Affecting cat pH

[chesterspal]

Hello to all.

Background:

My young cat, Caleb, had an issue a few months ago with blood in his urine. Testing by the vet did not find any stones, crystals or bacteria and it seemed to resolve after a few days. Since then, no blood. He is incontinent and wears a diaper from an apparent auto accident (prior to my adopting him) so it's easy for me to test his urine using strips, regularly.

I'm now on a mission to get his pH down to a "cat-normal" mildly-acidic level of 6.25 - 6.5 (slightly orange on the test strip) so this does not happen again.

Basing my efforts on this finding:

"Struvite crystals begin to form when the urine pH is above 7, and calcium oxalate stones occur when pH falls below 6. The ideal urine pH is 6.2 to 6.4, because at this pH, neither type of stone can form."

The best I have been able to do is 6.75 to 7... slightly green on the test strip. This is borderline alkaline. Tried three different cranberry extract products in his food with no change, however, will still contiune using them, low-dose, for the anti-bacterial benefit they might provide.

Now have him on Purina ProPlan Urinary Tract Health "wet", in cans. Supposed to be lower in the minerals magnesium, phosphorus and calcium. According to their own material "...reduces urinary pH and provides low dietary magnesium to help maintain ... urinary tract health".

So far, still no change in his pH.

Caleb is an active and happy cat and plays all the time with his other cat and dog brothers. Gets along well, even with his lack of complete hind-leg motor ability, and loves to be teased and held. Sleeps in my bed with the other cat. Not overweight by a long shot. I'm very mindful of that with all my pets. Not likely stress is his problem, here.

I wonder if affecting urinary pH is even possible or if there other factors at play that I cannot control?

Has anyone on this forum had any luck affecting pH via food and/or supplements and if so, what seemed to work for you. I'm interested specifically in those that were actually testing the urine to verify the results.

Thanks much!

 

[Alldara]

Wow! Interested to see what others say (if anything). I'm not sure that many people have actually tested the ph of their cats urine.

I am curious though, do you add any extra water to the wet food? Part of the pros in wet food in general is dilution.

 

[chesterspal]

Wow! Interested to see what others say (if anything). I'm not sure that many people have actually tested the ph of their cats urine.

This is a pet pieve of mine .

For what these vets charged today, why are they not doing a simple 15 cent urine test on every visit? For that matter, why not do the entire urinary test strip with some ten values? No, they'd rather your pet get sick and then rack up the charges.

I'm all for being pro-active with my pets and with myself.

I am curious though, do you add any extra water to the wet food? Part of the pros in wet food in general is dilution.

I do not. This ProPlan canned is wet enough and all three of my pets drink their fair share of water so I'm not too concerned about their being well hydrated.

 

[Alldara]

I do not. This ProPlan canned is wet enough and all three of my pets drink their fair share of water so I'm not too concerned about their being well hydrated.

Yes they should be well hydrated on a wet food. Just curious if a bit of extra water in it could get the ph to where you want it?

I was feeding Nobel that and he didn't have any flare ups while on it, but I can't attest to the Ph.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I'd be curious if Caleb's incontinence has anything to do with his PH level. I say that in part because of the fact that he does not present with stones/crystals when tested, so even though his PH is a bit higher than you would like, it doesn't seem to be creating an environment for stone/crystal formation. The incontinence could also be behind the blood in his urine, due to bladder inflammation, which is different from an actual bladder infection. His condition might also explain why the urinary care food isn't attributing to a reduction in his PH.

Was Calb ever looked at by a vet who specializes in urology? It would be interesting to know if one of these specialists might be able to provide some insight due to their experience and background.

Pure D-Mannose is a more 'potent' version of many of the cranberry products and works the same way in helping flush out bacteria from the bladder. I have given it to my cat for a little over 2 years now to help prevent her from getting infections and - knock on wood - it has done the trick. Other members use it for general bladder health as well.
UTI Pets Pure D-Mannose Powder | WellnessPartners.com™

 

[chesterspal]

Yes they should be well hydrated on a wet food. Just curious if a bit of extra water in it could get the ph to where you want it?

Caleb is stable as is Bingo, my other cat. This is pre-emtive now on my part. Future-proofing if you will.

If it's known where cats need to be pH-wise to avoid getting stones or crystals and if we can get (and keep) our cats in that narrow range... we should be golden.

 

[chesterspal]

I'd be curious if Caleb's incontinence has anything to do with his PH level.... The incontinence could also be behind the blood in his urine, due to bladder inflammation, which is different from an actual bladder infection.... Was Calb ever looked at by a vet who specializes in urology?

When I adopted Caleb last July I was told he was thought to have been hit by a car. He was dumped at the shelter and it was then up to them do deal with him. They spent a ton of money on vet bills and specialists, ultrasound and x-rays. A complete urinalysis was done a few months ago (paid for by me) when he had the blood issue. All that came back negative and the blood issue resolved in a few days.

His pH levels are not off the charts and, in fact, Bingo is exactly the same. I'd just like to get them a tad lower to give him some breathing room before anything can develop. Once I do that, I will do the same for Bingo.

Hence, my reason to find others who are tresting their cat's urine. What are they getting on a day to day basis?

 

[chesterspal]

I am curious though, do you add any extra water to the wet food? Part of the pros in wet food in general is dilution.

As to adding extra water I mention I do not. The issue I have rignt now is Caleb's having "accidents" from what I asume is the change in food from his regular Friskies canned to this ProPlan. Even with the diaper things are leaking out .

Also, my water, like most well or city water here in the US, leans towards the alkaline side. They do make a "pet" water that is more acidic but I have not gone that route, as yet. Adding things to the water to reduce the pH is an option, too.

Many things one can try to make this all work

 

[chesterspal]

Just found this product.

Well worth your time to read through it. It explains more about what I've have posted and how the correct pH water can help.

Special pH water for cats

 

[chesterspal]

Doing a bit more research on this.

Turns out there is a very safe and easy way to alter the pH of drinking water. Just add carbon dioxide using one of those soda stream devices many of us may aready have in our homes.

This image if from my tap water.

You can see how alkaline it is. I use a chemical that colors the water to achieve the same kind of pH test as the strips. This is only added to a small amount of the water to test it. Blue is a pH of 7 or basiclaly "normal" pH.

Here is the same water after I used my soda stream to inject CO2 or carbon dioxide.

It has gone way acidic and is now down to around 4 or as low as the chart will read it.

Now I wait to see how much the pH will change (goes up towards akaline again) as the water goes "flat" from being uncapped overnight. It will lose some of the CO2 (the bubbles you see) but it will still retain some of the carbon dioxide.

I'm certain my boys will not drink it with the fizzing so I will need to flatten it, first.

So, my question is will this have any affect on the cat's uring pH if this is what he will have access to for drinking water.

Any guesses?

 

[FeebysOwner]

Have you discussed this approach with the vet? Just curious what they think. Not only might your cats dislike the fizziness, but as I understand it CO2 can also add a slight bitter taste to the water - and, I don't know if that dissipates as the water loses the fizz. Here is just one article that suggests it is probably not such a good idea as it sounds like it can cause gastric distress.
Can Cats Safely Drink Carbonated Water? | PetShun

 

[chesterspal]

Time will tell all.

 

[Furballsmom]

So, as was asked above, have you discussed this with your vet?

No, they'd rather your pet get sick and then rack up the charges.

As busy as most veterinarians are these days, with the shortage of vets and vet assistants plus the greater number of clients, this isn't the case. Never mind the fact that a good vet isn't going to even remotely entertain the idea of deliberately making, or allowing an animal to become, sick. If you think your vet might be doing this, find another one you can trust, who will be a team-member with you for Caleb and your other cats.

so this does not happen again.

As mentioned above, blood in the urine can occur from a reason other than an infection;

The incontinence could also be behind the blood in his urine, due to bladder inflammation, which is different from an actual bladder infection. His condition might also explain why the urinary care food isn't attributing to a reduction in his PH.

------------------------------------------------------

Many things one can try to make this all work

Yes, there are, without running the risk of providing your cats with water that they don't like the taste of which will cause them to drink less, or of creating a situation that is potentionally harmful to Caleb.

Additionally, why aren't you filtering your tap water to decrease the load of work for his bladder and kidneys? I have fish and snails, a couple of humans and the cat, so my tap water is filtered. Drinking/tap water in the US used to be the best in the world but it isn't clean and pristine like it used to be and there are all sorts of things that the water treatment plants are finding challenging to manage. If you live somewhere else, even more so.

Speaking of fish, and the very small window that you described above regarding the environments that can promote the creation of the two types of crystals, I'll repeat here what is a mantra on bettafish sites; these creatures can handle high-ish pH, just as long as it is stable. You don't have the room to experiment with his situation, and more than that, you don't need to.

The issue I have rignt now is Caleb's having "accidents" from what I asume is the change in food from his regular Friskies canned to this ProPlan. Even with the diaper things are leaking out

Other than a suggestion of D-mannose and adding water to their food (which is almost always a good idea), are you planning to see a specialist on Caleb's behalf? Are you keeping the diaper changed frequently and his bottom dry?

 

[Alldara]

Doing a bit more research on this.

Turns out there is a very safe and easy way to alter the pH of drinking water. Just add carbon dioxide using one of those soda stream devices many of us may aready have in our homes.

This image if from my tap water.

You can see how alkaline it is. I use a chemical that colors the water to achieve the same kind of pH test as the strips. This is only added to a small amount of the water to test it. Blue is a pH of 7 or basiclaly "normal" pH.

View attachment 468827


Here is the same water after I used my soda stream to inject CO2 or carbon dioxide.

View attachment 468828

It has gone way acidic and is now down to around 4 or as low as the chart will read it.

Now I wait to see how much the pH will change (goes up towards akaline again) as the water goes "flat" from being uncapped overnight. It will lose some of the CO2 (the bubbles you see) but it will still retain some of the carbon dioxide.

I'm certain my boys will not drink it with the fizzing so I will need to flatten it, first.

So, my question is will this have any affect on the cat's uring pH if this is what he will have access to for drinking water.

Any guesses?

I mean, if your cat is testing 6.75 to 7, and you're trying to bring the ph down, (to 6.2 to 6.4) Im wondering why you're dismissing simply trying adding some regular water to the wet food. It has a proven track record as being one of the main things vets suggest...

The pH balance of the water is not going to ph balance your cat. That's been made clear with human and animals under the "pH balanced water" craze.

Rather, best to filter the water to remove any minerals that could contribute to stones and just ensure he has extra water.

 

[IndyJones]

Just found this product.

Well worth your time to read through it. It explains more about what I've have posted and how the correct pH water can help.

Special pH water for cats

I actualy had started a thread on this not long ago and its really sketchy.
Cat water

some members even believe it to be a total scam.

I think its not worth it imo.

 

[chesterspal]

Progress!

So to update what I've done since my last posting...

Did some research on bottled water and found one water, in particular, to be extremely low in pH. That water being Disani, which they claim has a pH of 5.5. I found it to be even lower at around 4+. No funny taste and all my boys took to it from the get go. I see Caleb drinking from the bowl so I know he's getting well hydrated.

After a week now Caleb's urine is testing at around 6+, which is just where it needs to be.

Disani is also one of the cheaper east to find bottled waters. Dollar Store and Walmart carry it as do others. Costs is around $2.33 a gallon but the 17 oz bottles seem to be easier to find... for me anyway.

I took him off the ProPlan as that was doing nothing to lower his pH. He is back on the Friskies with Bingo. They split a can in the morning and again in the evening. I also have all my boys on a daily probiotic. The exact same one I take. It's a tiny capsule that I open and mix in with their morning food.

 

[Alldara]

Again, the PH of the water doesn't mean anything. It's the amount of water your cat gets that effects the PH.

The water is going through your cat's digestive system. The stomach needs acide to digest and the stomach is going to produce as much acid as it needs to digest regardless of the ph of the water.

Dasani has salt in it (at least here). If your cat has urinary issues, you shouldn't add more salt to his diet.

 

[chesterspal]

Dasani has salt in it (at least here). If your cat has urinary issues, you shouldn't add more salt to his diet.

All water has some salt in it. From all I can deduce, theirs is minimal and is certainly far less than my home's well water. The reason I do not give it to my pets.

Caleb does not have UTI. Nor does Bingo or Chester, my dog.

My efforts are to make sure they do not have it in the future.

This is my last post. Take care!

 

[Alldara]

All water has some salt in it. From all I can deduce, theirs is minimal and is certainly far less than my home's well water. The reason I do not give it to my pets.

Caleb does not have UTI. Nor does Bingo or Chester, my dog.

My efforts are to make sure they do not have it in the future.

This is my last post. Take care!

I understand the purpose of your efforts. Again, the ph of the water will not matter for any regular drinking water.

 

[chesterspal]

Did some simple testing of three waters to check for the presence of salt in each. The amount of salt in water will affect electrical resistance and can be used as a crude method to compare one water to another. The more salt the lower the electrical resistance.

Simple to understand and simple to test with a standard volt ohm meter (VOM).

The two leads are attached to a 9 volt battery clip used to keep the "electrodes" exactly the same distance apart for the tests. The meter is allowed to return to 0 ohms before each test. The electrodes are dried with a heat gun between each test. The electrodes are suspended in the water for 1 minute each. Enough time for the meter reading to stabilize.

The three waters are: My Tap Water, Spring Water from a local aquifer, Disani Bottled Water. The tap water is not filtered or altered. It is the way it comes from the ground. The same goes for the spring water. Just as it comes from the aquifer in town.

The results speak for themselves. The tap water, as I stated prior, has more salt than one would like. In fact, if I had a heart issue I was advised not to drink it. I do not give it to my pets, In the past, they drank the Spring Water, which has less sodium as the test results show. However, it is also high in pH.

The Disani water has the least amount of sodium of the three. Almost half that of my tap water and not that far from the spring water I have been using.

Therefore, I do not feel allowing my three boys to drink it will cause them any more harm than the spring water. If someone here can provide actual proof to the contrary, please do so.

Whether or not the lower pH water has any affect on their pH, I can only go by what my tests show. I see positive results and the only difference is the water they are drinking.