10 month old kitten with constant diarrhoea

[taxido]

Hi

I am in the UK where it is currently 6.45am.  I would appreciate some help.  Firstly just to say I have had rescue cats all my life, including 2 tiny kittens, but have never experienced what is happening now.

Sammy is now 10 months old, and we took him on from a rescue centre specialising in feral cats, two months ago.  The lady fostering him had many other cats and kittens in her home, and told me he had been born in her home.  She said that all the cats and kittens in her home had free run of the flat, but were locked in cages at night to keep them quiet!

Sammy looked in superb condition (and still does) - bright eyes, lovely silky coat (he is a domestic black and white cat).  We did not visit her home to collect him, although we were sent photos of it, and saw Sammy etc.  She brought him directly to us.  My husband did most of the talking, but unfortunately the lady was rather excitable and had a thick German accent which was sometimes hard to understand, although it was clear that she adores cats in every easy.

Sammy came here to live with Timmy our old rescue cat, who is 15 years old.  From day one, the two cats got on, and by day two, they were sleeping together, so there are no issues for us to worry about here.  To make things better all round, we also installed Feliway.

From day one, I was aghast by the size and smell of Sammy's stools. To me, they seemed the size of a large dog!  Also, he is very enthusiastic  and active in covering his faeces, which is great, but these stank the whole house out and broke apart all over the place in the litter box.

My husband said Sammy had been given a bowl of Royal Canin Kitten 36 kibble every night to eat.  We have never been clear what else he has been fed; the lady gave us a bag of Royal Canin Kitten 36 kibble and 2 pouches - one of Felix kitten food,and and one of Whiskas kitten food before she left.  I told her that I fed Timmy on Sheba, and Sammy would be eating that, to which she agreed and said it was great food.

We started Sammy on Sheba and kept up with his Royal Canin Kitten 36 day kibble.  After a couple of days he started diarrhoea with blood and mucus on the top of it.  I researched this on the internet, and my first thought was worms.  The medical history booklet given to us with Sammy's history on it, showed he had been treated with Stronghold flea treatment twice, and on contacting the lady, she said she had to check with the vet as to whether he had been treated for worms as she did not know.  She has never come back to us on this.  Also, she seems to have fed him an assortment of wet foods, rather than one - I suppose because she has so many cats of different ages.

We took Sammy off Sheba, and the Royal Canin Kitten 36 kibble, and put both cats on Encore, which is a very pure complimentary adult cat food, and Hilife Tempt Me which is another pure adult cat food, but a complete one.  We also feed plain boiled chicken to both cats.

Early this week, Timmy had a bout of diarrhoea, which just might have been coincidence.  I took him off these foods, and put him on Felix in Jelly little trays, and it stopped overnight.  I tried Sammy on the same, but it was of no use.  I also tried him on Origin dry food, where I gave him just 6 biscuits - he ate them and had the most horrendous diarrhoea about 20 minutes later.  Things went downhill from there.

Clearly, all round, everything has gone wrong for poor Sammy, and we aim to put it right.  He has been to the vet, where the vet was told to test for everything in a fecal sample.  This came back as negative.  The vet gave pro kolin for 3 days, which did not help either.  Recently Sammy has had continuous diarrhoea, dark brown to light brown, no blood, but farting lots.  For the past 2 days, he has been in the litter box many times, usually a short time after eating.  I am now fasting him for 24 hours, in the hope that this will give his system a rest.  We have also bought some more Royal Canin Kitten 36 kibble as he has eaten this in the past.  As I have already said, I have had no trouble in the past with feeding kittens, I just fed them commercial pet food.

Apart from this aspect, he is a lively, bouncy boy and you would never know anything was amiss, although he is still a little nervous around us, and does not like visitors and hides away when anyone calls.  Both our cats are strictly indoor cats.

With regards to how we got Sammy, I was looking at rescue centres on the internet (the one we got him from is a reputable one with well know patrons etc.)  and saw a lovely little black and white female cat.  She is the cat I wanted, however, the German lady said he had gone, and she had his brother - which was Sammy.

I am wondering now, if she knew he was "problematical"all along.

Sorry this is so long, but I would be grateful for some advice.

Many thanks.

 

[ritz]

Oh, seems like you're having a time of this!  Thank you for all your hard work with this kitten and other cats.

It appeas that Sammy's gut is not happy.  I think fasting for 24 hours is the right way to go.  Then I'd give him a boiled chicken + rice for a few days, most cats can handle this combination fairly well.  Not nutritionally complete but soothing to the stomach.  (If Sammy reacts negatively to this, then you may be looking at an allergy to chicken or rice.)

My suggestions include the following:  put both cats on a human probiotic, ProKlin may not have enough live cultures plus it has some other questionable (to me) ingredients.  10 billion live cultures is best (10 billion sounds like a lot  but human acidophilus supplements have this amount.) Slippery elm (powder) is also good (available at a health food type of store). 

Like most dry food, Royal Canin Kitten 36 kibble is full of carbohydrates (grains) which cats do not need and which some cats are allergic to.  Encore's ingredients seem really good except for the rice--which flavor did you feed?

You might consider feeding a novel protein--one Sammy has never had and like Encore, very limited ingredients.  I suspect some type of allergy for grain, protein or even additives.

Finally,  I'd call your vet back and tell him what you've done so far and the results.  Fecal tests are not infallible; there are false positives (and, false negatives).  I'd take in another stool sample and have them retest for really unusual type of worms, which he could have caught from one of the other animals living with the woman (did she have any dogs)?

Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[StefanZ]

Ritz advices here are very good.

If it isnt any parasites, so you must look at next possibilities. Allergy for something, or even some type of  gut disease..

One small extra advice: rice is often used as a soothing food, like Ritz told.  Do cook it well, ie way too much, so to speak.

If he manages this rice diet, you may try with James Wellbeloved serie, they are supposed to be kind for cats with allergic tendencies, and yes, they do contain much rice.

Welcome to our Forums!

Good luck!

 

[rockmum]

Hello speaking as a sufferer of Crohn's disease I have a lot of sympathy for your cat.  The only advice I can give you is maybe to try giving him white fish.  Years ago my family adopted a pair of brothers from a semi-feral mother who both had problems with manufactured cat foods, and on advice from a vet we tried the frozen fish bricks from the supermarket, which you boil for about five minutes straight from frozen.  The kittens gobbled them up and the smell drove them mad, obviously they had to wait a while for them to cool down, and the diarrhea disappeared within two days.  They loved the fish bricks and the problems never returned. I also think the chicken and rice is a good idea, but in case it doesn't work try this. Hope Sammy is better very soon.

 

[StefanZ]

Ah, white fish... Yes, vague memories returns....  It was another part of home remedies... Tx RockMum.

 

[otto]

Make sure the tests included giardia, coccidia and trichinosis.

A long course of flagyl may be necessary to knock out any stubborn bacteria.

Add a probiotic daily.

Get him off all foods that contain corn and other grains. Eliminate dry food completely.

A raw diet would be best, if you are willing to go that route. Some animals have a system so sensitive that they just can't tolerate all the additives and man made things in commercial foods, even 'high quality' foods.

I had a kitten with chronic diarrhea. She had all the tests (including the ones I mentioned above) A probiotic helped, but not enough. A raw diet was the answer for her. She still takes a probiotic, too, but no more diarrhea.

Diarrhea and large stools (that aren't caused by bacteria or parasites) indicate a lack of absorption. The food is not being digested and absorbed in the intestines like it should. For some cats, their bodies just can't sort through the junk in commercial foods. They need pure food.

PS Whitefish has given every cat I've ever owned diarrhea. Fish is extremely high in allergens. I wouldn't feed this kitten fish.

 

[rockmum]

Yes well maybe the white fish you gave to your cats was full of junk additives, whereas the stuff we had wasn't, hence why it had the opposite effect and completely cured the problem. I wasn't just suggesting it as an option, I was referring to historical proof that it worked. 

 

[otto]

Yes well maybe the white fish you gave to your cats was full of junk additives, whereas the stuff we had wasn't, hence why it had the opposite effect and completely cured the problem. I wasn't just suggesting it as an option, I was referring to historical proof that it worked. 

You may be right about the source of the whitefish (commercial food) being the problem with my cats all those years ago, any fish in commercial cat foods is bound to be the dregs. However since I believe that any fish is bad for cats, I will continue to advise people to not give their cats fish, especially a cat already presenting with severe intestinal problems.

One person's experience is not 'historical proof'. I'm glad those kittens were helped, but the anecdote does not prove that whitefish is a cure for chronic diarrhea.

Anyone who decides to try to feed their cat cooked fish, please be sure to sift through it very carefully to remove the bones.

 

[taxido]

Ritz,

Sammy has been on Encore Chicken, and Encore Chicken and Ham varieties for the whole time.  I stopped giving him fish varieties early on in case he was allergic to fish.  

Each can of Encore is 70g.  Made up of 75% chicken breast, 24% chicken broth, 1% rice, no additives, crude protein 14%, crude fibre 1%, crude oils and fats 0.3%, crude ash 2%, moisture 82%.  This is complimentary food.  

The other food is called HiLife Tempt Me, chopped chicken in jelly.  This is marketed as a complete food.  Each pouch is 85g made up of 50% chicken, minerals sunflower oil, tapioca and taurine.  The further breakdown is nutritional additives (e.g. vitamins etc.) no artificial additives, 9.0% protein, 3.5% fat, crude fibres 1.0%, inorganic matter 3.0%, moisture 83.5%.

We had been feeding Sammy on 2 x Encore chicken plus 2 HiLife Tempt Me pouches chicken in jelly each day.

Regarding all the helpful information I will take this on board.  At the moment, I have started to feed Sammy very tiny amounts of boiled chicken, and so far, so good.  I will be adding some mushy rice to the food tomorrow.

Many thanks.

 

[amundaloo]

I noticed that you have changed diets on a couple of occasions. This could absolutely cause diarrhea. Stick to a diet that is GI supportive and, like other posts have said, ensure that you have your kitty's stool tested for the appropriate parasites.

Someone mentioned a raw food diet - I COMPLETELY disagree to the nth degree. Raw foods contain bacteria that are actually more difficult to digest - please do not go this route unless you would like salmonella poisoning yourself. I work at a vet clinic and have seen this happen on many occasions. Raw diets are also INCOMPLETE sources of nutrition, unless you are feeding your critter the entire carcass (stomach included). I get very irritated when people feed their animals only protein sources. Horrible, horrible, horrible! 

 

[otto]

I noticed that you have changed diets on a couple of occasions. This could absolutely cause diarrhea. Stick to a diet that is GI supportive and, like other posts have said, ensure that you have your kitty's stool tested for the appropriate parasites.
Someone mentioned a raw food diet - I COMPLETELY disagree to the nth degree. Raw foods contain bacteria that are actually more difficult to digest - please do not go this route unless you would like salmonella poisoning yourself. I work at a vet clinic and have seen this happen on many occasions. Raw diets are also INCOMPLETE sources of nutrition, unless you are feeding your critter the entire carcass (stomach included). I get very irritated when people feed their animals only protein sources. Horrible, horrible, horrible! 

Yes of course, the raw diet must be balanced, but your fears of bacteria are way overinflated. Dry foods contain many more bacteria, and cause many more health problems in both cats and humans. Cats, as obligate carnivores are designed by nature to handle some bacteria and their systems are meant to digest raw meat.

But I won't go into that more in this thread . We have a very active raw feeding forum here, with some really knowledgeable members who will go out of their way to help, and many other members to share experiences and information. Lots of good reading there for both you and the OP, if either of you wish to become more knowledgeable about raw feeding. Many cats have reaped the benefits of improved health on balanced raw diets, including, and especially, cats with chronic diarrhea and other digestive problems, my Queen Eva and my Mazy cat being two of them

But I do agree you that frequent diet changes of commercial foods can make any diarrhea issue worse.

PS If it helps any, I used to feel the same way about raw diets. It's taken me a few years of studying to understand both the dangers and the benefits. But, I am so glad I took the time to learn, because boy are my cats benefiting!

 

[amundaloo]

Dry foods are actually heated under an intense level of heat to kill bacteria; this is the problem with raw diets. I've actually visited a Royal Canin plant and have seen the testing first-hand. Unfortunately, I have seen people develop salmonella poisoning due to feeding their animals raw diets so my fears are based on empirical observation, and not an irrational hyperinflation. I have also seen many more animals that develop nutritional deficiencies due to improper administration of this type of diet. I am very happy that the diets have worked for your kitties but I would not recommend this type of diet. This is especially true if the animal has already had parasitic infections and the flora in the gut is compromised. 

 

[otto]

Dry foods are actually heated under an intense level of heat to kill bacteria; this is the problem with raw diets. I've actually visited a Royal Canin plant and have seen the testing first-hand. Unfortunately, I have seen people develop salmonella poisoning due to feeding their animals raw diets so my fears are based on empirical observation, and not an irrational hyperinflation. I have also seen many more animals that develop nutritional deficiencies due to improper administration of this type of diet. I am very happy that the diets have worked for your kitties but I would not recommend this type of diet. This is especially true if the animal has already had parasitic infections and the flora in the gut is compromised. 

I won't de-rail this thread any more than to say that dry foods grow bacteria on their surfaces after they have been made. Do a search on all the recalls over the past year, all involving dry foods and salmonella bacteria. Massive recalls. Dry food and salmonella.

If you want more information about how to feed a safe balanced raw diet, I hope you will visit our raw feeding forum, or any other raw feeding on-line community. Like I said, I used to feel the same way (about raw I mean, not dry, I wouldn't ever recommend dry), until I started learning more about it.

This thread, of course isn't about the pros and cons of raw feeding or dry feeding, so I won't go on with that line of discussion here. It's about a young cat with chronic diarrhea. Along with mentioning parasites and bacteria that need to be tested for (which would be done with a culture) I suggested the OP might want to look into feeding a raw diet, when all else has failed, as many have had success with it. If Taxido is interested in pursuing that route, s/he will get plenty of assistance and support.

.

 

[ritz]

Thanks for the reminder about making sure the rice is cooked--actually overcooked.  And of course no added seasonings, no salt.

And also thanks for the reminder about changing food too quickly; that in and of itself can cause diarreha in a cat with a sensitive stomach.

Tapioca isn't a great food/starch, I'd try to avoid it.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[minka]

Agreed that switching foods so often (especially dry which needs to be transitioned) could easily be the cause of this problem, if not making it worse. :nod:

 

[taxido]

I think you may be right.  Sammy seems okay so far since I put him on small boiled chicken meals.  I have now started to introduce the royal canin kitten dry food.  I started this yesterday, just about 5 pieces with every meal.  So far, so good.  He has not used the litter tray yet, so presumably that is a good sign.  He is full of vitality and chattering away to us and Timmy.

 

[taxido]

Sammy has been doing well.  He has been on boiled chicken since last Saturday.  As he seemed so much better, over the past two days, I have begun to add literally 5 or 6 kibbles  of Royal Canin Kitten food to his boiled chicken.  Apparently he was given a bowl of this Royal Canin kitten food dry kibble every night,  when he was at his foster home and we were feeding it to him when he first came.  

He has had no diarrhoea or passed a stool since he had the bad diarrhoea a few days back. This morning he passed a small normal stool.  However, there were a lot of real noisy, gurgling, gassy noises before it came out, which led me to believe he was going to have diarrhoea again, but the stool was normal.  

When I next fed him this morning, I gave him boiled chicken and added a few more Royal Canin kibbles to it (so he had around 10 this time) - about 30 minutes later the diarrhoea is back again.  Not too much, but enough.  

I find it hard to understand all the mumbo jumbo on cat foods, but from looking at the Royal Canin Kitten Food ingredients, it seems that maize is one of them.  So I guess it is back to square one again - just boiled chicken only for another few days.  I am now wondering if he is allergic to cereal and if so, would he also be allergic to rice and tapioca too, both of which we had been feeding him for a couple of months via Encore complimentary cat food, and HiLife Tempt Me complete food, which is in tapioca jelly??  

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[taxido]

Just managed to get from the Germany lady who bred Sammy that he was free fed Royal Canin Dry Kitten food and half a pouch of Felix wet kitten food only.  No wonder we were having problems.  His system is obviously used to a predominantly dry food diet.  She recommends feeding the boiled chicken and gradually introducing Royal Canin Sensible 33 and then putting him solely on that alone.

 

[flintmccullough]

If-Sammy-were-my-kitten,the-first-thing-I-would-do,is-take-him-to-the-vet-and-ask-for-an-x-ray.It-will-show-if-something-else-is-going-on-inside,and-being-that-he-has-gas,which-will-show-up-as-dark,on-the-x-ray,on-his-intestines,and-he-would-be-put-on-Metronidazole.That-would-eliminate-the-diarea.

The-usual-time-frame,for-the-med,is-10-days,you-usually-notice-an-improvement-in-3-days,I-already-been-this-route,I-have-one-kitten-that-has-a-very-sensative-little-system.He-needed-longer-than-2-weeks,to-switch-from-kitten-food,to-adult-food.

If-Sammy-is-10-months-old,he-should-no-longer-be-on-kitten-food,its-too-rich.You-normally-switch-from-kitten-food-to-adult-food,at-ballpark-8-months.

I-would-also-take-him-off-Royal-Canin.It-is-full-of-grains-and-by-products,and-yes,lol,maize-is-corn,food-companies-trying-to-slide-that,past-us-pet-parents,lol.

Alot-of-kitties-have-trouble-digesting-the-corns,and-garbage,that-is-by-products,hence-the-diarea,as-the-others-have-said.

Not-knowledgeable-about-the-food-choices-you-have-in-the-UK,lol,but-what-you-want,is-a-grain-free,by-product-free,gluten-free(that-is-another-biggie-of-digestive-issues).

I-feed-Blue-Wilderness,its-by-Blue-Buffalo,don't-know-if-its-avail-in-the-UK.

Here-is-a-good-site-to-read.

http://catinfo.org/

This-person,is-very-knowledgeable,about-digestive-issues.

http://www.ibdkitties.net/index.html

Maybe-she-did-dump-Sammy-on-you,but-look-at-it,like,if-he-stayed-with-her,or-went-to-another-person,he-may-not-have-gotten-the-help-he-needs,with-his-new-parents,he-will-get-the-help.

 

[ritz]

Totally agree with Flint:  the Royal Canin is full of low quality ingredients.  And maize is just another name for corn.  And take your cat to the vets.  The two sites linked are excellent (and understandable).

And the RC 33 has these ingredients--note how much corn:  Chicken, chicken meal, rice flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), corn gluten meal, ground yellow corn, poultry meal, corn flour, dried egg product, brewers rice, beet pulp, brewers dried yeast, chicken flavor, fish meal, calcium carbonate, corn cellulose, sodium bisulfate, and probably around 33 other ingredients.

Since Sammy deems to do well on plain cooked chicken and cooked rice, I'd look for limited ingredients WET food with as little carbs as possible (and carbohydrates in this case includes peas, carrots, as well as maize, potatoes, etc).  Tapioca is a starch (of course) used to thicken water, kind of like gravy.