first, he ate a little, then he got better from the IV fluid therapy and was able to eat very well for an entire day. After that, everything went downhill. He is really hungry and waiting for food all day long, and when I offer him food ( I offered him multiple types of raw meat, multiple types of his prescription renal diet kibbles, multiple types of his prescription renal diet wet food, cooked meat, our standard usual cat food wet and kibble, and nothing. He gets happy for the food then he is chewing it slowly and like the little pieces are falling out of his mouth... the pieces he chewed. Or he's spitting it out but thing is, he won't eat the food because it falls out of his mouth after he chews on it. He drinks water normally. The vet checked his mouth today for ulcers,bad teeth but everything's OK. They doesn't understand and we either. He had this thing show up on the ultra sound scan in his intestines before he got diagnosed with kidney failure/insufficiency. But after, that thing disappeared (or can't be seen anymore I don't know, but it is not there now ) we have another ultrasound and blood works coming up in a week. I'm just really worried he will not make it like this. Is there anything maybe in a liquid form I could try give him next to this liquid we got for him from out vet ? I really do not want to lose him. They told us that kidney /body wise, he's doing better... so I had hopes he will be better ... thank you

 

[jencat]

Hi there. Did they try a B-12 injection, an appetite stimulant, or anti-nausea/ antacid medication? Sometimes those can help kitties with CKD.

 

[rentuna]

Hi there. Did they try a B-12 injection, an appetite stimulant, or anti-nausea/ antacid medication? Sometimes those can help kitties with CKD.

Hi! Thank you for your reply ! He just got today something with b-12 and this liquid, it says it's with chicken and it's to help cats eat again and also keep them fed in a way until they start eating again. As far as I know, he did not get anti nausea nor antacid because he's almost in stage 4 and they did not want to give too much meds at once and also because he got better from the IV fluid therapy and antibiotics and he got this renal care supplement. He doesn't vomit food nor blood and did not in the past either. He did vomit in the morning but just some transparent liquid like saliva. I told the vet about it but they told me that's not a big issue for now. Also he pees normally. He poops now rarely because he does not eat much unfortunately. There are a few bites..that he eats in the end but not much so he lost a lot of weight. He was doing so fine and putting on weight and everything... I don't understand what's happening and why is he not eating.. the vet told us she doesn't think he has nausea because then he would straightly refuse food and wouldn't cry for food with hunger. Also the vet said that it is acute renal failure but couldn't figure out what caused it because little Luke is very young approximately 2-3 years old, is not let outdoors because he doesn't have his front legs and the house is petproofed.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Some cats will act interested in food when they are nauseous, they just won't eat it, so I am not sure you can rule out nausea. But you can try baby food meat (Gerber Stage 2 or Beechnut) and see if he will eat that. A lot of cats will eat it when they refuse their own food. It is not nutritionally complete, but a few days of eating it won't hurt him while you sort out what other things to try like the anti-nausea meds and an appetite stimulant.

With acute kidney disease, it is crucial to act on it quickly as it is more serious than chronic, in terms of trying to treat it. I am giving you a link to Tanya's web site where she discusses acute kidney disease, what might cause it, what tests should be run, and how it is typically treated. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Acute Kidney Injury (AKI) (felinecrf.org)

 

[rentuna]

Some cats will act interested in food when they are nauseous, they just won't eat it, so I am not sure you can rule out nausea. But you can try baby food meat (Gerber Stage 2 or Beechnut) and see if he will eat that. A lot of cats will eat it when they refuse their own food. It is not nutritionally complete, but a few days of eating it won't hurt him while you sort out what other things to try like the anti-nausea meds and an appetite stimulant.

With acute kidney disease, it is crucial to act on it quickly as it is more serious than chronic, in terms of trying to treat it. I am giving you a link to Tanya's web site where she discusses acute kidney disease, what might cause it, what tests should be run, and how it is typically treated. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Acute Kidney Injury (AKI) (felinecrf.org)

Thank you kindly ! I am not sure how quickly did we found out, because we took our little boy to the vet when he started being picky again. He was a picky eater when he had urinary issues. But he recovered totally and even got neutered and everything was fine. Then he became picky again like one day to another, and then refusing. So it made me worried and ran to the vet.. well he is basically in stage 3 now.. with a creatinine level of 4.7. But the same day we got the test results and ultra sound again, he already got fluid therapy and antibiotics, pain killer and kidney support / renal supplement. He's still getting it. Vet told us that if he survives the first 3-4 days, then it is possible to somewhat make a recovery. But they did not find it out what caused it. We were thinking,that maybe it was again an urinary Tract infection, we tested the urine but it was alright. As of other health issues, he doesn't have, only that long past with urinary issues and crystalt, he got long and lots of meds for it because he basically was pulled back from death cuz it happened right after his front legs were amputated. Otherwise the only issue they found , was that thing in his intestines. But it miraculously disappeared by the next day. We have no idea what it was. It was quite big ( I was thinking he ate clumping sand and that was it or a hairball but idk) vet said it was quite big and smooth as she touched it because she could feel it,by next days ultra sound to Check on the thing, it disappeared AND the kidney failure appeared with swollen kidneys.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I thought maybe it is a kidney infection rather than bladder, as I believe that can cause acute kidney issues. I am not sure if an infection in the kidneys would show up on a urinalysis the same way as a bladder infection - you would think it would, but you might just double check with the vet. Antibiotics obviously would be given with a kidney infection, along with the other treatments you are giving him, but I do believe the antibiotics are given for a much longer period of time compared to a 'standard' UTI. You might ask the vet about that as well.

 

[rentuna]

Thank you a lot ! He's been on the antibiotics almost since then. He got it them for 2 days first and then a 2 day pause and since Monday he's on antibiotics again everyday. I feel like his kidneys are not as swollen anymore as they were last week. Vet said he's not as dehydrated anymore either and that his eyes look way better too. So I have hopes but this refusal with the food ,kills me. It is possible it is /was a kidney infection I guess if anything. Back when he had urinary issues, he developed kidney crystals and then he couldn't urinate. He got painkillers and antibiotic shots for a few days, around 3 days and he got better and eventually eliminated the crystals too and got well, he gained weight back and had very good appetite then we were able to neuter him and also after that he was alright. Though he got pneumonia after being neutered...maybe that can cause this too, I have no idea I don't even know why did he have so many problems,like he's an indoor cat with quality food and love and care. I just don't understand how and why all these happen

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Can you force feed him if he won't eat the baby food? Here is a thiread that tells how to do it, with the actual video on post #7.

Syringe Feeding Lucky Video/If your Cat is not eating

Hi, Some of you might already know that I am currently force-feeding Lucky since she is off food due to a blockage http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=227845. I took this opportunity to record a video (Scroll Down to the bottom of this post) and write this post hoping it might help...

thecatsite.com

BTW, what is the liquid food the Vet gave you to give him? I'm quite curious about that as I'm not familiar with anything like that.

 

[rentuna]

Can you force feed him if he won't eat the baby food? Here is a thiread that tells how to do it, with the actual video on post #7.

http://[URL]https://thecatsite.com/...lucky-video-if-your-cat-is-not-eating.227858/

[/URL]

BTW, what is the liquid food the Vet gave you to give him? I'm quite curious about that as I'm not familiar with anything like that.

This was exactly what I was thinking about... if he will keep refusing totally I will have to try to force feed him his heart and everything (except kidneys for now) are good and well. I really can't let him leave me.. thank you for the reference and the video in advance !
This liquid is with chicken and vitamins, I am not sure if it totally replaces food, but vet said it will help while trying to get him to eat. The name of it is Viyo recuperation for cats.
I want to ask our vet, if, next/after the actual fluid therapy would he be in need of also some renal fluids ? Like I'm really at a point where I don't care how, but I want to make him get better , no matter what it costs me. I also asked my vet about kidney transplant but was told that unfortunately in our country this is not an option :/

 

[FeebysOwner]

What are renal fluids? I don't think there are a lot of countries that really do kidney transplants in cats - it sure is not common in the US for sure.

 

[rentuna]

What are renal fluids? I don't think there are a lot of countries that really do kidney transplants in cats - it sure is not common in the US for sure.

I'm afraid that there really aren't many places that do it unfortunately
We found these renal fluids, they are also a liquid for IV and helps remove the build up of toxins(I read). We found one from Royal Canin renal liquid and one from a brand we do not know. So I will have to ask about these too from our vet if my little boy could benefit from this or not after the next blood work. ( I just hope that he doesn't have cancer too, I mean I did read a few stories, but I hope, if it was cancer, they would have discovered it already)

 

[Baz84]

Okay - this will not be helpful.

I had two cat issues
My cat with renal failure - Took him a few days but eventually would eat the C/D Cat Food...
My cat that ran away and was supremely emaciated with 70% body weight... would REFUSE all food. Lethargy, force feeding/drinking while he fights you... ONLY ate and I mean only would eat the Tiki Sardines. Refused all even the Royal Canin specialty food. Only issue is... I'm not sure about it's effects on Kidneys.

 

[rentuna]

Okay - this will not be helpful.

I had two cat issues
My cat with renal failure - Took him a few days but eventually would eat the C/D Cat Food...
My cat that ran away and was supremely emaciated with 70% body weight... would REFUSE all food. Lethargy, force feeding/drinking while he fights you... ONLY ate and I mean only would eat the Tiki Sardines. Refused all even the Royal Canin specialty food. Only issue is... I'm not sure about it's effects on Kidneys.

Mine is asking too for the "normal,standard" food he got before he became sick. I did not give him because I am afraid it will do something bad to his kidneys now I bought him royal canin veterinary diet kibble and wet too, hills same, wet and dry and another brand also wet and dry. I tried feeding him all of these and he barely touches them, and when he does, he's chewing it and then it's falling out of his mouth :/ I tried giving him raw and cooked food. At first he ate them well, then refused. (At first he ate the kibble too but then refused) so today and yesterday I tried hand feeding, yesterday kinda worked, today not at all. He just ate a little bit of the wet food I put out for him. Maybe you could try this viyo recovery drink too if your vet approves?

 

[rentuna]

So I think we just made a "discovery"!
I minced some cooked chicken breast, minced it totally ! And was offering him from my hand. He ate it !!!!!!! AND I also observed he might have issues in his mouth. Like he didn't have issues eating the pieces that were totally minced, but the few pieces that remained bigger, he chewed them but fell out of his mouth and he was also making a weird little noise while chewing. But he ate the ones totally minced to little micro pieces lol so I'm thinking of mincing kibble maybe ? Tomorrow morning I'm going to tell the vet that it really looks like, the issue is in his little mouth

 

[silent meowlook]

Is there a specialty hospital you can take your cat to. He really needs an internal medicine specialist.

They do kidney transplants at UC Davis in California. I knew a cat with a transplant. The cat did well. Although the cat that donated the kidney didn't get a great deal and I doubt he wanted to donate one of his kidneys. One of the things that you have to sign up for is to take the donor cat and give him a home. I personally don't think it is fair to take a cats kidney for another cat. That is just my opinion.

It is really hard to syringe feed a cat enough food to sustain them.

Try to get with a specialist but if you can't bring up the following to your vet:

Cerenia It is a medication for nausea and is also thought to have an anti inflammatory like effect.
Famotidine it is an injection you can give SQ with the fluids. It is an antacid. Cats with kidney disease often get acid reflux type of thing that will cause them to walk away from food.
Are you giving SQ fluids at home? Might be time to start if not. Just be careful to watch for fluid overload as it can lead to congestive heart failure. So it is always better to have them get smaller amounts more often as opposed to large amounts weekly or bi weekly.
His blood pressure should be checked as these cats often have high blood pressure that needs to be controlled before he feels better.
Do you know what the most recent blood work showed? I would assume his electrolytes are abnormal which can cause a him to feel horrible.
Sometimes these cats can become so acidotic that they will form ulcers. There is medication to help that called Carafate and it can be given as a slurry mixed with water and syringed. It can make their mouth and gut feel better.


I do hope your cat is feeling better and eating soon.

I didn't completely read everything on this thread slowly, so if I have misinterpreted some things, I apologize.

 

[rentuna]

Is there a specialty hospital you can take your cat to. He really needs an internal medicine specialist.

They do kidney transplants at UC Davis in California. I knew a cat with a transplant. The cat did well. Although the cat that donated the kidney didn't get a great deal and I doubt he wanted to donate one of his kidneys. One of the things that you have to sign up for is to take the donor cat and give him a home. I personally don't think it is fair to take a cats kidney for another cat. That is just my opinion.

It is really hard to syringe feed a cat enough food to sustain them.

Try to get with a specialist but if you can't bring up the following to your vet:

Cerenia It is a medication for nausea and is also thought to have an anti inflammatory like effect.
Famotidine it is an injection you can give SQ with the fluids. It is an antacid. Cats with kidney disease often get acid reflux type of thing that will cause them to walk away from food.
Are you giving SQ fluids at home? Might be time to start if not. Just be careful to watch for fluid overload as it can lead to congestive heart failure. So it is always better to have them get smaller amounts more often as opposed to large amounts weekly or bi weekly.
His blood pressure should be checked as these cats often have high blood pressure that needs to be controlled before he feels better.
Do you know what the most recent blood work showed? I would assume his electrolytes are abnormal which can cause a him to feel horrible.
Sometimes these cats can become so acidotic that they will form ulcers. There is medication to help that called Carafate and it can be given as a slurry mixed with water and syringed. It can make their mouth and gut feel better.


I do hope your cat is feeling better and eating soon.

I didn't completely read everything on this thread slowly, so if I have misinterpreted some things, I apologize.

Hi. Thank you for your reply. I live in the EU, in Romania, in my city I have limited opportunity. Hungary is out of question, I already talked to a big clinic and they refused to help.. we gave him at home but he did not like it so we are bringing him every day, 2 times a day to our vet ( which is luckily 5 mins from our house)
Today the vet told us that it indeed is nausea after checking his mouth and throat, but he is not able to take more meds at this moment except the ones he's already taking. Things like his blood pressure were and are ok luckily,for now. I have the blood work results, BUN ,CREA and PHOS are big. Everything else is OK. They did urinalysis and that came back ok too. Ultrasound shows his kidneys enlarged. BUN is bigger than 140, CREA is 4,79 and PHOS is 14.0 LIPA is 28. Our next blood work is sometime next week if he makes it... because to be honest, he doesn't feel good now. He struggles to eat, now he is able to lick a little wet food if I mix it with water and he started to hide..... but his eyes looks good, vet said. He is not dehydrated anymore either for now and his reflexes are okayish too so I don't know..

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Is he still urinating? Is he drinking the Viyo? Is he still eating the very small minced pieces of food you are giving him? Or have you tried syringe feeding him anything? Did you read the link FeebysOwner referenced above regarding Acute Kidney Failure? It states that enlarged kidneys probably mean kidney stones, and for those the cat needs to be on IV fluids in hospital to try to flush them out. For some reason I thought he WAS in the hospital until your comment above where you said you take him in for fluids twice a day. Those, I'm guessing are sub-q fluids vs IV fluids. Better than nothing, but I always heard with ACUTE kidney issues IV was better.

Anyway, you might read that link. VERY informative and would give you lots of info to ask your Vet about.

Poor little guy. He's certainly had his share of bad luck

 

[rentuna]

Is he still urinating? Is he drinking the Viyo? Is he still eating the very small minced pieces of food you are giving him? Or have you tried syringe feeding him anything? Did you read the link FeebysOwner referenced above regarding Acute Kidney Failure? It states that enlarged kidneys probably mean kidney stones, and for those the cat needs to be on IV fluids in hospital to try to flush them out. For some reason I thought he WAS in the hospital until your comment above where you said you take him in for fluids twice a day. Those, I'm guessing are sub-q fluids vs IV fluids. Better than nothing, but I always heard with ACUTE kidney issues IV was better.

Anyway, you might read that link. VERY informative and would give you lots of info to ask your Vet about. He is getting the viyo with a sirynge 30ml a day.
The vet did the tests but did not find stones nor crystals

Poor little guy. He's certainly had his share of bad luck

I read the link :/ he is urinating. He drinks and eats the little pieces of food. For now I mix his food with water so it's easier for him to eat /swallow and doesn't have to chew. I didn't let him hospitalized because it was very critical he survives..so I wanted him at home. He gets the IV ringers, antibiotics, vitamin/ b shots and renal supplement and the viyo.
He really had bad luck...like he was hit by the tram,got his front legs amputated, then nobody wanted to adopt him except me and my partner. Then while on recovery he developed the urinary issues with the crystals and blockage. That was a long route of treatments and veterinary diet constantly then he recovered and got well,neutered, put on weight, good appetite, good peepee...and then suddenly one day to another, this...

 

[rentuna]

Hi guys I am HAPPY to come here to SAY that the vet we were at...wanted to euthanize him after his crea went up to 8.56. It was a very hard time for me and for my husband, we cried a lot but didn't give up. We seen on Luke that he simply wants to live and he's the bravest. We searched for a big vet clinic,took him there which already was hard cuz he was close to coma, he was very weak and vomiting. They told us we need a miracle and they'll try everything they can. We left Luke there for treatment and real IV !! That day his crea was 10. We visited him everyday since. Yesterday the clinic was waiting for us to tell us the good news. His crea went down to 2.9!!!!! He had to get insulin and other stuff too when we took him to the clinic. We couldn't believe it. They told us, he is a real miracle , they seen at him that he's a warrior and doesn't want to give up! He still needs a few more days of treatment at the clinic and then he can come home !!!!!! I can't believe it,really. We are so happy I can't tell in words and thank you all for your time and comments !!! You are amazing!

 

[rentuna]

we were so afraid of losing him, this is him at the clinic, they kept in touch with us everyday, and took photos and videos for us every night of Luke!!!!