About To Give Birth

[Sarthur2]

Thank you for your kind words.

They can be on the bed if there is no danger of the kittens getting squished or rolling off the bed. They are in a box, right? The gate around it sounds good.

I think you said that your dog is on a very low dose of medicine. I know how hard it is when a pet is temporarily displaced by another. Make sure he gets his walks and extra attention.

Mom's stools are loose because she ate 4 placentas. You can put probiotics in her baby food, but her stools should be firm again within 24 hours.

 

[susan d]

Hi OhMyGoodness,another stressful day yesterday! Before I completely banned my dog from the bed by gating it off, I stopped by the vet to discuss it with him. I won't bore you with all the details,except to say that he cautioned me about shutting her out completely,and suggested I maybe alternate time spent on the bed between the dog and kittens. It then occurred to me that if I got something like a crib or baby playpen and put it on the bed,everyone could be up there,and most importantly,safe. I went over to Petco,and they had a caged enclosure,of which I got the large size,and brought it home and set it up on the bed I put several of my pareos(sarongs-I live in them!),over it in an effort to disguise the stark caged appearance. It measures about 3'x2' and is PERFECT! I got the 2 door version so I could easily keep it open for her to not feel trapped,but could easily close it whenever I leave the bed,or when Chammy is up on the bed,peering intensely,as she is right now,into it

Needless to say,mama was hesitant. I had sprayed Feliway into it,but that seemed little comfort to her. She was very nervous about it,and I just kept softly looking her in the eyes,and promised with all my heart that she could come and go,and that I was only keeping she and the babies safe. I trusted that she would understand it,and it did not take her long to trust that

Doesn't sound too stressful,right? Well.when I got home with the crate I went over to check on them,and there were only TWO kittens in with her I had been so ready to just collapse,having gotten very little sleep for the last several nights,being in a constant state of tension,and having found what seemed to be a very workable solution . I looked all through the nesting materials,and no kitten!!! OMG,no way! I live in a studio as a temporary measure as I find another place to live,so not only is it small,but there are boxes,in various states of unpacking and rearranging, everywhere- including half of the closet where the nest is Lol,it had been crowded,but after adding a very large cat tree,setting up my grooming table so she could look out the window,then blocking off 1/3 of the remainder for the nest,it is very crowded! I didn't know if she had hidden the baby or if it had wandered off,but I was going to have to look through all of it- very carefully, to find it before the dog did. Roughly 3 hrs. later I found the little angel at the back of that closet,at the complete opposite end,amongst some shoes. I have never been so relieved! He/she had crawled behind some boxes- 5' plus-over some Uggs,then come to rest there

I had a very poignant realization yesterday morning as I came across a stuffed toy I had gotten for Chammy a couple of months back. It is a tree stump with holes in at,and 3 or 4 small squirrels you put in it and let the dog have the fun of pulling them out. As I picked up one of the little squirrels I realized Chammy wouldn't know the difference between the kittens and her toy-they're the same size and they squeak also,sounding very much like a kitten. The whole thing still makes me really sad, but gave me some perspective on something that had baffled me. When I walked in and found her upon the bed that day,she was looking at them exactly like they were toys-ears perked up,tail high and wagging,and a bark reserved for just occasions ............

 

[Sarthur2]

Oh my word. Thank goodness you found the kitten. It would not have made it for long without nursing.

Now that cat and kittens are safe, and the dog is included, is there room for YOU in the bed?

 

[susan d]

Lol,yes! Luckily,I have a king size bed with myself as the only human occupant

A new concern here- mama has got the worst smelling gas! And when she poops in the boxOMG I mean I can tolerate it(phew-barely!), I just want to be sure it's normal,and that I shouldn't be changing her food or something I thought her stoolsy had firmed up some after the initial placenta-related runniness,but maybe I need to pay closer attention? I just started noticing the gas yesterday. Maybe I should give her the probiotics? She doesn't eat a ton either. The one thing she eats most consistently is the kitten kibble,which I give to her dry. The canned food and baby food she takes some of,but leaves some. I have also cooked some frozen fresh fish for her the last couple of nights-as long as she's had this gas- which she ate all of the first night,then maybe 1/2 last night.

**** I just followed her to her box,and her stools are still very loose-maybe a tad better than post birth,but hardly. She's kind of looking around for 'a more comfy spot' of doing it. I would guess her stomach is upset. Should I go back to only baby food and kibble and give her some probiotics? This cannot be good for her given all the energy she's using with the nursing.

 

[Sarthur2]

I would stick with baby food and kibble, and take her off the KMR for now too. That may be upsetting her stomach. Give it a couple of days and see if things clear up.

 

[susan d]

Ok.thank you,that's what I'll do. If I can pick up some pure canned pumpkin,might that help also?

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, if she'll eat it. But do a day or two of just baby food and kibble first. Let her system clear everything else out.

 

[susan d]

Ok,will do Thanks again This is one of the little nuggets that just finished nursing

 

[Sarthur2]

Oh, so sweet!

 

[susan d]

Lol,they are ganging up on me! Yesterday,as another option to allow mama to come and go out of the nest,I engineered a way to allow that,but make it small enough that the dog couldn't get in. It's not really something I would leave if I were to go out ,but felt secure enough in to leave while I took a shower While I was still in the bathroom,I heard a loud squeal and rushed out to find mama had moved one of the babies down to the floor,in front of the closet-where she retreats to on some of her breaks,right next to where the dog had been sleeping,who was now at full alert on her feet! OMG I picked baby up and checked for any puncture wounds,of which I thankfully found none,and put it back in the nest. That was a scenario I had not anticipated New rule- mamas either in OR out of the nest. Once again I feel so grateful to have averted,what could have been, another tragedy. Could she have felt they were not safe since I left the small space in the crate door?

I'm curious- she seems to move only 1 kitten to a destination-without going back for the rest-starting when she first gave birth. I went outside for a few minutes,and she was at the door peering out at me. When I came back in,I was so surprised to see one of the newborns on the floor next to her. Then after the situation with the dog,of which I was still unaware,she moved just 1 kitten from the bed to the nest. Next time was when I could only find 2 of the 3,and found the other at the other end of the closet,which I'm pretty sure she had moved it there. I cannot tell you if it's the same kitten all the time- I'm usually too concerned with returning it to the nest,and I haven't differentiated them yet. Is that typical at all?

Also,not infrequently,I find one of the babies suckling on a lower teet while on its back. I always turn it over,but being on its back while nursing is not safe,is it? I would rather leave it to contentedly suckle,as my intrusion usually elicits cries of protest,but I assume it's as dangerous for them to nurse on their backs as it is for s to feed them in that position?

 

[Sarthur2]

Oh my word! You averted a near-disaster, thank goodness.

I am clueless as to why mama kitty only moves one baby. Maybe it's her favorite or least favorite?

You don't have to turn the kitten over. When he eats like that on his own he won't aspirate because he's in control of his suckling. It's different when we are feeding.

 

[susan d]

Funny about the one kitten thing,huh? That is good to know that it's ok for them to nurse on their backs- thank you

Hopefully we are on schedule here with some things at one week........Eyes have begun to open. I noticed the first starting the night before last- about 6 days. A second one has begun to open,and I trust #3 will follow soon. Starting a couple of days ago she is not spending as much time in the nest,nor is she eating as much. Kitten kibble is still her favorite,while she only seems to eat a few bites of whatever wet food is offered-whether it's Fancy Feast or baby food. I expected her to eat more while nursing,but maybe since she's not spending as much time with them? Is this on par for 8 days?

I finally got their weights the night before last. When they were born I only got the weights of 2 of them-and I can't tell you which 2, but they were 104g and 92g. That was last Monday before sunrise. The following Sunday at 6pm, they were 205 g, 202 g,and 224 g. Does that sound about right? And is it right that they seemed to nurse so much more that first week?

I think it's time I started thinking about a safe kitty litter to have around them? Is there a material that is best,or is clay ok? Anything I need to stay away from other than clumping? I know there's that training litter,but I'm wondering what would be safe to use in mama's box too?

 

[susan d]

Ugh,new issue today. She wants to move them! I had to put a cardboard barrier up the first few inches of the height of their wired crate because the kittens could get their heads stuck between the rungs,and it also gave the dog less access to them. It has been this way since I first set it up,and mama has attempted to remove them before,but I thought she had done it just in the night thinking it was a way to let herself out,then I would wake up and let her out.

Today is different . She is trying to remove them forcefully,and trying to gather the babies with her mouth. I would guess it is because since yesterday the dog has become more territorial by trying to control mamas access to a lot of things-including me and the crate. I guess the dog has gotten used to her med dosage,and its no longer got her as sedated. I can double the dosage,which I will do. I'm concerned because the only place she can move the kittens to is my 1 closet,and I KNOW they are safer in the crate next to me on the bed. Any thoughts?
Here is a vid of her at the nest crate.

 

[Sarthur2]

Mama is frustrated! The closet would be better for them if you can keep your dog away from the kittens.

 

[IndyJones]

Lol,yes! Luckily,I have a king size bed with myself as the only human occupant

A new concern here- mama has got the worst smelling gas! And when she poops in the boxOMG I mean I can tolerate it(phew-barely!), I just want to be sure it's normal,and that I shouldn't be changing her food or something I thought her stoolsy had firmed up some after the initial placenta-related runniness,but maybe I need to pay closer attention? I just started noticing the gas yesterday. Maybe I should give her the probiotics? She doesn't eat a ton either. The one thing she eats most consistently is the kitten kibble,which I give to her dry. The canned food and baby food she takes some of,but leaves some. I have also cooked some frozen fresh fish for her the last couple of nights-as long as she's had this gas- which she ate all of the first night,then maybe 1/2 last night.

**** I just followed her to her box,and her stools are still very loose-maybe a tad better than post birth,but hardly. She's kind of looking around for 'a more comfy spot' of doing it. I would guess her stomach is upset.

I would stop the fish if it's upsetting her system. Cats don't need fish anyways, it has mercury and other metals that aren't good for cats plus it can cause bladder problems.

 

[Sarthur2]

Have you been able to work something out yet with where to put everyone?

 

[susan d]

Sorry to have been so long............

Yes! I removed all the cardboard,propped the door open so she can come and go as she pleases,put soft blankets across the front, and not let the dog up on the bed. So far,so good after 24 hrs. I doubled the dogs med tonight,but it doesn't seem to be having a double affect. I will discuss it with the vet again tomorrow. I'm going to start taking her out for some special outings also. Today I had to leave for an appt.,and the only way I could feel secure was to leave mama and the kittens closed up inside of the crate.

I think she got so nervous because the dog was on the bed a lot,and even though I kept them safe by keeping the door shut when she was up here- everyone gets more anxious when she has eyes on them- especially her!

Also,I had picked up a kitten a couple of times- did that most likely contribute to her stress as well? That was just yesterday morning,and the evening prior,so they were about 8 days old,and their little eyes were open . I have not done it since yesterday morning,as part of the effort to make her feel secure.

 

[susan d]

IndyJones thank you! I had quit giving it to her,and she seems back to normal now. But I am curious- I did not know fish was not good for them! Before she got pregnant she loved fresh fish,and I loved giving it to her for a treat. Do I need to stop doing that altogether?

 

[Sarthur2]

I'm glad you've worked things out. Are you able to leave the crate in the bathroom with the door closed when you need to be gone?

I do agree that getting out with your dog for walks and other excursions is a good idea. I'm sure the situation is stressful for him too.

I don't recommend handling kittens except to weigh them or supplement them until after they are 3 weeks old. Moms just get too upset.

It's the mercury in some fish that is the issue. It can build up in the liver. A steady diet of fish is not recommended. My cats love fish and eat it frequently. Is your cat still eating the baby food?

 

[susan d]

I offer her a jar of baby food with 1t. of kmr and she eats 1/2-3/4 of it. Sometimes she will eat some Fancy Feast,other times she to just like the gravy. Her most consistent is still kitten kibble and she eats a fair amount of it. I fix her a small bowl of kmr-same thing- sometimes yes and others no. Should I be preparing that at the same ratio as it says for kittens? I've been diluting it more than that,but maybe I shouldn't?

The crate will not fit into my bathroom! And the little angels are already trying to climb out of it. OMG,they are so precious! And getting big! I am seriously in love x3 I will have to move them to a closed off area of the floor as they begin to move around. Do you think it would be ok to put the big kitty tree in with them? If for no other reason I need the space so I can move some boxes into the space that it now occupies