Another Grain-Free Warning

[IndyJones]

Feed a homemade nutritionally adequate diet of just meat and vitamins, and you're set.

Unfortunately this just isn't an option for everyone. Some people barely have enough time to cook for themselves or have a disability that may limit what they are able to do.

Raw food is a whole other debate too. Some people don't like the idea of handling raw meat because of salmonella and other foodborn illnesses. If they have a supreessed immune system it may not be an option.

I really don't think there is a one size fits all option for feeding animals, everyone has a different lifestyle. And like us, all cats dogs or whatever animals you have are individuals with different needs.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Haven't "they" (I don't know where I saw it) found that it's something about what they replace the grains with (peas, potatoes) that cause improper absorption or something to that effect of taurine? If the cat food is "grain free" meaning protein from animal only it should not be an issue. BUT with the cat food (as with dog), they simply replace the grains with a different plant protein. Grain free is NOT better, what is better is no or very low plant content. Cats may be carnivores but they did consume plants in the from of stomach content from other animals and even by eating grasses and such, so some plant in the foods (IMO) is not the end of the world, I mean, most of us even use pumpkin for digestive issues. I do believe that grain free CAN be dangerous, I think the only reason it does not affect cats quite as much is because they add extra taurine to cat food, but who's to say that some cats aren't more affected by the substitute plant protein than others, causing the cardiomyopathy. My cat grew up on grain free, my FIRST cat to ever eat it....GUESS WHAT! He died from cardiomyopathy! I'm not saying for sure it was the food, but it certainly opened my eyes. My cats no longer eat "grain free" it's a marketing gimmick. They get wet food with no plant content and I am currently looking into which kibble I want to get, they currently eat a prescription food that is supposed to help with their immune system, but their health seems stable now, so I want a better food (not so high in carbs), but I'll be staying clear of "grain free" if it simply replaces the grains with legumes.

Totally agree here. I guess I just wasn't detailed enough when I said that cats should get their protein from meat not grains. I should have said cats should get their protein from meat, not CARBS. Mea culpa. And I guess I haven't looked at cat food lately, I didn't realize they were now using legumes in it. Good grief, what will they do next !

 

[JamesCalifornia]

~ I have seen articles stating the problem with ingredients is that that prevent absorbing certain nutrients . We will see ...

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

Just meat and vitamins wouldn't be complete. You also need organs, bones, or a source of calcium, and essential minerals.

I said "nutritionally adequate" for a reason. Whether you're making your own concoction or using a premix, this is a pretty obvious statement.

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

Unfortunately this just isn't an option for everyone. Some people barely have enough time to cook for themselves or have a disability that may limit what they are able to do.

Raw food is a whole other debate too. Some people don't like the idea of handling raw meat because of salmonella and other foodborn illnesses. If they have a supreessed immune system it may not be an option.

I really don't think there is a one size fits all option for feeding animals, everyone has a different lifestyle. And like us, all cats dogs or whatever animals you have are individuals with different needs.

Uh; I'm not sure someone who doesn't even have the time to say, boil chicken, shred it, and even just use a premix should.. Have high energy pets like cats? Not trying to be insulting, but cats are high energy JUST like dogs and require quite a bit of physical work contrary to what pop media wants to say.

 

[Azazel]

I said "nutritionally adequate" for a reason. Whether you're making your own concoction or using a premix, this is a pretty obvious statement.

Right, but it’s not nutritionally adequate to just have meat and vitamins. So I wanted to clarify in case someone reads your post and thinks that they can just feed their cats meat and vitamins and that would be okay.

 

[kittenmittens84]

Uh; I'm not sure someone who doesn't even have the time to say, boil chicken, shred it, and even just use a premix should.. Have high energy pets like cats? Not trying to be insulting, but cats are high energy JUST like dogs and require quite a bit of physical work contrary to what pop media wants to say.

Isn’t the high energy part exactly a reason why it would be difficult for someone to make their own cat food? I can’t play with the cat and prep chicken at the same time!

I get that people just want the best for their cats and that includes finding the best diet they can but it really shouldn’t be surprising that some people need to rely on commercial cat food.

I’m both a PhD student and a vegetarian, if commercial cat food wasn’t available I wouldn’t own a cat

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

Isn’t the high energy part exactly a reason why it would be difficult for someone to make their own cat food? I can’t play with the cat and prep chicken at the same time!

I get that people just want the best for their cats and that includes finding the best diet they can but it really shouldn’t be surprising that some people need to rely on commercial cat food.

I’m both a PhD student and a vegetarian, if commercial cat food wasn’t available I wouldn’t own a cat

Cats require about only 30 minutes for play sessions if you're doing them correctly. There are quite a few vegetarians and vegans who prepare a homemade diet just fine, your dietary hangups shouldn't affect your pets. In fact, I was a vegetarian for the majority of taking care of specter's food-needs; my animals come before my morals and opinions. I think this is actually.. Quite a moral way to behave.

 

[JamesCalifornia]

~ Speaking of horses - we don't want to be riding on one too high lest we may fall off !

 

[Azazel]

Isn’t the high energy part exactly a reason why it would be difficult for someone to make their own cat food? I can’t play with the cat and prep chicken at the same time!

I get that people just want the best for their cats and that includes finding the best diet they can but it really shouldn’t be surprising that some people need to rely on commercial cat food.

I’m both a PhD student and a vegetarian, if commercial cat food wasn’t available I wouldn’t own a cat

I don’t get it... you’re browsing online forums but you’re so busy you only have time to take care of either your cat’s energy or nutrition needs? Not both?

I get if people don’t want to make their own cat food. I really don’t think we should be guilt tripping people about it, but some of these do sound like pretty funny excuses.

I do agree that we should be able to rely on commercial cat food, it’s just that once you start doing research into it, you realize that it’s really actually hard to rely on it, especially when regulatory bodies are not always acting in the consumer’s best interest.

I don’t think that SpecterOhPossum is trying to be on a high horse. It took most of us who turned to homemade food a while to work up the guts to make the leap. But after we do make the leap we often realize how easy it is and how great the health benefits are, so when we see a thread about how insane the pet feed industry is, we want to share that new knowledge with people.

 

[kittenmittens84]

I don’t get it... you’re browsing online forums but you’re so busy you only have time to take care of either your cat’s energy or nutrition needs? Not both?

I get if people don’t want to make their own cat food. I really don’t think we should be guilt tripping people about it, but some of these do sound like pretty funny excuses.

I do agree that we should be able to rely on commercial cat food, it’s just that once you start doing research into it, you realize that it’s really actually hard to rely on it, especially when regulatory bodies are not always acting in the consumer’s best interest.

I don’t think that SpecterOhPossum is trying to be on a high horse. It took most of us who turned to homemade food a while to work up the guts to make the leap. But after we do make the leap we often realize how easy it is and how great the health benefits are, so when we see a thread about how insane the pet feed industry is, we want to share that new knowledge with people.

Yeah surprisingly I can’t work 100% of the time, I do procrastinate sometimes

I’m really not trying to be contrarian here but practically speaking, the vast majority of pet owners are not going to be making their own cat food and that’s why we need a system that consumers and cat owners can trust to produce food that’s 1. safe and 2. healthy for cats specifically and 3. evidence based. It frustrates me that that seems so far off, but it also frustrates me that in the past when I’ve looked into homemade or raw food for my IBS kitty I’ve gotten similar responses basically to the tune of no excuse is a good excuse and if you actually loved your cat you’d be doing this already. Modern conveniences like pet food and cat litter allow people who wouldn’t otherwise own pets to do so and I think that’s great, as long as those modern conveniences are also reasonably safe and healthy.

SpecterOhPossum I don’t impose my morals on my cats, they obviously aren’t vegetarians. But I’m uncomfortable touching or preparing meat.

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

Thank you A Azazel .

No one is attempting to be demeaning or whatever when they speak about a homemade or even partial homemade diet, my interest is solely on the animal in question; and therefore debunking the ideas/excuses regarding this - which are preventing people from delving into this - is an important task. Similar to the excuses around veganism.
I will detail this point because unless I go into detail, I don't come across well.

1 "I don't have enough time"
If you have the time to watch a tv show; browse the web (which is what you're doing right now; via reading this.) you have the time to spend 2 hours max on a week or more worth of your cats food. For that matter, you have the same time to make your own food. Don't over complicate things. Preparation is key.
2 "I don't have the money"
You don't have to do a fancy homemade diet. A diet of a premix and just chicken can work. You don't need to buy lamb meat topped with gold, you don't have to buy the top very best premix or minerals yourself. There are plenty of commercial premixes you simply weigh and add to cooked or raw meat corresponding with the weight of the powder. (1lb meat + 32g u-stew, for example.) Kitchen scales are pretty cheap, you don't need even fancy containers to store the batches in. Freezer ziplocs work. Premixes SEEM expensive but pay attention to how much food they create. U-stew is around 32$...........But it makes 15lbs of food. Not actually expensive when you put two-and-two together.
3 "I don't want to do (insert fad) diet"
And you don't have to. You don't have to feed raw; you can do cooked. You don't have to manually make it into a mush if your cat likes a pate, you can blend it. Again, don't over complicate.

K kittenmittens84 That was my point. But echoing my last line above this, you don't necessarily have to.

 

[Azazel]

Yeah surprisingly I can’t work 100% of the time, I do procrastinate sometimes

Why not just say "I don't want to spend my time making cat food" rather than "I don't have any time at all to make cat food." It's really not that time-consuming. The latter comes off as a bit of an "excuse" only because people usually find time for things that they really want to do.

I’m really not trying to be contrarian here but practically speaking, the vast majority of pet owners are not going to be making their own cat food and that’s why we need a system that consumers and cat owners can trust to produce food that’s 1. safe and 2. healthy for cats specifically and 3. evidence based.

You're not being contrarian. As I said, I agree with all of the above things (except I shudder at the catch phrase "evidence-based"). But unfortunately we live in a world where the pet feed industry does not offer these things and likely will not in the near future. So for those who are really bothered by this, I see no problem with SpecterOhPossum pointing out an alternative.

It frustrates me that that seems so far off, but it also frustrates me that in the past when I’ve looked into homemade or raw food for my IBS kitty I’ve gotten similar responses basically to the tune of no excuse is a good excuse and if you actually loved your cat you’d be doing this already. Modern conveniences like pet food and cat litter allow people who wouldn’t otherwise own pets to do so and I think that’s great, as long as those modern conveniences are also reasonably safe and healthy.

I'm not making any claims about how much you love your cat. You just have to decide for yourself whether you're fed up with putting your trust into an industry that really doesn't care about your cat enough to try and make your own food. You may have reasons for not doing it and you don't have to justify yourself to anyone. I'm just pointing out that some of the reasons that people feel that they need to publicly voice on an online forum seem like silly excuses, that's all.

As a side note - I realize you are vegetarian, but you really also gotta consider that you are taking care of a creature whose life literally revolves around fresh meat and whose entire physiology is built for hunting prey and tearing into fresh meat. It's the center of their world. Just food for thought.


To tie this back to the original point of the thread - I spent years taking care of sick cats, trying new foods, doing my research, trying to figure out what the best possible "healthy" products out there are. I realized that the pet feed industry is incredibly convoluted with greed and politics. It's extremely difficult to trust the manufacturers or regulating bodies. When I see posts like this about something in pet food killing animals but we really have no idea why and then the FDA is selectively investigating certain brands or not releasing full information to consumers about the issues it just reinforces to me why I switched to relying on myself rather than on these big companies for feeding my cats. Yes, we SHOULD have healthy and reliable pet food options. We unfortunately DON'T.

 

[kittenmittens84]

“Evidence-based” meaning I’m frequently frustrated at the lack of good scientific research about cat nutrition and really cats in general that’s not tainted in some way by the bias of either the associations of the researchers or where the money for the research comes from.

 

[Azazel]

“Evidence-based” meaning I’m frequently frustrated at the lack of good scientific research about cat nutrition and really cats in general that’s not tainted in some way by the bias of either the associations of the researchers or where the money for the research comes from.

I get it. I'm also frustrated by this. I just have a personal aversion to that phrase (not because of you).

 

[AbbysMom]

Ok, can we all please take a step back here for a minute? We are starting to get too personal about how we care for our cats when you don’t know the cat in question. What works for one doesn’t work for another and we ALL need to keep that in mind.
if things continue to get off-topic and personal the thread will be closed and some of you could be hearing from us.

 

[Krienze]

I've been feeding my cats 4health grain free for awhile now and have never had any issues. Actually, my cat Isabel, had a serious skin condition that seemed to clear up after switching her to grain free. However this was almost six years ago, and it was harder to find grain free foods than it is now. I wonder, and I apologize if I sound uneducated here, but is it the newer brands that seem to be the biggest issue? I never had a problem with 4health and my cats and dogs seem to thrive on it.

 

[Willow's Mom]

I was really hoping this wouldn't spread to cats. The way it is being reported is even confusing my 85 year old mother, and she's had dogs all her life and is pretty sharp when it comes to nutrition.

Cats are obligate carnivores. They can't digest grains. Yes, I'm always telling Willow that when she grabs a bite of my sandwich and she still doesn't listen, but that's pica or leftover PTSD from when she was starving.

Dogs are non-obligate carnivores. They don't need grains. Nothing bad will happen if you don't feed your dog grains.

My understanding of what we actually know about the connection between DCM and grain-free dog foods is that the grains are replaced with other carbohydrates (potatoes, field peas, etc.) that are necessary for the manufacture of the dog food, but that these non-meat ingredients also contain protein content that humans (and bunnies, guinea pigs, horsies, lambies, etc.) can absorb but dogs, with their shorter digestive systems, simply can't.

Laurel the dog will be thrilled when I know enough about this to let her have more of her favourite vegetables and grains for treats but cats don't need that stuff. They may be cute and soft and cuddly and smell just like heaven, but they are still bloodthirsty killers. The only vegan cats that could ever exist are imaginary cats and dead cats.

 

[Kflowers]

UC Davis further statement on the paper they presented about the problems with grain free food. Part is a failure to disclose possible influences. The article is an interesting read.

AJF ( Andrea Fascetti, one of the corresponding authors of the paper)
Long paragraph on funding, here's a bit of it -


“AJF is the Scientific Director and JY is the Technical Director of the Amino Acid Laboratory at the University of California, Davis (UCD) that provides amino acid analysis on a fee for service basis. AJF received remuneration for lectures or as an advisor on behalf of Nestlé Purina PetCare, Mars Petcare, Synergy Food Ingredients, the Mark Morris and Pet Food Institutes. AJF received funding from Nutro for graduate student training. A resident on the Nutrition Service, mentored in part by AJF, received funds from the Hill’s Pet Nutrition Resident Clinical Study Grants program, matched by the Center for Companion Animal Health, School of Veterinary Medicine at UCD."

Scientific Publication Questions UC Davis DCM Paper

Researchers from UC Davis are facing an embarrassing

truthaboutpetfood.com

 

[JamesCalifornia]

~ I am glad I was already coming here when this grain-free thing started. I do not use it . Pea protein , carrots , "garden greens" .. ? Does not sound like kittycat foodstuff .
I look for meat as first ingredient - some corn is ok. Sadly it may turn out the cheap corn ingredient food may be safer than the expensive grain free ! Another fiasco to dupe pet lovers ...