Please help....

I've been very careful to avoid naming them. I do believe they can be a great cattery depending on how they handle this.

I think it's important to note that we're all only reading one side of the story. While everyone is condemming the breeder, their view of the situation has not been told, and there are always two sides to any story.
I don't think informing the breeder that they are being roasted on the spit on a public website will do the original poster any favors.

I'd love for the breeder to tell their side - maybe I'm missing something. Their biggest defense has been that the kitten was fine in their care & sick in ours so there must be something in our environment causing this problem. This is not what the vets tell me, but If they could convince me I have no problem being wrong.

Part of the problem may be vet related - being to 2 different emergency vets yielded two different diagnoses & he has also been to our vet & the breeders. That why I am willing to settle for simply the cost of the kitten ($700) instead of all the vet bills - over $1200 now.

The one consistent message from every third party vet is that this kitten is "sickly".

We have sent almost daily updates during this ordeal & she has answered almost everyone with the exception of any email that discusses a financial settlement. It would be nice if she outlined specifically why they do not want to pay. I am more than reasonable & open to a fair discussion on this.

At the end of the day, we did receive a sick kitten - 4 vets have said this. Why can't we be compensated for part of the vet bills? Why can't receive a response outlining why they will not settle? This is not an unreasonable request.

Do you have a written contract with these folks? Any sort of health guarantee?
My contract obligates the new owner to take the kitten to the vet within 48 hours of taking possession. This protects both the new owner and me and gives the new Vet a "benchmark" to judge the kittens health for future visits.

I of course know, that some diseases have set incubation periods and if a diagnosis confirmed the kitten was still in my care during the acquisition of the illness, I would be obligated to provide some sort of remedy.

Did your breeder outline any terms in writing regarding health guarantee's vet checks and so forth? Any verbal guarantee's?

Yes Kai Bengal,

You do have a very valid point. But what I've read so far doesn't appear to be an attempt to roast the breeder. It looks like people attempting to come up with possible solutions, and lending support to darincm.

I guess it may sound aggressive because people are so passionate about animals and cats in particular. But you are right that the breeder does have a perspective that we haven't heard, and the goal is for darincm to have a healthy kitty and resolution to the financial strain. If the breeder being aware of this thread would hinder that, then them being made aware of it would serve no purpose.

We have a contract & their is a health gaurantee. As per the contract when we discovered he was sick we returned him to her. She returned him to us four days later assuring us that we was healthy - and he did appear very healthy.

It was 24 hours after that he took a turn for the worse again & he has been in & out of vets since.

The crux of the issue now is that they believe he was healthy when he left -
and did appear healthy. As pointed out earlier though, there are illnesses that do not present immediately & only appear with the onset of stress - ie a move to a new environment.

I'm not sure how any breeder could argue $1200 in vet bills - we didn't do this for fun

Originally Posted by darincm

We have a contract & their is a health gaurantee. As per the contract when we discovered he was sick we returned him to her. She returned him to us four days later assuring us that we was healthy - and he did appear very healthy.

It was 24 hours after that he took a turn for the worse again & he has been in & out of vets since.

The crux of the issue now is that they believe he was healthy when he left -
and did appear healthy. As pointed out earlier though, there are illnesses that do not present immediately & only appear with the onset of stress - ie a move to a new environment.

I'm not sure how any breeder could argue $1200 in vet bills - we didn't do this for fun

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I think you're in a tough spot, as it sounds like your breeder is blaming you for the kittens illness and isn't willing to budge from that stance. If your Vet is suspecting FIP, you'll have to shell out the money to get the proof positive tests done, before you can prove that the kitten acquired it while in the care of the breeder. If there is any chance he acquired it after you picked him up, you'll have a difficult time making a case in court.
I guess if your breeder isn't willing to discuss what they are or aren't willing to do, you'll have to ask a judge to decide.

Originally Posted by darincm

We have a contract & their is a health gaurantee. As per the contract when we discovered he was sick we returned him to her. She returned him to us four days later assuring us that we was healthy - and he did appear very healthy.

It was 24 hours after that he took a turn for the worse again & he has been in & out of vets since.

The crux of the issue now is that they believe he was healthy when he left -
and did appear healthy. As pointed out earlier though, there are illnesses that do not present immediately & only appear with the onset of stress - ie a move to a new environment.

I'm not sure how any breeder could argue $1200 in vet bills - we didn't do this for fun

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Im not very clear on exactly what the contract states. Does it say that if the cat is checked by a vet within a certain time frame and found to be sick, it could be returned and the money refunded or a kitten replacement would be provided? Why didn't the breeder refund the money or replace the kitten when you returned it just a few days later? When you took the kitten back to the breeder, did you agree to forgo the refund or the replacement? Did you agree that she could give you the same cat back if she could make it healthy?

Also, does the contract specifically state that the breeder would not be responsible for any vet bills but that the guarantee is limited only to the physical replacement of the kitten?

Even if these breeders insist that the kitten got sick in your care, the kitten still got sick within the guarantee time period, right? You are still entitled to a refund or replacement (depending on what you agreed to when you signed the contract).

Personally, I'd take a new kitten (provided it would be healthy) or better yet, a refund, because I simply wouldn't want to take the chance with this breeder, at least until they found out and took care of what is making their kittens sick.

I know it's sad to start to bond with a precious little life and maybe have to give him up, but it really doesn't sound like he's going to have much of a quality of life. From what you said the Vet's all told you he was sickly and would suffer health problems all of his life. Sometimes there is only so much we can do for out furbabies, and if they can't get better, then I think the only kind thing we can do, is let them go. Of course, your would have to return him to the breeders, and it would be up to them to do the humane thing. When you say this baby is peeing and throwing up blood, it just seems like he is suffering, and that's no way for this little guy to have to face life.

It's a very heartbreaking situation not only for you, but for this innocent little kitty who is suffering.

I am wondering if you have house plants he is munching or if you are using Pine Sol or other cleaners that have proven to cause illness in kitties. Some kitties are more sensitive to chemicals than others so that is why only one is ill.

Just my 2 cents worth

Teresa

I am so sorry this is happening. I have no advice, I just wanted to wish you and your family well. I hope things turn out right (health-wise, at the very least) very soon.

Originally Posted by DragonLady

I am wondering if you have house plants he is munching or if you are using Pine Sol or other cleaners that have proven to cause illness in kitties. Some kitties are more sensitive to chemicals than others so that is why only one is ill.

Just my 2 cents worth

Teresa

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I was wondering the same thing. Of course, that won't cause a URI but the other symptoms do sound like what you suggested.

no house plants - we've had cats for over 10 years so we are well aware of that problem Haven't used Pine-Sol, a little Windex & Pledge

Our contract does say that the breeder is not responsible for vet bills but I have learned through a current malpractice suit against a fertility doctor that even though a contract may have been signed, there needs to be some sense of reason in it. A contract may have been signed & agreed to, but can still be open to interpretation.

After we initially found out he was sick, we brought him back to the breeder. The breeder apparently got him healthy again. When he got sick again after a day or two back at our place, we called the breeder again & they refused to take him back for fear of infection. If they would have taken him back the second time, we would have received a new kitten - at that point we were not too attached to him.

We were told that if we did not want to spend any more money on him we should put him down. How the hell can any reasonable person kill a kitten with a chance for life? We couldn't, so we keep trying to get him well. If the breeder would have taken him back the second time he got ill we would not be in this situation

I wish buying a kitten or puppy was as easy as buying a car, but its not. When my car doesn't work I can go back to the dealer with no emotional attachment to the car - not so with an animal.

That's why there needs to be an independant association that consists of breeders, vets & consumers who can mediate these types of issues instead of people resorting to the courts.

BTW - thanks to all for the kind words & listening to my ramblings

Izzy on the left, Ella on the right

Originally Posted by darincm

That's why there needs to be an independant association that consists of breeders, vets & consumers who can mediate these types of issues instead of people resorting to the courts.

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While I can understand your frustration, I personally wouldn't want this sort of association involved. The reason why is because the only way to force breeders to comply with the decisions and register with the association would be if the government were running it. I really think the government is involved enough in our day to day lives already.

People who are looking for a pedigreed cat need to perform due diligence. Ask questions, ask for references, read what you're signing. If there's no contract...walk away. And, once again ask questions! If the breeder evades or doesn't respond the way you'd like....walk away. For every bad breeder, there are 10 good ones with the same breed of kitten you're looking for.

In the final analysis if there is a major problem and both parties are at an impasse, small claims court is your mediator. That's what it was designed for.

Originally Posted by darincm

If the breeder would have taken him back the second time he got ill we would not be in this situation

I

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Actually, if the breeder would have taken the kitten back the FIRST time, you would not be in this situation. Personally, I would have said NO to getting the kitten back after taking it back the first time. You should have gotten a replacement kitten the first time you took the kitten back. Apparently, this was not the case and there was some other agreement between you and the breeder later. Obviouly the lesson here for ALL of us is to stick with the contract terms. Once you go outside of those terms - it's her word against yours. You see it one way, she sees it a different way. All you have behind you is your signed agreement and since that agreement was not followed, now technically your guarantee period is gone. The right thing to do is to give you another kitten, but unfortunately legally you may not have a leg to stand on any longer.

I think it's time to let this thread die - not much more I can say. I may have made some mistakes during the process & I'll just have to deal with it.

I still stand by the creation of an association of some sort. It would not have to be run the by the government & breeders would not have to belong to it. It would simply be another tool that consumners, breeders & vets can use when dealing with purebred cats.

HI this is Darins wife, we had Izzy to the vet again today, they think he has a liver shunt, Tests will be done tomorrow, we should get the results by wed.The breeder has continued to deny that she has sold us a ill kitten, she said if test s proved othervise she will get back to us.But they want us to go but Izzy down and wait for a replacement to be born.we are now very much attached to my little man i call him! he s lovable funny, and too cute! Do we give him a chance to see if he responds to treatment ? or also trust the breeder to give us another HEALTHY kitten! All advise is welcome Thanks again! Sandra and Darin Ps Izzy and Ella too!

What a sad thing for the breeder to suggest ...... they wont refund your money .... but will give you a new kitten .... but want you to put this poor baby down .....

I dont have any advice ..... Im sure someone will come to give you some sound advice .... IMO ..... that is just sad on the breeders part !!!!!

Originally Posted by Mastercolorist

HI this is Darins wife, we had Izzy to the vet again today, they think he has a liver shunt, Tests will be done tomorrow, we should get the results by wed.The breeder has continued to deny that she has sold us a ill kitten, she said if test s proved othervise she will get back to us.But they want us to go but Izzy down and wait for a replacement to be born.we are now very much attached to my little man i call him! he s lovable funny, and too cute! Do we give him a chance to see if he responds to treatment ? or also trust the breeder to give us another HEALTHY kitten! All advise is welcome Thanks again! Sandra and Darin Ps Izzy and Ella too!

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If it is indeed a liver shunt, the call will be up to you. I can only tell you what I know with my experience. Firstly, check your contract if your baby was guarenteed against genetic defect, they have to replace or refund. A liver shunt IS a genetic defect.

Depending how sevre the shunt is, and what your best course for you and your vet is. Putting him down may be the most humane thing to do. There are preventive diets, and surgey, but from what my vet explained to me nothing is a 100% guarentee.

My sweet boy Ares, who...ironicly I also called my little man. Had a liver shunt. It was not detectable until the end. His Amonia levels were sky high, and he had a Grandmal seizure because of it. We could have had the surgery, but there was no guarentees, and no quality of life guarentee either. so we made the humane choice. We let him go.

And I Have never felt a hole in my heart so great.Its hard to even talk about it now. But We did the right thing.

My thoughts are with you. the right thing is not always the easy thing.

I wouldn't want another kitten from that breeder. They aren't very good breeders.

It would be nice if there were an independent association in which membership was voluntary, and you could look up breeders who belonged to it, and be assured that they were following certain guidelines and would be kicked out for not doing so. The govt wouldn't be involved, and less legality... but it might help a lot in situations like this, even if they can't make them refund or replace they could still remove them from the approved list or whatever, like a BBB for breeders.