Amy has just called me into the Nesting Box!!

[bundylee]

Source: The Collins English Dictionary Â[emoji]169[/emoji] 1998 HarperCollins Publishers
flippant [flpnt]
adj.
1. marked by inappropriate levity; frivolous or offhand.
2. impertinent; saucy.
3. Obsolete. talkative or nimble.
[perhaps from {flip}]

 

[airprincess]

I hate to see such bickering over a subject that I'm sure we're all in agreement on.

Responsible pet owners spay and neuter their animals. Period.

Bundy, I'm sure you feel attacked, and I'm sorry about that, but this is a hot button, and the issue had to be addressed. It wasn't personal. If anyone else on the board had been in the same situation, the exact same questions would have been asked. You were offended, and responded in a sarcastic way, which just fueled the fire. There's no way in good conscience a comment like that could be allowed to go unchallenged on a board that serves to promote cat welfare.

We have a wonderful community here at TCS. The lounge is a fun place where we all chitchat and discuss our daily lives. That's great, but TCS was created to educate pet owners. What if someone who english isn't their first lauguage had read your remark and took it seriously? And if it was left unchallenged they might get the impression that it's ok to let your pet mate over and over.

There are many people here who rescue animals, who put thier blood sweat and tears in cleaning up the messes left by irresponsible pet owners, and that remark was offensive to those who's only concern was to make sure you knew the responsible thing was to spay Amy. I know you were reacting out of anger because you felt targeted and offended. It wasn't personal and again I re-iterate that the same query would have been made to ANYONE who's animal had gotten pregnaut for a second time.

 

[hissy]

Thank you Colby,

You nailed it right on the head.

 

[whisker's mom]

I just want to put my 2 cents in here.....

I am in no way defending what was said however......

I just think it could have been handled in a more 'private' way like via a PM. What is definately a misunderstanding has taken a road of it's own now and many are involved. A post can be corrected in a matter of seconds when the person is advised. Once everyone gets involves, it's harder to mend fences.

I too, hate bickering. I want to see everyone get along.

There must be different ways of handling tough situations like this......isn't there?????

 

[kiwideus]

I agree with Ghys, I felt uncomfortable with the argument and I wanted to say something but I was afraid of getting my head bit off, that this should be put in PM because people could get put off coming in here if people argue.

*holding onto head*

 

[airprincess]

Originally posted by Bundylee
I would appreciated it if this thread does not get deleted as I do believe in freedom of speech.

There was never a doubt that your post and this thread would stay up.

I'm a bit confused by this remark because while we don't have a lot of posts that break out into arguments, and we (the mods)don't take down the ones that do, unless they are caught in a vicious cycle that only cause more harm than good and continue to degenerate.

When something is removed from the board, be it an off color joke or whatever, it's because the mods have recieved complaints, not because we have personally decided we don't like it. In fact we don't always even know it's there, until we are hit up with PMs and emails from people who are up in arms over it. It's a hard line to walk, trying to judge what is acceptable and what is not, when we have such a diverse group of people who often are on either end of the spectrum.

I personally am not easily offended at all, but I can't go by my own standards because there are many folks here who's tolerance isn't as deep. That's fine, it's just hard to strike a balance and you can't make everyone happy. We tend to lean a bit more conservative just because this place is billed as a family site.

I just want to make sure that you know Leslie, that your thoughts, opinion and posts will stay up. They won't be edited or deleted because someone doesn't personally agree with them. That's not how we work. As long as you've been a member here, I can't think of an instance where that hasn't been the case. If I'm wrong, please let me know. You may have heard that we don't allow freedom of speech or conflicting opinions, but have you actually experienced that first hand?

 

[hissy]

Whiskers Mom,

If no one had challenged Bundylee's comment that she made here, and just let it hang out here, that would of been the wrong message from this board.

Say someone surfing into this thread for the first time has a kitty at home she is unsure of getting her spayed or not. So she looks for a cat board, comes in here, reads this, and no one challenges the remark. This person could say to herself, "Wow! I found a cat welfare board where someone thinks it is cool to let a cat mate. I am not going to get my kitty spayed after all."

Maybe that sounds extreme to you, but it could happen and if ANYONE had made a remark such as Leslie did in a post, it would of been challenged by me or anyone else who works with cats in distress, or rescues or even breeds ethically.

Had I taken it to PM's the remark would of stayed out here doing more damage then good.

The sad part about this, is Leslie is going to get her cat spayed, but fueled on by anger she became more and more sarcastic and bitter and that was unfortuanate. But again, it was the wrong remark to put out there on a cat welfare board.

And for the record Leslie, I was not picking on you, I was trying to get you to retract your statement and explain that you are going to have Amy spayed soon.

 

[bundylee]

Please Note!

Where my silly comments were I have this in place so that any one that stumbles across my comments won't let their kitty breed because of it!!!

MY COMMENTS IN THIS POST WERE SARCASTIC AND/OR FLIPPANT ONLY AND NOT MY VIEWS ON ANIMAL WELFARE. THEY HAVE BEEN TAKEN COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT AND HAVE NOW CAUSED A GREAT ARGUMENT!!! TO ANYONE READING THIS THAT DOES NOT KNOW ME, DO NOT THINK I ENDORSE THE BREEDING OF FERALS AND DOMESTICS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!

Also I would have removed the post if asked!!!

I am close to getting put off coming in here myself!

And yes I have had posts edited or deleted because someone doesn't personally agree with them!

For those of you that think I am the cat woman from hell and don't have a responsible bone in my body you should have taken it up with me in private not on a post that was just to announce the arrival of kittens which by the way has been totally destroyed and spoiled! If this is the case then there should be no posts about any kittens just in case someone thinks they should let their cat have them! So I call for a ban of all kitten posts and kitten pictures!!!

 

[whisker's mom]

Mary Anne,

That's what I meant. I am just saying that her remark could have been removed had she been asked to remove it (or rectify it) and then, IF she refused and left it there, then I would understand....

For sure, someone new reading that would think many things but, if it's no longer there....then the challenge is gone also.

I don't know....it just makes me sad when something like this happens. Especially if it was unintentional.

 

[hissy]

Ghyslaine,

Being a moderator is not a nice job sometimes, Leslie chose to put an inappropriate remark into a nice thread and it erupted. This is a hot button for me and for many others. Like declawing threads, this board stands behind spaying and neutering all animals and letting them keep their claws as God intended them to do. And just because a mod pm's someone and asks them to remove something, does not mean that this happens. We do not indiscrimantely go in and remove posts because we do not agree with them. We get complaints all the time from people who do not like this or that.

No one thinks Leslie is the cat woman from hell. I just reacted seeing her comment out there like that. Had you, or Kelleye or anyone else made such a remark, I would of challenged it as well. Publicly not privately, had it been a slam against someone on the board, it would of been removed and the person who made it Pm'd or warned by email. But this was a cat issue and as kitten season is almost upon us most of us who do rescue know what damage this type of thinking can do on the issue.

 

[lorie d.]

I don't want to be a part of this discussion but I just want to say BundyLee, I hope you will continue to stay with us and will continue posting here.

 

[bundylee]

Leslie chose to put an inappropriate remark into a nice thread and it erupted

I'm sorry but please excuse me if I am wrong here!!! But I wasn't the one that chose to do anything to my (NICE) thread!!!! I simply responded inappropriately to the suggestions made by Sandie and dtolle regarding my failure to do the right thing!

I felt I was being judged and attacked and the following issues and attacks raised were inappropriate to what this thread was originally about! I don't wish to be lectured on air so to speak, if someone/anyone has issues with me then please do so privately! I put in a great deal of effort into being a good member of this forum and don't want to be publicly torn down because of the feral/stray issue which I am suddenly such a huge part of! I don't wish to be spoken to that way nor do I wish to have people tell me off, I invite them to come and take Amy and the kittens off my hands because they will certainly do a far better job of it than I will/can. I will take her and the kittens to the vet that took the last kittens in the morning and they can deal with them! Further more I do not wish to ever be involved in that neck of the woods again! If I am not able to satisfy the members concerns on this forum then there is no way I can satisfy a strays needs!

 

[whisker's mom]

Oh my....I am saddly bowing out of here gracefully. I don't think there is anything else I can say. Or should say....

I hope there is a happy ending here.

 

[dtolle]

I for one was not picking on you. No matter who would have posted about this ,I would have said the same thing.." please spay or neuter your cat". That is what TCS promotes, cat welfare and well being.

I did in no way try to insult or hurt your feelings. I was just voicing my opinion that after Amy weans her litter perhaps you should get her spayed ASAP before she gets out again. We are here to educate, and I'm sorry if you feel as though you are above education, but I think everyone here can learn something from someone else.

We have many members, especially Hissy, who deal daily w/ unwanted, and abandoned kittens. She sees the pain and torture, and heartache that this causes. If more people would spay/neuter we would have less of a cat population problem. I read your post a while back when Amy got out and mated again, and I should have posted my thoughts then. I'm sorry I didn't, but after reading all the excitement about the new kittens arriving, I thought it would be appropriate to voice my opinion now.

I'm sure your remarks are from anger and frustration at all of us who promote spay/neuter, and I'm sorry you feel that way. You were not being attacked, but it is the job of TCS to educate, and that is not aimed at just certain people. Its for everyone.

Just for the record, I know you made a comment about mods not deleting this. We as mods don't delete posts just because we feel like it. Its only done if its completely out of hand and another member has complained. When we are bombarded w/ PM's and emails that something is offensive then we discuss removing it.

Oh, and Whiskers mom, if I had discussed this in a PM w/ Bundlyee, it would have let her know about how I felt, but not everyone would be able to read it and learn. I posted it on the board so everyone could read it. And perhaps someone else could get educated about such an important topic as spaying and neutering.

I'm done.

 

[whisker's mom]

Okay....I do have one last thing to say as comments are being directed at me.

All I meant to say is this: Would it not have been more appropriate to send a PM/email to Bundy asking her to delete her post?

I understand the educating part here, honestly, I do.

I just feel that had Bundy been given the option to delete her own post, she would have done so. Any mature member here knows when they've made a remark that they perhaps should not have.

I still think she would have done the right thing...

I know I would appreciate being given the chance to correct my mistake on my own before it gets out of hand.

 

[valanhb]

I'm not really sure what I can say with all this, but I feel I need to say something.

Leslie, I feel confident that no one had the intention of attacking you personally with asking about Amy being spayed after this litter. It was done in the same manner that Hissy and I raised the question about Tatyana being supervised while playing with a plastic bag. While I had no doubt that you wouldn't put Tat in a situation where she could be hurt with a bag, I posted the reply I did so no one else would get the wrong impression. We get new members every day, and not all of them were around when you posted your thread about how distraught you were when you found out Amy had escaped before you had a chance to spay her and she came back pregnant, and your plans to get her spayed after this litter is weaned. Heck, I'm sure some of the members who were around then don't remember it - we have a lot of threads and it's nearly impossible to read them all, let alone remember each one!

Please don't leave over this...take a step back and evaluate really what was said and the intentions behind it. Many of us know you here, but there are equal numbers of new or infrequent or returning members who don't know you personally, your history, your feeling on spaying Amy, etc. I personally love hearing updates, and seeing the kits grow up, and I know many of us are excited to share this with you. I will be equally happy to hear that the kittens have found new forever homes (when the time comes), have been spayed and neutered, and that Amy has also been spayed. If nothing else, start a new thread about the kits and let this one die a natural death, falling off the boards.

 

[russian blue]

I just read this thread and debated whether or not to post.

I think the problem is the fact that some people know Bundy's humour and background and other's do not. For the regulars, you will know that Bundy felt sick that Amy got out and became pregnant (a previous post). She had every intent to get her spayed. But, for the casual reader the words Bundy chose (I would just let her keep mating) should have been clarified because of the main fact that this is a public education board.

I believe that a private PM asking her to revise or add to her wording would have been easily accepted. If, at that point the PM request is refused, then by all means make the issue public and state the intended education to the poster and issue.

I totally understand the importance of education on these public boards. I also know how one post can snowball and then lead into a vicious cycle. Here, 5 moderators decended on one post. That is a little intimidating and the result feels like an 'outing' and 'finger pointing'. The human reaction is to defend. A private PM from the very beginning would have changed that.

At this point, one does have to realize that the overall intent of posters was to educate about the seriousness of an unspayed female. I just think there was a better way to deal with this and not leave such a negative impression on the boards.

I am not defending Bundy or the mods. I think both sides could have handled it more efficiently. I am just trying to show an alternative. There are too many negatives happening in the 'real' world right now and I 'need' this site to remain a positive place to visit.

Just my humble opinion on a Sunday afternoon.

 

[lorie d.]

Originally posted by Russian Blue

I think the problem is the fact that some people know Bundy's humour and background and other's do not. For the regulars, you will know that Bundy felt sick that Amy got out and became pregnant (a previous post). She had every intent to get her spayed. But, for the casual reader the words Bundy chose (I would just let her keep mating) should have been clarified because of the main fact that this is a public education board.

I believe that a private PM asking her to revise or add to her wording would have been easily accepted. If, at that point the PM request is refused, then by all means make the issue public and state the intended education to the poster and issue.

I agree completely and I also agree with the comments about PM's in Ghys's posts here.

 

[thomas kat]

For heavens sake people! Get a grip!

The world is still turning, the sun came up this morning, the economy is in good shape, war hasn't been declared, I drove to work this morning without being killed, pay day is coming up on Friday, I'm still in a loving relationship ..... so many good things to look forward to, so much to be thankful for.

And what do we have? People raining on other peoples parades, pricking their bubble, sinking in the slipper.

I don't understand such silly nit picking. Surprisingly 99.99999% of the worlds population are unaware of these kittens and their origin and, shock horror, couldn't care less either. I can imagine that people in the third world would give their eye teeth to have a whinge about a topic like this instead of scratching around a garbage tip looking for their dinner.

Smell the roses. Oh, and yes, there's a forest on the other side of those trees - if you look.

Oppss, looks like I'm just as bad now too !!!

Yours aye

 

[bren.1]

I have joined this discussion late. I wasn't going to say anything, but then changed my mind. Leslie, please don't leave us, and please don't stop posting kitty pics. We are all concerned about cat welfare, but we also need out kitty fix, especially kittens.

I remember how upset you were when Amy got out. I looked for the thread, but I couldn't find it. I think you were asking for advice at that time, too. Nobody blames you for Amy getting out, and I know you will have her spayed asap. I also know you will do your best to find good homes for the new kittens, just like you did the others.

Please keep us updated on the little darlings! Their cyber aunties want to know how they are!