Adult Cats Still Don't Get Along

[greenqueen]

Hi all,

I've posted here about my cats when we first adopted them and some things have changed, but some things still sucks.

My husband and I adopted a 2 year old male named Charlie and a 4 year old female named Bodie in May.

They didn't get along and Charlie often stalked and chased Bodie. We started keeping them separated when Charlie attacked Bodie fairly seriously.

We've increased vertical space somewhat and have been able to let them out together while we feed them morning and night. Last weekend we tried leaving them out for a while, but Charlie attacked Bodie again so we separated them.

When we let them out during mealtime Bodie runs up to Charlie and starts smelling him and head bumping him and rubbing on him. He mostly responds by whacking her on the head with his paw (claws in). When he does this, I gently say "no, charlie. No hitting. Be a good boy." He'll often walk away.

Since we got them as adults, we don't know what they were like as kittens, but it seems like maybe Charlie wasnt socialized with other cats? He doesn't seem to understand that Bodie is saying hello when she rubs her head on him.

Is there anything we can or should do at this point? Increase play? More vertical space/hidey spots? More beds and nap spots? Clicker training? Treat training?

Any advice is appreciated, thank you.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hang in there, it is still pretty early in the process.

Did you go through the formal introduction process?

There are some positives in what you have written. Bodie head butts him etc. And he understand "no" and walks away. So this situation is definitely workable.

Please describe exactly what the attacks are like. And how Bodie responds to them. And how they both act after them.

Do they act normally other than when Charlie charges Bodie? No hiding or other signs of lack of confidence?

I am a big believer in using food, play, height, and love as confidence builders. When cats are confident they are less likely to want to attack other cats in my opinion.

It sounds like they are eating together morning and night. GREAT. I would try to get them to play even more. If you can play with one cat and your husband play with the other that could help. After play feed treats or food. He is young so he has a lot of energy. A lot of play can also tire him out.

If they are together try to distract Charlie with play or food or love so that he isn't as focused on Bodie.

Give them places to go high (and escape for Bodie) and also increase the comfy places (beds etc).

Also, try to get Bodie's scent on old shirts and put them near where Charlie sleeps/hangs out. 

We always want to associate the other cat with good things so play and food tend to work really well.

Try to get every interaction between them positive. Try to give Charlie a lot of love.

It is still early in their relationship and I need more info to understand exactly what is going on and what is causing it (Charlie having too much energy, not knowing how to play, fear, etc). But given what I know so far I think there is no reason it will not work out.

Please feel free to ask anything, I am more than happy to help.

 

[greenqueen]

Thanks.

Well we didn't do a formal introduction because they were together in the shelter when we adopted them. The shelter told us they knew each other and got along, but didn't tell us that the cats had only been together a day.

Charlie pounces on Bodie or near her. He will stalk her and after he pounces she will slink away, at which point he stalks her. He doesn't use his claws, unless she tries to get on our bed. Then he'll get a little more aggressive. When he starts stalking her, he won't stop. He won't come play or cuddle. The only thing to do is remove him.

We're currently switching them between our spare room and the rest of the house every morning.

Bodie doesn't particularly care for high spaces, she mostly likes little hidey spots. She also doesn't play to energetically, whereas Charlie is very strong a d plays hard. He's got about 8 pounds on her.

It just doesn't seem to be getting much better from May. Though, twice now, charlie has licked Bodie's head after she head buts him.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Great that Charlie has licked Bodie twice now. This tells me that it should work out.

Have they ever really fought? Has Bodie ever been hurt? Does Bodie fear him?

I would really do a couple of things. Try to get them to eat near each other even if it means a baby gate between them.

Do the scent swapping. Get her scent on an old shirt and put them where he likes to hang out and vice versa.

I would really try to get her to play and to go high (use treats or whatever food she likes to get her up where she can look down),

Play with him as much as possible. After play feed food or treats. If you have Bodie watch him playing I think that would help. The more confident he is I think the less likely he will want to pounce on her (unless that is his way of playing).

When they are together and he starts to stalk find a side of a box and use that as a barrier to block his view of her. Then try to distract with food or play. 

How is Bodie's confidence? Does she hide after being pounced on? If so, for how long? She does keep coming back to head butt him though. Most of the time? I really want to understand how she views him.

It has only been 5 months so I am not too worried. I think we can get these two to live together safely.

I hope this helps and am happy to help you along the way.

 

[greenqueen]

You are amazing. I really appreciate this. I dread having to get rid of one of them, because I adore them both.

A lot of times, Bodie will hide from Charlie after being pounced on for a while. I'll have to find her and pick her up to get her to move. Yet, every morning and night when we open the door to feed them and let them interact she head burts him immediately and doesnt really leave until he acts like he's going to bat at her.

She has been hurt before. He gave her a scratch on the nose and I pulled a piece of his claws out of it the next day. That was the event that made us decide to separate them when we first got them in may.

Bodie will bat at him though a little if he attacks and she used to never do that. She would just run.

I'll try getting her scent in a sweater and put it in his cat tree that he likes. And maybe his bed too. Bodie doesn't sleep in her bed anymore. She used too, but then Charlie started sleeping in it so she stopped.

I think a lot of the time he really is just too hyper and wants to play, but his is also very territorial and wI'll attack her if she goes in our bedroom or gets on our bed.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I think there are enough positive signs to suggest that it will work out. I'll be here for you during the process.

She is trying to let him know she wants to be friends. He just needs to feel more secure that she will not hurt him or take food from him etc. It is not uncommon for a cat to hide after being pounced on. The more we can build her confidence the more it will help. The more she acts like prey (running away) the more he feels emboldened.

Do you remember what happened before he scratched her on her nose? Is that the only time she has been injured?

Does Bodie have a nice comfy bed to sleep in? If so, try to get his scent on an old shirt and put it where she sleeps.

It sounds like he is a bit territorial. I would guess Bodie is staying away from the bedroom given that. Hopefully that will help reduce any attacks. Try to give them a few areas to sleep, lounge, hang out in. With nice comfy beds.  Do they have places where they can look out of the window?

How much interaction do they have together now? How does the chasing/stalking/pouncing usually start? Does her head butting him start it off or does it vary? How long when they first come into contact does that happen?

I am not sure how loving they are but if it is possible if you can get them to relax and purr with the other one around I think that would be helpful (in addition to using food and play). Anytime we associate good things like food and play and love (purring) with the other cat that is helpful and anytime they are near each other without incident it is very helpful. We want positive encounters so that they view the other cat as a positive. Really use play and food to build Charlie's confidence. And try to get both of them going up in the world. I would like to hear about Bodie going up in the world if he decides to stalk/chase. Use treats or food to try to get her up on cat trees or anything else high. And try to play a lot with Charlie to get some of that energy out of him.

I do see any reason why we can't get them to get along so hang in there. I'll be here for you through the process. please ask anything and we'll figure this out.

Thanks for caring so much about them.

 

[greenqueen]

When Bodie got scratched it was because my husband and I were going to bed and they were both trying to come into bed with us.

Bodie doesn't use her bed anymore, she just sleeps in bed with us (as does Charlie most nights). She hangs out in the muffle run of the cat tree and so does he, so she gets his scent there and he gets hers.

Bodie did escape from the spare room. Few days ago and went a jumped on the cat tower and Charlie didn't like that, but he didn't really pounce on her. We was slinking around watching her though.

They both love to cuddle, but won't cuddle us in the same room as each other.

My husband were thinking of letting them be together for an hour or so on saturday, when we're both home. We were going to both cuddle them and play with them and give them treats and see how they reacted.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That was the only time Bodie got scratched, correct?

And now they sleep in the same bed with you most nights?

How many hours of the day are they physically separated currently? Just when either of you are away or when someone is home as well?

VERY GOOD that Charlie behaved when she went on the cat tree while he was there. Try to let him know he was good when he is good. You can give him a treat then as well if possible.

Cuddle with them with an old shirt with the others scent on it. So they may not be there but their scent will be. If they purr that would be great.

Just take it slowly for now. Try to make sure that any interaction is a positive interaction regardless of how long. Then you can slowly increase the exposure. 

Are they eating together at all now? If not, try to get them to eat even if it is on each side of a closed door or screen door or baby gate etc. Associating the other cat with food usually does wonders.

I would like to ehar these answers and then think about whether they should be put together. I am a little confused as to how much access they have to each other right now so I want to understand the situation a bit more. The best thing is small baby steps and build on that. But I look forward to hearing some of these answers and will suggest a path from there. Thanks

 

[greenqueen]

Right. That's the only time she got scratched..

Right now they are separated at all times, except when we are getting their food together morning and night. At that point we open the door, let them mingle while I put their food in dishes and then let them eat together with the door open.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Great that that is the only time she got scratched.

GREAT that they are eating together with the door open. How far away are they from each other while eating? Do they ignore each other and just eat?

You mentioned that Bodie sleeps in bed with you and Charlie sometimes does as well. So they are together without any barrier during this time? If so, do they get down and eat then come back up? Or what do they do during the night? 

 

[greenqueen]

They are about 4 or 5 feet apart when they eat. They more or less ignore each other when they eat. Bokie takes a while to eat (she's missing a fang) and so if we leave the door open the whole time they eat, Charlie will finish and then go and eat Bodie's food as well. Bodie likes to eat a littlemail, walk away then come back and eat more.

They are separated at night. Every other night Bodie is out with us, and Charlie is out opposite nights. They cannot exist in the bedroom together peacefully. Charlie will attack Bodie.

 

[Primula]

My two adult females are totally indifferent to each other. They will never be friends. That is ok. They are not allowed in the bedroom with us at night. Cats seem to get really territorial then.

Google Feliway to see whether you want to purchase some. Pheronome collars too. Believe it or not, stuff like this really works.

You've got tons of good advice above from CalicosRSpecial & everything she has posted makes good sense.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Great that they are eating that closely and mostly ignoring each other.

Ok, that makes more sense on the bedroom.

I am trying to figure out if I would do the scent swapping for a while before getting them together and to build Bodie's confidence more before getting them together. If you feel really confident that you can distract Charlie with food and/or play when they are together not separated by any barrier then I would probably try to have them together for 5 or 10 minutes then see how things go and the next day try to extend that time and a little more each day. We just want to avoid any negative encounters if possible.  I tend to feed them their favorite food (warm chicken thighs tend to work with cats I work with) so I would use something like his favorite food with Charlie so he doesn't view her as any negative or threat. I would also have a big piece of cardboard ready to block off the site just in case. Also, in the area you let them in makes sure there are multiple escape routes both horizontally and vertically so no one gets cornered. And in a neutral area where he isn't as territorial. Given they eat together and there hasn't been real fighting other than the scratch incident I think he should be careful with her and if he is distracted and doesn't chase her then her confidence will grow. I tend to focus on spoiling the one I worry most about with play, food and love as much as possible so they feel like they aren't negatively impacted by the other cat. So I woudl really focus on Charlie as it sounds like he is the one we really need to make feel most comfortable (to stop chasing and pouncing).

I have to run but will try to check this thread tomorrow.