10 year old Persian - unsafe to have babies?

[scamperfarms]

Drakken you are getting good advice here. Please spay your girl. Even with kittens you WONT get another one of her. you just WONT. You say you love your girl..and yet your willing to possibly have her die having kittens? and with an older cat that percentage is WAY UP there.

I wont touch the topic of your statement that persians call less than other cats...

Get your girl spayed and enjoy her. Just because other cats have given birth at 20 years old does NOT make it RIGHT. You dont know their circumstances, how much vet care they required so so forth.

And your arguement that she will be better because she hasnt had them before. Actually it will be very very stressfull for her. Being a mother the first time for animals is very hard. Even if they become preg. I know several people who have spent thousdands upon thousands to get their 20 year old maiden mare bred. and it never happened. One gal got her bred..but lost the mare and the foal and has regretted it ever since.

Than their is the topic of. where will you find this male? Forgive me If i missed it but is this female papered? I think i recall seeing she is not. No purebred breeder will breed their persian male to your girl..if they are responsible. So are you just going to randomly get some boy? thats not preserveing the line. nor is it healthy..or even responsible.

Its hard to let go. but you have too. the well being of the cat, not you is at stake here.

 

[wellingtoncats]

Yes I realise that Longhair cats come into call a lot less often then Shorthair cats but mate, they still do - three or four times a year. Multiply that by then, and that's a possiblility of her calling 40 times. How dangerous is that for Shadow.

Do you have a registered prefix?

 

[scamperfarms]

Before deciding to breed from your female (queen) ask yourself the following questions :
Why do I want to breed?
Have I the time, patience and understanding?
Can I afford it - equipment, stud fees, vet bills, extra food - to name just a few of the extras?
Have I researched the subject thoroughly?
Have I discussed this with the experts (other breeders)?
How will my human family feel about the idea, will they agree?
Will I be able to sell my kittens? (Perhaps there are already many established breeders in the area).
If you answer NO to any of these questions then make an appointment with your vet and have her spayed.

<snip>The normal gestation period is about 65 days. Many queens do not know how to cope with their first or subsequent litters, so that your absence at this crucial time could cost you the litter and possibly the life of your cat.

 

[wellingtoncats]

Also on the '20 and 30' year old cats having kitten. Well how irrisponsible is that, think about how the type would have changed in that time.

You are backyard breeding, just breeding kittens for the want of kittens. Not because you want to improve the breed.

It's sad and I hope you take our advice, and your vets

 

[solaritybengals]

Maybe the thought of your cat being elderly is a little scary? The thought that she won't be with you forever is intimidating and breeding is the only way you see a way to continue your love? Even with many good years left in her the 10 year marker can hit home a little. I felt this way about my cat Clover as he broached 10. He was my only cat and the thought he wouldn't be with me forever would make me feel sick. To make a long story short he lives with my father because of college and is happy there (now 12). I have finished college and now have 3 cats. They are each wonderful in their own way. Just know that there will always be a cat for you out there.

 

[wellingtoncats]

Also is anything goes wrong with her during the pregnancy (since she is so aged) then not only will you lose the kittens but you will lose her too

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by drakken

Cats are physiologically different from humans in terms of reproduction

Be this as it may, the sad fact is that I believe you are risking far more than you stand to gain should you proceed with this breeding. There are way too many unknown variables. Assuming she first experienced estrus at a year old and assuming she has experienced at least two estrus cycles per year, that would put her on at least 18 cycles of estrus without being allowed to breed. Most responsible breeders do not allow a queen to go more than 3 or 4 cycles, 5 at most, before breeding due to the increased risk of pyometra, a potentially life-threatening condition of the uterus. Additionally, over time, the ovaries of a queen can and often DO become polycystic - the ovum can become damaged. This would result in kittens who are not normally formed in utero and are delivered either horribly physically deformed or stillborn. Add to this the fact that we do not know how she would carry the pregnancy since she has never done so before, her age alone would preclude her from an ethical breeding program. Additionally, we have to factor in her own health ... has she been screened for the genetic issues known to be inherent to the Persian breed (I am thinking PKD here)? If she has been or is found to be positive for carrying this gene, then to breed her would simply be reproducing a gene the Persian breeders are going absolutely nuts to eradicate.

Any pregnancy is a risk, yet breeders do it all the time. I would like to have baby Shadows, and if I found a safe way for her to have kittens I would do so.

I respectfully disagree. You make it sound as though we just merrily throw two intact cats into a room and let them have at it. Breeders, at least the responsible ones, weigh ALL risks associated with a planned breeding to determine whether or not the risk is "acceptable". Given the fact that your girl is of an advanced age and it is unknown whether or not she will gestate/deliver smoothly, I wouldn't be comfortable assuming the level of risk involved with breeding her. Not only do you risk losing the entire litter, but you also risk losing the very sweet girl you so desperately wanted to see in the kittens! Do you ~really~ want to do this?

Some would argue that because she hasnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t had the stress of litters through her life, she would be in better physical condition to have them. But on the other hand, perhaps thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s why the cats in their 20s were able to still have litters.

You keep referring to cats who have had litters at the age of 20+. Can you please, as a special favor to me, cite your sources? I would like to see where this information comes from in order to determine for myself whether or not I think it is a bunch of hooey, which I suspect it is. While it ~may~ be true that a very small number of cats have had litters at advanced ages, I tend to think this is the exception rather than the rule.

Perhaps finding a small male cat as mate would help alleviate the risk?

Perhaps, but you then open up an even bigger can of potential problems. First, you would have to find a breeder willing to let her stud stand service for your girl - you may have a very difficult time doing this because no responsible breeder is going to let your girl anywhere near one of their studs. But, for the sake of arguement, let's just say you DO find someone willing ... there are many things to consider here as well:

Is the stud healthy? Up to date on all vaccinations and found to be both external and internal parasite-free? Has he been screened for genetic issues known to the breed? Was he found not to carry the gene? Unless the answers to these questions can be confirmed in the positive, proceeding with this breeding is IMO, unethical.

I respect professional advice, but itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not like I have just had a sudden whim to want kittens. Of course the vet will say the generally accepted rule of thumb. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not trying to convince myself, but the evidence of 20 year old cats giving birth gave me hope. I would desperately love to have baby Shadows , it has been a hope I have had for the last 10 years and then suddenly all hope is bashed when Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m told my cat, who is the perfect picture of health, should not have a litter because itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s too late.

If you respect professional advice and even went so far as to seek it (and pay for it) in a consult from your vet (the vet who knows your girl's medical history the best) then my advice to you is (again) to listen to it. It was not given as the generally accepted rule of thumb. It was YOUR vet, telling you that YOUR cat should not be bred.

And again, I respectfully request that this "evidence" you allude to be cited openly here. I want to read it for myself.

Drakken, I don't want to dash the hope you have built up here, but honestly, it IS too late - dig deep and ask yourself if this is something that feels right to you. My sincere hope is that it doesn't feel right. Grasping at straws is sometimes a desperate action and making decisions when one is desperate often results in tragedy. Please, please, please - reconsider.

 

[drakken]

One of my sources for older cats giving birth was here:

http://www.messybeast.com/longevity.htm

Be this as it may, the sad fact is that I believe you are risking far more than you stand to gain should you proceed with this breeding.

I'm seriously considering the case for now just getting her spayed.

It was YOUR vet, telling you that YOUR cat should not be bred.

This is the first time my cat has been to that vet. Her previous vet was in the Middle East.

Drakken you are getting good advice here. Please spay your girl. Even with kittens you WONT get another one of her. you just WONT.

I realise this, but it would be nice to have a continued line of cats (not talking pedigree here) with kittens whose parents you knew and with similar characteristics.

Be spiteful. You are being selfish.

Plebayo, being insulting just negates any constructive critism you may have. Try to be a little more objective when arguing a point.

The thing is you asked for advice and opinions. So, you got advice and opinions. You won't convince any of us that we're wrong on the advice we gave.

I wasn't trying to convince anyone they're giving bad advice, I'm sure most of you have more knowledge about cats than I do. Most of the advice I'm getting here is really appreciated, even if it's not positive feedback. =(

 

[silverbook]

Originally Posted by drakken

One of my sources for older cats giving birth was here:

http://www.messybeast.com/longevity.htm

=(

But even that source describes some of the cats who did give birth so old as having died soon after or the kittens not surviving.

I do hope you do indeed get her spayed.

 

[wellingtoncats]

Good to hear you are considering getting her spayed. So you were just planning to back yard breed her? That's so sad - and I doubt you would have found someone willing to lend their stud to you.

 

[plebayo]

Plebayo, being insulting just negates any constructive critism you may have. Try to be a little more objective when arguing a point.

I am not being insulting, you asked for oppinions, and I am telling you how I feel. It's the truth, and there is no way around it. You are breeding your cat for your needs, not hers, and if someone is willing to risk their cats life for what THEY soley want, yeah, that is selfish behavior.

 

[imagyne]

Okay Ya'll... point made....