Advice Needed with 2day old Kitten!! Help Please!!

[furbabiesnmira]

So early hours of this morning, had a little 'heart in mouth moment'..  

something told me to go check on Mummy n kittens.. so I did.. and lil Titch was nowhere to be seen! Anywhere! Then after 5 frantic minutes, I found him UNDER the bed, BEHIND the crate, on the floor.. huddled against the woodwork and shivering! He didn't seem to be breathing properly so I wrapped him in a teatowel with a low heated rice sock and kept him close to me for the next 5hrs.. his breathing regulated and settled - I also managed over those 5hrs - to get 5.6ml into him.. checked his weight.. and he'd put exactly NO WEIGHT on at all in 18hrs.. 

I asked OH to take over feeds as I was exhausted and was getting a headache from the worry and long hectic night.. he agreed.. so once I'd made sure Titch was comfortable, clean and warm and asleep.. I dozed off.. 

woke up around 2hrs later to find the box I'd put Titch into was empty.. I darted out of bed and went through to find OH had put him back in with Mummy! I was SOOOOOOOOOOOO not impressed!

I'd spent almost 20 mins on the phone to the vet as soon as they opened this morning and got told I'd done everything right and to keep doing it.. so you can imagine how pissed (sorry) I was that OH had put Titch back in with Mummy (he'd took ANOTHER 2ml from OH and started yowing.. Mummy heard and responded so he'd took Titch back to her and she'd allowed him to suckle and fall asleep latched.. ) and all 'seemed' to be ok.. This was around 1pm... 

Fast forward to 7pm tonight.. I'd been out with daughter and grand-daughter (drs appointment) and when I made it home, went to check how everything was.. Titch was laid in the  middle of the crate.. away from Mummy.. full tum but didn't look like he was moving much.. I carefully watched to check he was breathing and it was 'regular'.. and it was... 

My dilemma now... do I remove Titch fully and feed as I had and hope that OH respects my wishes and DOESN'T put Titch back in with Mummy no matter how much she yowls.. ORRRRR... Do I keep supplementing him but leave him in with Mummy when I know she's not attempting to keep him warm.. without adequate heat - he's not going to be able to digest properly or 'pass' as it were.. 

 

 

[mingsmongols]

Oh man. That had to be terrifying. This is a tough situation to be in. Do you have the ability to keep him with you for two weeks straight? It would mean missing work and very few chances to get a good night's sleep. Sleeping in an hour and a half intervals is very taxing on the body and givin the time of year it will probably end up with you getting sick.

 

[talkingpeanut]

I would not remove the kitten. I would add an alternate heating source. He needs his mom, needs his sibling, and needs unlimited access to food.

 

[furbabiesnmira]

I'm registered disabled and don't work. I barely sleep a full night through due to the health problems I have anyways especially as winter here in the UK is gripping rapidly as the days go by.

I don't go out except on a weds afternoon which is able to be rearranged if necessary. ( I take my grand-daughter to school one day a week to give her Mummy a break from it and it means I get some alone time with her) so I could arrange the feedings so that Titch is fed, cleaned and sleeping whilst I took her down and get Mummy to pick her up instead of me doing both trips.. As for keeping him with me for 2wks straight - that's not going to be a problem either..

My OH would do a couple of the feeds throught he day so I can get a nap under STRICT instruction NOT to return Titch to Mummy (even I were to tell him the vet advised against it because of what had happened last night  lol ) 

one other thing.. His eyes are open.. not just a little bit - they're WIDE open.. he's not even a full week old?! Is this normal?? I've also noticed that his fur isn't as thick in certain places - like on his back legs, chest and stomach.. Does this mean he's been a prem as am aware some mummies can get caught on different days but once labour starts for one - it means both would be born? 

 

[talkingpeanut]

I really think you should supplement every hour or two, leave the kitten with mom, and add a heating source. I don't see why that wouldn't be best.

 

[catmom marcia]

Personally, having fostered well over 200 kittens, many with mommas, I find that letting momma do the work and not stressing is best.  Now that you know baby is over the hump, just peek in once in awhile and be sure baby is eating it's fill and momma is tending to it.  

 

[furbabiesnmira]

As she's showing very little interest and the fact that we found him behind the crate, under the bed.. is 2 of the concerns.. the fact he's not gaining is another and the only reason for him staying would be for him to gain time with his sibling - who likes pushing him off whenever Titch DOES manage to get latched  

I'm more than happy to supplement feed but would that not alienate him from Mummy even more when we take him from the crate to feed him? 

 

[furbabiesnmira]

There is kinda another way but I'm nt sure whether it would work?

My daughter has a Queen who is ready to have her litter any day... she has had several litters (nope, not my choice either and not impressed with it but not my cat.. ) and I know she'd possibly take Titch in with her litter... which would leave Mummy with Gannet (the bigger kitten) and Honey - the other Queen - available to nurse Titch amongst her own?? 

 

[talkingpeanut]

It's really not healthy for these cats to be having multiple litters. Would you like help finding a low cost clinic in your area? I don't like the idea that you don't know if this cat will be kept in while she's nursing.

You supplementing will not alienate him from mom. As he gets stronger he will nurse from her more often too.

 

[furbabiesnmira]

Oh I DO know it'll be kept in whilst nursing because she's coming to me tomorrow morning!

My cats are indoor cats becasue of various issues whih  I think I mentioned when I originally posted.

Honey is my eldest grand-daughters cat. her mum is a single mum on benefits and I've told her - and the vet - that as soon as her kittens are weaned - she can go in same time as MY cat is going - and get spayed! She'll get help with the costs, we won't because my OH works more than 30hrs a week despite being a low paid job.. just how it is here in the UK.. 

 

[Mamanyt1953]

 
As she's showing very little interest and the fact that we found him behind the crate, under the bed.. is 2 of the concerns.. the fact he's not gaining is another and the only reason for him staying would be for him to gain time with his sibl.ng - who likes pushing him off whenever Titch DOES manage to get latched  

I'm more than happy to supplement feed but would that not alienate him from Mummy even more when we take him from the crate to feed him? 

I don't believe that it would alienate Mum.  We've recently had a similar situation, but this was an older queen who wasn't producing milk.  She did everything but the feeding,  And a nice rice sock in the nest would keep little Titch nice and snuggly warm,  Boy, this is a rough one.  I'm worried that IF one of the other queens won't take him on, their scent might well make Mum turn on him, so be careful there.  Best of luck on this difficult case.  I'm sending good thoughts your way daily!

 

[StefanZ]

 
There is kinda another way but I'm nt sure whether it would work?

My daughter has a Queen who is ready to have her litter any day... she has had several litters (nope, not my choice either and not impressed with it but not my cat.. ) and I know she'd possibly take Titch in with her litter... which would leave Mummy with Gannet (the bigger kitten) and Honey - the other Queen - available to nurse Titch amongst her own?? 

This idea could work out.  Foster mommas very often accept a new fosterling, usually even withouth any big fuss.  They just do it.  Hey, you have seen the youtube films when a momma fetched a squirrel baby, or even a duckling...

If you want to double guard, you can do some scent swapping.

But yeah, there IS some risk it will alienate Titch from teh biological momma...   So everyhting is possible, but not much is entirely sure...

Main scenario is anyways, Titch with momma as long as she cares, and you supplementing and taking weigh every 12 hours...  If necessary giving full food.  

Your momma and daus momma dont know each other?  Probably best to held them separated then.  Unless they visibly wants each others company.

If they know each others, and are friends, you can probably have them together.     And if so, it wont matter much whom is nursing Titch, as long as you observe and take the weightings...   Some kittens are weak sucklers, so its necessary to supplement them, even if they do have a ccess to a perfeclty good momma.

 

[furbabiesnmira]

Hi everyone, I've not posted n a couple of days.. had a bit of a hairy moment - Precious was laid on top of Titch over his front legs and his chest and his breathing was affected - he was gaspy and had his mouth open the entire time... Removed him straight away and kept him against my skin, he settled and his breathing regulated. He stayed with me for about 5hrs and took 4ml in that time. Weighed him and his weight had gone to 106g.. then I popped him in his box with rice sock, tea towel, inner from an old cushion to lay on and he slept 3hrs  

Checked on him before bed and he was fine. He woke and took 5.5ml virtually straight poor lil mite. I gave him 2ml and did his cleaning up as it were and he started trying to suckle my finger so OH made up another batch of Cimi-cat and he took another 2ml then another 1.5ml from OH! Think he found his appetite.. lol.. 

As I said in last post made, we were getting a Queen who was due. Well, it's also Precious' Mum.. so they knew each other and I put them together before Queen had the kittens.. I thought if there was going to be any issues then they'd crop up sooner rather than later. Everything went fine. No hissing, no growling, no nothing - so we left them together. Titch tried feeding from her and she was lactating which I knew would mean her kittens were due to arrive within the next 2-3 days (this wasn't a bad guess as Honey - the newer Queen and Precious' mum - gave birth dec 1st around midnight. 4 kittens, 2 all grey, a grey and white and a black and white.) 

I stayed close - outside the room for about 3hrs - just in case there was any chance of there being a problem now she'd had her litter. Thankfully there wasn't. I poked my head in and found Precious feeding her larger kitten, honey feeding three of her own, cleaning the other and at first - couldn't see Titch.. Honey shifted a little and there he was.. under her back leg.. latched and feeding alongside the three of Honeys kittens! Ohhh boy was I glad to see that. Surprised but glad. We're now on dec 3rd and Titch got weighed this morning.. he now a better 122g He's not been supplemented in 28hrs but I'm now not sure if I should or leave him to nurse with Honeys Kittens.. OH gave him 3ml this morning before he went to his stablehand job - feed was given around 8.30 and I weighed Titch around 11.30 and he was sleeping across Precious when I went in. So far so good. 

Do I still supplement Titch or leave him be as he's now suckling from Honey? Scary thought for you guys.... Honeys lightest kitten at birth was 111g, her heaviest weighed 115g.. So in theory - Titch is just and so around THEIR birth weight and he's over a week old.. I'm happy to maintain the supplementing for Titch if it's deemed ok?  Or do you guys have any other ideas for me please? 

I'm really grateful to you for bearing with me and giving me advice. It's been over 18yr since I had to hand rear or shared rear of a kitten.. lol.. 

 

[StefanZ]

 
Hi everyone, I've not posted n a couple of days.. had a bit of a hairy moment - Precious was laid on top of Titch over his front legs and his chest and his breathing was affected - he was gaspy and had his mouth open the entire time... Removed him straight away and kept him against my skin, he settled and his breathing regulated. He stayed with me for about 5hrs and took 4ml in that time. Weighed him and his weight had gone to 106g.. then I popped him in his box with rice sock, tea towel, inner from an old cushion to lay on and he slept 3hrs  

Checked on him before bed and he was fine. He woke and took 5.5ml virtually straight poor lil mite. I gave him 2ml and did his cleaning up as it were and he started trying to suckle my finger so OH made up another batch of Cimi-cat and he took another 2ml then another 1.5ml from OH! Think he found his appetite.. lol.. 

As I said in last post made, we were getting a Queen who was due. Well, it's also Precious' Mum.. so they knew each other and I put them together before Queen had the kittens.. I thought if there was going to be any issues then they'd crop up sooner rather than later. Everything went fine. No hissing, no growling, no nothing - so we left them together. Titch tried feeding from her and she was lactating which I knew would mean her kittens were due to arrive within the next 2-3 days (this wasn't a bad guess as Honey - the newer Queen and Precious' mum - gave birth dec 1st around midnight. 4 kittens, 2 all grey, a grey and white and a black and white.) 

I stayed close - outside the room for about 3hrs - just in case there was any chance of there being a problem now she'd had her litter. Thankfully there wasn't. I poked my head in and found Precious feeding her larger kitten, honey feeding three of her own, cleaning the other and at first - couldn't see Titch.. Honey shifted a little and there he was.. under her back leg.. latched and feeding alongside the three of Honeys kittens! Ohhh boy was I glad to see that. Surprised but glad. We're now on dec 3rd and Titch got weighed this morning.. he now a better 122g He's not been supplemented in 28hrs but I'm now not sure if I should or leave him to nurse with Honeys Kittens.. OH gave him 3ml this morning before he went to his stablehand job - feed was given around 8.30 and I weighed Titch around 11.30 and he was sleeping across Precious when I went in. So far so good. 

Do I still supplement Titch or leave him be as he's now suckling from Honey? Scary thought for you guys.... Honeys lightest kitten at birth was 111g, her heaviest weighed 115g.. So in theory - Titch is just and so around THEIR birth weight and he's over a week old.. I'm happy to maintain the supplementing for Titch if it's deemed ok?  Or do you guys have any other ideas for me please? 

I'm really grateful to you for bearing with me and giving me advice. It's been over 18yr since I had to hand rear or shared rear of a kitten.. lol.

Wonderful news, everything seems to go along with the most optimistical scenario.  both mommas friends, momma nr 2 got her litter without any problems, momma nr 2 accepted Titch without any fuss, and he is now gladely eating alongside his foster siblings (cousins, right?).   I presume he even got some colostrum!  Which is precious - even better than raw goats milk 

I think you can let him be now with grandma, as she accepts him. Continue to observe closely, and take tight weights, every 12 hours.  Be ready for supplementing anew, but take a pause with it as long as he gains handsomely, minimum 6+ a day, but preferably 10 - or even more.

While you are at it, do weigh also the cousins.  As they arent critical for them, its enough with every 24 hours.

You and your OH seems to handle everything here very nicely.   Many a good pros could learn a trick or two from you.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Aw.  I'm a little weepy that Granny has stepped in for Titch!  Best possible thing.  Yes, leave him with her.  Just keep watch, as our expert says!