13 yr old lost weight, is throwing up a lot...

[otto]

I'm so glad Lulu is eating. I'm sorry about the diagnosis, but CKD is not a a death sentence at all. Many of us have cared for kitties in kidney failure and they have lived excellent quality lives for a good long time. Putting some water in her wet food is very very good for her. You want to keep her on wet food, hydration is so important for CKD cats.

You'll most likely learn to do sub q fluids at home (it still infuriates me that the vet didn't even give her fluids yesterday), it is not hard to do once you get used to it, though it can be a bit stressful at first. The good news is you've got lots of support right here!

I'll be watching for updates.

Lulu :heart3:

 

[lizzimi]

I called the vet today. She was really nice! It was the one that runs the place, I've never met her. She said that her kidney levels are 3-4 times what they should be. She recommended bringing her in to get fluids which would mean Lulu would have to stay there for two days and stay on an IV, and then they would check the kidney levels again. I don't think she will do that. Lulu hates the vet and I don't know if she will be okay with being there for two days hooked up to an IV alone. It costs around $300. Lulu is improving, she is eating small amounts at a time (her choices in food is changing daily now- frustrating!) no more barfing. She is drinking loads of water which my vet said is her trying to cleanse her kidneys herself. 

But here is my question. If I get her on fluids, is that going to help her or is it something that she is going to need done frequently? Like, is it going to improve her condition? Is getting her on fluids a life or death situation? I will do everything I can to come up with the money if it will make her feel better... but if it isn't needed then I would rather not put her through the trauma. She is the worst cat to take to the vet ever.  Also, I would rather get the fluids at home (although I don't know if I could do it. My sister is going to med school though, maybe she could help!) just because it would be a little less stressful to Lulu. 

Thanks so much for the support, I don't really have anyone to go to for cat advice. 

 

[otto]

Fluids can be given at home. You will do it subcutaneously, under the skin. (sub-q) It can be a little stressful at first for both cat and human, but everyone adjusts after a few weeks. Fluids can prolong a CKD kitty's life for many years, with excellent quality of life. Without fluids....well, the kidneys fail faster, and the cat feels sicker, all the time. The fluids really do improve quality of life.

For cost, learning to do it at home, then you find a local human pharmacy who will order in the cases of lactated ringers for you. Your vet writes you a prescription, and you bring the prescription to the pharmacy. I saved hundreds a month this way. One bag of fluids, at my vet was $22. One BAG. One CASE of fluids (12 bags) at the pharmacy was $24 for the whole case.

Most cats do feel stressed at the vet. But..if the vet feels she needs a critical therapeutic IV treatment, you may want to put her through it, that is, if you can afford it. If you just can't come up with that much money, I would suggest you bring her in for one treatment, and have them teach you how to do the sub-q at home.

You'll notice a big difference in her, when she gets fluids. And...that's the thing. Most cats don't take very long to make the connection between feeling better and the getting of the fluids at home, and so they learn to accept it because they know they will feel better after.

 

[gooned]

It sounds like they want to work on and monitor her for a couple of days. This would probably mean IV for nourishment as well as fluids. After that, they would have a pretty good idea as to what stage her kidney disease has progressed. Regardless, they most certainly will recommend a diet change to a low phosphorus diet. The Vet may recommend a low phosphorus CKD food such as Hills or Royal Canin. If so, please try the wet food first as dry food makes little sense for a CKD kitty. If you can find it, try Solid Gold Chicken, Turkey, White Fish & Liver is high quality and low phosphorus (.55%). And some of the Meow Mix wets are fairly low.

If you don't think the vet stay is possible, giving sub-q fluids at home is not difficult. You can find several videos on youtube.com. The Vet will provide you with the kit and recommended dosage. The dosage can variy from daily to weekly. After a week or two, the kidney should be tested again to see how well the fluids are working. You will probably know how well it is working by her behavior. 

Here are two links for phosphorus levels in wet food. The 'best' food for CKD kitties are listed first.

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Phosphorus 9-22-12.pdf

http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

The important things are plenty of fluids (wet food), low phosphorous, and a lot of loving.

Good luck

Edit: My bad. I changed the home fluids to sub-q

 

[otto]

It sounds like they want to work on and monitor her for a couple of days. This would probably mean IV for nourishment as well as fluids. After that, they would have a pretty good idea as to what stage her kidney disease has progressed. Regardless, they most certainly will recommend a diet change to a low phosphorus diet. The Vet may recommend a low phosphorus CKD food such as Hills or Royal Canin. If so, please try the wet food first as dry food makes little sense for a CKD kitty. If you can find it, try Solid Gold Chicken, Turkey, White Fish & Liver is high quality and low phosphorus (.55%). And some of the Meow Mix wets are fairly low.

If you don't think the vet stay is possible, giving IV fluids at home is not difficult. You can find several videos on youtube.com. The Vet will provide you with the kit and recommended dosage. The dosage can variy from daily to weekly. After a week or two, the kidney should be tested again to see how well the fluids are working. You will probably know how well it is working by her behavior. 

Here are two links for phosphorus levels in wet food. The 'best' food for CKD kitties are listed first.

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Phosphorus 9-22-12.pdf
http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

The important things are plenty of fluids (wet food), low phosphorous, and a lot of loving.

Good luck

Just one clarification here. They won't be giving IV fluids at home, they will be giving sub-q fluids at home. IV means intravenous, into the vein, and is done at the vet by professionals. Sub-q means under the skin, and that is what people do for home treatment.

 

[gooned]

But here is my question. If I get her on fluids, is that going to help her or is it something that she is going to need done frequently? Like, is it going to improve her condition? Is getting her on fluids a life or death situation? I will do everything I can to come up with the money if it will make her feel better... but if it isn't needed then I would rather not put her through the trauma.

Cats are notoriously dehydrated. Sub-q fluids are administered quite often for a variety of conditions when the normal appetite is affected such as trauma and surgery. If you can't take her in, buy a fluid kit from the Vet and get your sister to help. But try to take her in for the first time so they can show you how it is done. Our Vet charges $12 for the kit and $10 for each time they administer the fluids - usually performed by an assistant. Depending on the dosage, the fluids can be used for multiple doses over a week or so. 

You will know almost immediately if it is going to help her. 

 

[lizzimi]

I'm trying to remember exactly what the vet said- it was something along the lines of "her kidney values are very high, but that could either be from her being old or it could be kidney failure, what we can do is put her on IV for two days which would flush out the kidneys and then retest her and see what her kidney levels are after being flushed out". So I don't know what to do. I think I will ask them about the sub-q fluids because I honestly can't see Lulu staying there. I'm afraid that if I make her stay there she won't eat, plus she doesn't even let the vet TOUCH her, how is she going to handle sitting in a cage for two days with an IV? She broke her paw a couple years ago and got out of every cast they put her in. They ended up putting the cast way up her arm and she still got it off! She has very little tolerance for anything relating to her health >.< 

I have to drop off the stool and urine samples still so I wonder if I could talk to the vet in person when I do that. If not I have their email, they are always busy during the day or I would call. 

Thanks so much for the list. I need to go Kitty food shopping now. She is eating almost two little cans of food a day now plus a rather large amount of treats and she isn't barfing. I'm going to look into the IV fluids some more. Thanks!

 

[lizzimi]

BLue buffalo is on the list of "haven't responding yet"s . I was thinking about trying their wet food since the big can is on sale for 1.10 right now plus I have coupons. I guess I'll email them and try finding out.

 

[gooned]

I believe most of the Blue Buffalo wet food is pretty high in phosphorous (>1%). Watch out for those treats too. Why don't you call the Vet's office and ask for some recommendations.

 

[lizzimi]

Just an update... I brought in urine/stool samples to the vet three weeks ago and wanted to talk to a vet... there was none there. They were open for another 4 hours and 0/5 vets were there. So I've been waiting for the results back since then, I emailed them a few days ago asking where the results were and today I got an angry message on my answering machine saying "We just got your email. We've been calling your cellphone continuously and you never picked up". So I don't know what number they have, they never once called my cellphone and besides they are supposed to be calling my house, not the cell. They didn't say the results or anything, just that the vet still wants to put her on an IV.

I don't have the money. I asked about alternate methods and still get the same response. IV only. They won't do a sub-q because it;s not as effective. And doing nothing is more effective how?! They don't want to treat until she gets an IV and another blood test... so what, another $500 before I can spend more $ to finally treat the problem?! Her blood test made it obvious that she has kidney failure. The levels were extremely high due to dehydration, but even if she wasn't dehydrated they would have still been high. My student loans are due next month and I don't even have enough in my savings to cover a year. Plus I have to buy groceries, car insurance, everything.

So now I have to call back again tomorrow morning. After that experience with the bad vet I really don't even want to go there again... I complained to the head vet and she said "yeah, we get that a lot about him". Why is he still working there then?! 

But anyway.

Lulu is doing great. She's eating, her energy level is back, she's a happy kitty. She's only thrown up once in the past three weeks and it was only foam. She's still drinking a lot but she's not guarding the bowl anymore. She's pretty much back to normal. The vet doesn't hear that though. They just hear "I haven't put her on an IV yet". I'm so annoyed.

 

[just mike]

Thank you so much for the great update.  Woo Hoo!!!  Sounds like she's on the mend!
 

 

[otto]

I'm glad Lulu is feeling better, and thank you for letting us know. I hope you are shopping around for a new vet clinic. That place sounds like every pet owner's nightmare.

 

[debbie heughan]

My 14 year old cat is doing the same exact symptoms and has been to vet twice for bladder infection this past year. While she is taking antibiotics and a few weeks after, she is fine and not throwing up.  She has been checked for kidneys, diabetics, thyroid, ect.  Everything is normal. They said only thing wrong was a slight heart murmur.  She is very energetic and very vocal about wanting more  food.  She drinks a lot of water too.  Iams brand wet food in tiny expensive cans that are grain free seem to stay down the best.  But at 80Cents a can and 3 cans a day, it is breaking me.  She acts like she is starving and has even taken the dogs food from them.  I wish I knew the answer.