Absolutely desperate! Litterbox issue

[lcws]

Hi everyone,

Fred is my little foster kitten who is probably about three months old at this point but he looks much younger, as he was sickly and had failure to thrive.  Poor thing has been through so much, he had ringworm when we got him, intestinal worms, diarrhea.....his eyes were almost swollen shut and fur was missing from around his eyes and forehead, also his paws & legs.  We even thought he was blind at first because his eyes did not follow objects.  He did not know how to play - I'm sure he just plain did not feel like it.   He's been on so many medications - metronidazole cleared his diarrhea after two doses - but the medication itself almost killed him too as he was so tiny and frail.  We've kept him sequestered from our other cats during all this. It's been a constant battle, one thing after another, but one thing he's never lacked is love, even during our most frustrating moments.  He has never been consistent with litterbox use - sometimes he'll go in it, other times he'll just pick a random spot in the kitchen floor.  (he is negative for feline leukemia and aids, BTW).  Last Saturday we took him to the vet because he had the beginnings of a URI - he was given an antibiotic injection, eye ointment, and Panacur.  He had only gained about 2 ounces in over a month, even though he wants to eat nonstop.  Anyway, since then, we had five blissful days of no accidents at all....he knows exactly where the litterbox is because we often watch him go directly to it and use it.   We were so hopeful.   He is so much healthier now, or so it seems.  His fur has grown back, his eyes are bright & clear and he can definitely see, he runs & plays with the other cats and toys - he acts like a normal kitten.   Except for his litterbox inconsistency.   We've tried the obvious things that are advised - changing litters, changing boxes, cleaning it after each use, etc, things like that.  I don't think he has an issue with any of this -- it almost seems like to me that maybe some neurons in that little brain of his aren't always firing - I don't know.   Like he forgets.   He often looks confused.   But after five days of NO accidents at all, all of a sudden he started finding other places to go.   Last night we decided to keep him up for the night in a spare bathroom, with a litterbox of course; this morning, he had found two places on the floor of the bathroom to go, AND he had used the box as well!!    This is so baffling to me!!   If he NEVER used the box, it might be easier to figure out, but he does sometimes.   Just not all the time.   And we just cannot figure this out.   I've never had this issue with a kitten before.   We have become so attached to him through all of his issues that we want to keep him, he's a very sweet kitten, but the litterbox thing could wind up being a deal breaker if we can't figure out what to do.   My husband is especially attached and this issue is killing him because he does not want to give Fred up.   I don't either.  we've brought him back from the brink of death a couple of times and we have bonded with the llittle guy.   But I am fresh out of ideas.   Any input/advice would be appreciated more than you know.

Thank you so much!!!!!

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

@Lcws, may i ask -- how many cats and how many litter boxes do you have?  do you scoop the urine and poop clumps out of the litter box(es) immediately after they've been "deposited"? any litter box "wars" or bullying going on? do any of your cats prefer particular litter box(es), and "claim" them as theirs and only theirs?

 

[biancaboo]

Have you tried using soil or clay or a mix in his box? It might be the materials in the litter you are using. Cats can be finicky for the most unknown reasons sometimes. 

 

[lcws]

Hi, thanks for responding!  I have four adult cats, three large covered boxes.   And a smaller, uncovered one that was going to be just Fred's, but that doesn't keep the others out       We keep the boxes meticulously clean - as long as one of us is home.   There are stretches of time when no one is at home and the cleaning has to wait until one of us arrives.   I have not noticed any wars between them, nor any preferences of boxes.   I've seen all of them go to every box - I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to why they pick the particular one they do, but now that you brought it up, I will start paying closer attention when I see one headed for the boxes and see if I notice any particular pattern.    That still wouldn't explain why, when he was in the bathroom by himself and had a box all to himself, that he would sometimes use it and sometimes go on the floor.   Unless maybe, perhaps, after he went in it, he didn't want to use it again because it was "dirty" and decided to use the floor instead.   If that's what it is then we have a problem because when no one is home, or overnight, we can't immediately remove the deposits.   So frustrating.   And baffling.   I had been considering toilet training my adult cats just before Fred came along - I have a friend who successfully did that - boy how nice that would be.   It's still on my agenda for the future.

Thanks so much for your input and I'm going to try & see if I notice anything going on that you mentioned!!    Cats are so persnickety.....

 

[lcws]

Hi Biancaboo, yes we have tried just about every kind of litter there is, including, as someone suggested, putting a bit of outside dirt and leaves on the top so that it would resemble the outdoors where he was before we got him.   

Thanks for responding.  

 

[lcws]

This is a before and after pic of Fred.   Bless him.    He's really come a long way.

fred2.JPG

• lcws
• Aug 9, 2014

fred.JPG

• lcws
• Aug 9, 2014

 

[biancaboo]

Very cute, if you are serious about toilet training your cats you might want to look into something like this http://www.petsmart.com/cat/litter-...6-catid-200018?var_id=36-6667&_t=pfm=category

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

@Lcws, that's a good idea to try to keep an eye on what goes on with all the cats and the litter boxes, but i'd be careful not to disturb or upset (unintentionally) any of the cats while they're in the litter boxes. if they're not used to people being close to them or watching them while they're in the littler boxes, they could become a bit stressed. the last thing we want is to cause a cat stress while using the litter box.

the general rule of thumb is "one litter box per cat, plus one". sometimes our cats can be fine with less than ideal, but sometimes not. if i'm understanding correctly, you have 4 litter boxes. and you have 4 adult cats and fred who is still a kitten. so ideally you should have 6 litter boxes. fred is still very young -- about 12 weeks old, but as you said looks younger. young kittens are like toddlers, when they need to "go", they need to go right now. it's many times suggested to place several litter boxes around the home, so the kitten is able to get to the litter box quickly to do his/her "business". these would be temporary litter boxes, just until the kitten is old enough that he/she's able to get to a litter box further away before peeing/pooping.

are the litter boxes placed in quiet places, where there isn't a lot of human traffic or activity going on? cats usually prefer these kind of locations for their litter boxes.

"Unless maybe, perhaps, after he went in it, he didn't want to use it again because it was "dirty" and decided to use the floor instead.   If that's what it is then we have a problem because when no one is home, or overnight, we can't immediately remove the deposits."   if this is part of what's going on, then i think it maybe could be worked with. setting up a "quiet room" for fred for when you won't be home for a while and for overnight, where he'll have several litter boxes and food/water and toys would be one thing to try.

there's also a product called cat attract. it comes in cat litter and also litter additive forms. i have no experience using it, but it might be something to try and see if it helps.

something to keep in mind when considering (human) toilet training for cats is that you won't be able to keep a close eye on how much and what consistency with their urine and poops. sometimes one of the first signs we see that something medical is going on with our cat is related to their litter box output. it's a very important "tool" for cat parents.

 

[lcws]

To mickNsnicks2mom,

Thank you very much for your very informative post.  You've given me a lot of things to think about and I appreciate it very much. 

We have tried the Cat Attract litter.   I was so hoping....but it didn't make any difference.   My husband suggested putting puppy pads around the places where he goes but I am TOTALLY against that.....I think it's a bad idea, because it seems he would get used to using the pads and not a box.   (he meant well.  haha)   We might have to do as you suggested and just put boxes all around temporarily for Fred.   Just hope it doesn't confuse my other cats who I think are kind of confused by the whole situation with poop on the floor anyway - none of them have ever done this and I hope they don't get it in their minds that "if he can do it I can too".   That would be a very bad situation!  haha  

I had a friend recommend Feliway - diffuser to hopefully help with any stress issues.   Anyone ever used that?   Fred does not seem stressed to me but what do I know.  I'm willing to try just about anything.   He has no fear at all of my adults, and they all seem protective of him (thank goodness).   But I can't say for sure that he's not stressed.

I think what really got me was the fact that last night he was in a secluded bathroom all to himself with his own clean litterbox, and still used the floor.

I'm going to put some other litterboxes around as you suggested.   And I so appreciate everyone's input - it's a good feeling to know there's a place you can go for advice & support when you need it!

Thanks again!!!

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

 
To mickNsnicks2mom,

Thank you very much for your very informative post.  You've given me a lot of things to think about and I appreciate it very much. 

We have tried the Cat Attract litter.   I was so hoping....but it didn't make any difference.   My husband suggested putting puppy pads around the places where he goes but I am TOTALLY against that.....I think it's a bad idea, because it seems he would get used to using the pads and not a box.   (he meant well.  haha)   We might have to do as you suggested and just put boxes all around temporarily for Fred.   Just hope it doesn't confuse my other cats who I think are kind of confused by the whole situation with poop on the floor anyway - none of them have ever done this and I hope they don't get it in their minds that "if he can do it I can too".   That would be a very bad situation!  haha  

I had a friend recommend Feliway - diffuser to hopefully help with any stress issues.   Anyone ever used that?   Fred does not seem stressed to me but what do I know.  I'm willing to try just about anything.   He has no fear at all of my adults, and they all seem protective of him (thank goodness).   But I can't say for sure that he's not stressed.

I think what really got me was the fact that last night he was in a secluded bathroom all to himself with his own clean litterbox, and still used the floor.

I'm going to put some other litterboxes around as you suggested.   And I so appreciate everyone's input - it's a good feeling to know there's a place you can go for advice & support when you need it!

Thanks again!!!

i use feliway in my house. it's just me and my little girl, snick, now. i've used the feliway diffusers for about 4 years or so now, and keep two running constantly. i started using them when we lived in an apartment that had noise from neighbors entering/exiting the building at all hours of the day/night, which caused my (then) two cats much stress. the feliway helped them feel less stress then, and i've kept the diffusers running since then. the diffusers can take up to 60 days to start seeing some positive results, but i started seeing some results in about a week.

i re-read your first post in this thread, and i do think it might be possible that fred has had some lasting effects from the very rough start of his life/the medical issues he's been through. that your other cats all seem protective of fred seems to point to this too. cats can sense when another cat seems a bit "off" of the norm, and i've read where other people have posted that another of their cats has taken to helping the cat that seems to need a little extra looking after. it may be that your fred will develop a close bond with one of your other cats, and will learn to rely on the other cat in some ways. does fred seem to be particularly close with one of your cats more so than the others?

 

[lcws]

Thanks again!  

Actually, they all seem about the same with Fred, and he with them.   No particular one stands out.   Even my "bully" cat who tormented the others as kittens does not bother him, so I believe you're right, I believe they know something's up.   Cats have such keen intuition that way.    Lately Fred has started acting weird toward US -- when we pick him up.   Now, he loves us, it seems (especially my husband) and loves to be petted and to jump in his lap and snuggle.   But lately if either one of us try to pick him up, he goes into panic mode and starts flailing around and scratching us - I don't think he's trying to be vicious, but it's like something snaps in his brain - kind of that "fight or flight" thing, and he instinctively just loses it.   He can't even be subdued by holding by the scruff of the neck.   Now, that's a last resort of course, but even my 18 pound bully cat goes limp when we grab the back of that thick neck.        Not Fred.    He continues to fight & fight and needless to say it's next to impossible to give him a bath, even though he does not clean himself and we have to; I have many puncture wounds on my lasts as a result of this.        I've never dealt with a kitten like Fred, and I do believe he's just "not right" and may never be.    He's actually going back to the vet tomorrow because his eyes are getting that "weak" look again starting to get goopy.   I'm afraid we're in for a lifelong battle with special Fred, but in spite of all this, he's really sweet.....I wish I knew what to do to help him......I absolutely plan to try the feliway though - I feel like there's certainly no harm to be done and who knows?   Maybe it will help calm him anyway, when he goes into his panic mode.    Thank you so much for your advice & input, I really appreciate it.