A scary first experience with Frontline Plus

[otto]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Actually, according to this Frontline is not OTC. Has anyone called and asked them? If this is the case, the OP needs to take it up with the store that sold the product. ..Better have the receipt.

Bayer allowed Advantage to go OTC in last spring - longer than 6 months ago.


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Thank you for the updated information!

So....the news circulated that Merial was putting frontline products as OTC stems from a survey, with intentions misunderstood, and they never intended this to happen.

That is a very important article and illustrates what I was saying earlier, that there are knock-offs meant to look like the genuine frontline product, and that on-line stores and box stores obtain the product illegally.

I urge you to read it, and it's links, Carolina.

I did look at yours, and have read them before. The fact that there are laws against these practices does not mean the practices have stopped. Bootleg and counterfeit flea products is big business and someone is getting rich through it, regardless of EPA laws.

Okay Bayer products went OTC I thought in February, but one article said March, either way, a little more than six months ago.

Advantage doses go by weight, which makes them even more dangerous, so I do question their decision to go OTC. In general I think consumers are not very good at judging a pet's weight.

Bottom line, in my opinion is these products, and any pet medications that are not supplements, and even some supplements, should be purchased at the vet clinic where the pet is being treated, regardless of their OTC status, and I will continue to advise people to do so.

People are so brainwashed into thinking on-line is cheaper, many don't even think to check prices with their vet.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by otto

Advantage doses go by weight, which makes them even more dangerous, so I do question their decision to go OTC. In general I think consumers are not very good at judging a pet's weight.

All of them use broad dosing like that, either by age or weight. So there's always the chance for an overdose.

IMO, no one should ever "judge" their pets weight. Get a scale or take the cat to the vet to get them weighed. Never guess in these situations and know your pet's weight anyways. (though, I can be pretty darn accurate at guessing - I still don't trust my guesses)

My vet no longer sells Advantage. Likely due to Bayer going OTC with it and not wanting to have to compete price wise... though he always had good prices on it, only a couple dollars more than even online prices. In which case, there's your shipping or taxes.

I have had one cat react minorly to Advantage years ago. He checked out fine on blood work after, luckily, and I didn't use Advantage again on him until last August. And in that case I had to split some 9lb+ doses (all that I had left and couldn't buy more from my vet) down for my 7 and 8lb female cats, I under dosed him just in case.

Probably not ideal, but my vet would have suggested a large tube for him for just about anything because he's 10 1/2lbs.

I really think they should offer better dosing sizes and guidelines for all flea topicals. It might just prevent some of the OD issues that people run into even with legitimate products purchased from their vet.
Maybe I'm really far off in thinking this, but I think that in older cats if they absolutely must be dosed with a topical and the owner doesn't regularly check their liver (or even if they do) that there should be a dosing guideline that says to give them a smaller dose much like there is with humans that have liver issues and need medications.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by otto

I urge you to read it, and it's links, Carolina.

I did look at yours, and have read them before. The fact that there are laws against these practices does not mean the practices have stopped. Bootleg and counterfeit flea products is big business and someone is getting rich through it, regardless of EPA laws.

otto, I read and re-read, and do understand.
The first thing that I will agree to disagree is, that what you are calling Couterfeit, is not. What you are calling counterfeit, should be called actually Diverted Products. And yet I can not prove, nobody will convince me that the manufacturers themselves are not involved behind it. IMHO, it is just not possible. It is a very very old practice...
Allow me to explain why... and the differences in between a diverted product and counterfeited product. A counterfeit, well, is just that - fake, and that is what the EPA took action against in 2004 - we heard about it, we would hear about it... LOUD and CLEAR. Lets take Petco for example. They sell Frontline, and have 950 stores, plus online sales.
How do you think they get their stock?
Diversion is when a product is sold outside of its official channel of sales. Sometimes it is done on the black market, but in mass market like this, with chain stores such as Petco, for example, much (let me emphasize MUCH) more often than not, the manufacturer is involved and does not make it public in order to protect its official sales channel, which in this case is the Veterinarian Market. So, they sell to them via brokers.
The reason why it would be pretty much impossible to get the product on the black market through a vet, say selling over inventory, is the massive quantities on the purchase orders...
Say each 950 stores order a minimum of a case of 12 of ea SKU plus 30% for back up inventory for each 950 store a month. Are you trying to tell me a manufacturer would not notice something like that?

IMHO, they do this themselves.... and then deny it...
If you are familiar with Paul Mitchel, this is exactly what he does - this is how he sells to walmart, CVS, Ralphs, Krogger, Walgreens.... But you open a magazine, or watch TV, and there he is, saying that you can only buy his products from a salon otherwise it can be fake. Paul Mitchel sells to all those mass stores himself, and that is a fact. Very, very well know in the beauty industry, and it has become a joke...
So... A diverted product, is not, by any means, a counterfeit product. There is a huge difference in between the two.
On that, I will gladly agree to disagree with you.

 

[strange_wings]

^Oh, I have no doubt that the products are real. You can buy them anywhere you want if you wish as long as you call the company and verify the lot and EPA number. But by doing that Merial call pull stunts like this. In fact selling to stores, and cheaper, is probably one of their methods for getting around issues that happen with the product they sell to vets and that they have to cover. ...But I'm a suspicious person when it comes to big companies.


To the OP: I hope you caught my mention of taking this up with Petco.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by jennyranson

Sorry for misusing the word 'allergy'. I was using it in the sense that everyone (OK,idiots like me!) does when I mean sensitivity. My Bonaparte is sensitive to a number of things, including metal, that bring him out in rashes, and even the vet uses the term 'allergy'.

Jenny, I'd be in the "idiot" group as well as I would likely use the term allergy and therefore not be "technically correct", but the rest of the idiots in the world like me would understand what I meant.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Jenny, I'd be in the "idiot" group as well as I would likely use the term allergy and therefore not be "technically correct", but the rest of the idiots in the world like me would understand what I meant.

Even many who do know that would still understand

...

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Jenny, I'd be in the "idiot" group as well as I would likely use the term allergy and therefore not be "technically correct", but the rest of the idiots in the world like me would understand what I meant.

I simply wish for people to learn the difference. A straight allergy is bad but generally easier to predict - if something always gives you a rash, chances are it will give you a rash when you're in contact with it again (unless something in your body changes, which is always likely). Chemical sensitivities are different. They can super sensitize the body so that when you do come across those allergens that would naturally only mildly bother you, you don't know how you will respond - you may have a serious anaphylactic reaction. Plus chemical sensitivities can make you ill in their own way.

I didn't mean to imply anyone was an idiot, just simply wanted to clarify in much the same way many others do on here.


I wonder how the OP's cat is doing? I don't suspect they made much progress during this last week with Merial or Petco, so I hope they have better luck this week or soon.

 

[hal900x]

Hi all. Wow, quite a bit of discussion here! As for "Sweetfeet", she appears to be doing fine. Back to her spoiled, sassy self. However, after reading various comments here I am not going to assume that appearances are enough. I'll be scheduling a Vet appointment for a liver panel and whatever additional tests the Vet recommends.

Now that I've heard the debate about OTC vs Vet, Merial's urgency in getting my remaining doses makes more sense. Perhaps they wanted to verify the product's authenticity. I assume it was authentic, since they didn't say otherwise, and were able to confirm the lot number on my product.

I did catch the suggestion to take it up with Petco. I'll have to think on this. Not because it isn't a good idea, but because dealing with these mega-corporations is a tiring battle indeed, and, unless you happen to have plenty of resources (time and money, mainly) usually a losing one. It took all I had to tussle with Merial; these types of interactions are extremely draining and depressing for me.

As for allergic vs chemical sensitivity and so forth, that I already knew. As an earlier poster said, it is a pesticide. A toxin. I'm sure some complicated science went into the delivery system for this particular poison, such that it is intended to take up residence in the cat's sebum glands and not enter the bloodstream of the cat. But poison is poison, and in retrospect I simply had too much faith in the scientists who developed Frontline Plus, and in the company that markets it. Caveat Emptor and all that...I have no doubt that FDA regulations are orders of magnitude more permissive when it comes to animals. In retrospect it seems obvious that there could be problems, but hindsight is 20/20.

It's a tough choice, whether to use a product containing toxins or go with something less toxic but potentially less effective (and more work). I knew about diatomaceous earth for cockroaches, been around for many years. I wasn't aware it was an option for fleas as well. I'll do a bit of research on that, thanks.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by Hal900x

It's a tough choice, whether to use a product containing toxins or go with something less toxic but potentially less effective (and more work). I knew about diatomaceous earth for cockroaches, been around for many years. I wasn't aware it was an option for fleas as well. I'll do a bit of research on that, thanks.

It'll work on anything with an exoskeleton, and on gastropods, too.

I understand about not wanting to fight with Petco - there may be a class action somewhere for this, who knows?

As for Frontline - fipronil was actually developed in the mid-eighties for use on crops and pests. (hence why fleas have been becoming resistant to it) It still gets used on our food crops. The EPA handles this, or should. With everyone that was voted in recently and some with their interests in cutting back on the EPA's control of things like pesticides, water, drilling/waste, etc, don't look for them to do much about all the trouble with flea topicals lately.

I'm glad to hear that your cat is doing better.

She really should have regular blood work anyways since she's an older girl. I hope that upcoming tests and several future ones look good.

 

[sharky]

Having worked in Petcos ( not for) I would suggest talking with the Store manager .. They may not be able to do much but they will talk with district and regional... Yes going after the big corp is hard but starting at the store level is easy... Let the manager do the work for you