The Concept of Danger/ Punishment

Hi all,

A few weeks back I wrote about the introduction of a kitten into my home and my fear of the reactions of the resident cat. Well, I think I can now pretty much sum up what the biggest problem is likely to be:

Kitten's utter lack of the concept of danger/ punishment.

1. When we initially began the introduction process, our biggest fear was that the resident cat would attack the new kitten. Well, that seems to be far from what's happening now. Firstly, despite what I would expect as obvious danger signs, such as resident hissing, yowling, raising hackles, and growling, kitten totally has no idea what all that means. Secondly, no only isn't she cautious, she often runs straight for resident in all innocence and friendliness.

We don't know if this is for fun or whether she sees resident as a surrogate mother. What I do know is that instead of restraining resident cat we are working full time to restrain kitten from making a mad dash for aggressive resident, even to the point of ambushing her.

2. With resident, all I need do is raise my voice, call out "No!" or roll up the ol' newspaper, or any other warning signs and she stops what she's doing. With kitten, it doesn't matter what I do, she doesn't get the concept of punishment or reproach. Even after a whack with the newspaper roll or open palm, she gives a puzzled look, and is instantly back at my feet playing with my toes. Stern, authoritarian, stentorian voice does absolutely nothing to warn her she's getting out of line or in danger.

Lest bleeding hearts go off at any perceived cruelty or the wrongness of punishment, I want to point out that our very real concern is that without any concept of consequence there is a very real danger when we do need to warn her. For instance, strangers breaking and entering, dangerous dogs, etc.
The biggest concern right now is we feel we really cannot keep her in isolation any longer and need to start letting her out of the room as it is pretty cruel to keep her confined even with the amusements we try to give her.

So my question is: How does one start to teach a totally clueless kitten about danger? I don't want resident to outright attack kitten before she learns the concept of pain avoidance. If both cats were wary of and unfriendly to each other I would be a lot less concerned about letting them roam about, but this is a case where we have one clueless kitten having no concept of danger in very real danger from a resident with a history of aggression.

Thanks and many regards!

Kittens are by nature friendly, extremely curious and innocent. There are stickies on proper intros. In my experience though, it's better not to interfere too much.
About hitting the kitten as a punishment, it does not really work. You already found out. I suggest you teach the little one the same way a mommy cat (or better still take the cue from your resident cat) would. Hissing, growling work for me. Also I've used a sudden, loud, short and abrupt sound like a clap of my hands which taught the kittens to stop whatever they're doing to look at me (which is very cute BTW).

Originally Posted by yayi

I suggest you teach the little one the same way a mommy cat (or better still take the cue from your resident cat) would. Hissing, growling work for me. Also I've used a sudden, loud, short and abrupt sound like a clap of my hands which taught the kittens to stop whatever they're doing to look at me (which is very cute BTW).

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Dear Yayi,

Thanks for your response! I'd almost given up checking for one.

Your ideas are good ones, however the hissing and growling would not work because these very same warning signals from resident are not stopping kitten from dashing madly forwards. That's what really scares me. I mean, punishment aside - I can take a lot of nonsense from her really! - what I'm trying to get across is the idea of danger. These signs from resident aren't working and kitten still dashes to play with her, with what I fear may potentially be disastrous consequences, especially when resident slashes with her claws.

I'll give the hand clapping a try though!

PS: enemy of the zoo eh? Chuckle :-)

Originally Posted by GregPTPT

1. When we initially began the introduction process, our biggest fear was that the resident cat would attack the new kitten. Well, that seems to be far from what's happening now. Firstly, despite what I would expect as obvious danger signs, such as resident hissing, yowling, raising hackles, and growling, kitten totally has no idea what all that means. Secondly, no only isn't she cautious, she often runs straight for resident in all innocence and friendliness.

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Doubtful. Your kitten knows exactly what the aggressive body language means and is trying to be friendly anyway. Let them have a few fights. Your cat shouldn't hurt a kitten too much. When my cat was about four months old, she was introduced to my sister's cat, who would rather whine about her batting at him than fight back against a baby, though he is one tough cat and was a stray for a couple years. Of course, some cats will hurt a kitten, so keep an eye on them. Likely, your preventing you older cat from teaching the kitten that she doesn't want to play right now is what is wrong.

Originally Posted by GregPTPT

2. With resident, all I need do is raise my voice, call out "No!" or roll up the ol' newspaper, or any other warning signs and she stops what she's doing. With kitten, it doesn't matter what I do, she doesn't get the concept of punishment or reproach. Even after a whack with the newspaper roll or open palm, she gives a puzzled look, and is instantly back at my feet playing with my toes. Stern, authoritarian, stentorian voice does absolutely nothing to warn her she's getting out of line or in danger.

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Teaching your cats to fear you hurting them is about the worst thing you can do. The best thing to do is to train them what they should be doing instead. That is, ignore bad behavior, and reward good behavior. As for the dangers, no, a kitten doesn't understand danger in the human sense of the word. That is why it's your job to kitten-proof your house and prevent as many dangers as you can from existing. If a stranger is breaking into your house, what are the chances they actually pose a threat to a kitten? Not very good. They're probably after something else, and the biggest danger to your cat will be a door or window left open. As for dogs, the kitten will probably instinctively fear a growling dog, and run away.

There is NO REASON at all to hit you cat. Ever. It is cruel. It does not do a darn thing to help train your cats. If anything, you will soon have on your hands a kitten who is terrified of you, and absolutely no way to train her to do anything because she'll be too busy hiding from you.

Sorry if I'm a "bleeding heart", but all you're doing is making your problem worse and being cruel in the process.

I think that sooner or later, Resident Cat will give the kitten a little or not so little tap to teach it to stay within its own personal space.

Just be sure that you don't leave them alone when you are out; keeping the kitten in a kitten proof room would probably be your best course of action until it learns some things. Like babies, kittens have to learn that some things are not for them, and some things might hurt. The 'hurts' should be small, just enough to teach, not really harm them. Hitting the cat is absolutely wrong.
Blowing air in its face will get good results and won't hurt the cat at all. You need no special tools, and the cat will get the message.