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Politically incorrect

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Bill Mahr was talking the other night as his show is still in existence until his cancellation date. The topic on the table was the Catholic Church and the controversy there. He stated that he holds the Church as the organization behind the crime responsible, because the Church knew of the sickness and the criminal acts and rather than do something about it, the church allowed it to perpetuate out of control. Now, I am not Catholic, and mean no offense the the devout ones on the board, but I have to agree with what Bill said 100%. He said the motivation behind not doing anything because the church is really endowed with so much power, was greed and fear. The church did not want to lose the parishoners and the contributions flowing in to all the churches as well as the Catholic charities.
post #2 of 21
Anyone who has knowledge of a crime and doesn't report it is an accessory after the fact. The bishops and archbishops who, for years have been covering up and making payoffs are guilty of criminal behavior and should be held liable. I, also, have a problem with the victims' parents, accepting these payoffs and keeping quiet. If someone had molested one of my sons, I would have headed for the nearest cop shop and gotten that SOB off the streets. It is estimated that, by the time a molestor is caught, he has had approximately 100 victims. Here, in Tucson, Bishop Moreno is running around from parish to parish, apologizing for HIS coverups and payoffs. One parish, in particular has been hit very hard by a succession of pedophile priests. One of these priests was shuffled around from Yuma to Tucson and, after THIRTY YEARS of substantiated complaints, finally fired! WHY did it take thirty years? It has, also, cost the diocese a lot of money. I don't have a problem, with anyone's religion. I DO have a problem with hypocrisy!
post #3 of 21
Politically incorrect? I thought you were starting a thread about me, hissy!

In all seriousness, I think the Church is guilty, for all the covering up has led to the crimes perpetuating themselves. I think the Catholic church was more interested in retaining their pious image than seeing that the right thing was done. I'll shut up now before I get flamed off the board.
post #4 of 21
I think its absolutely disgusting that people use organized religion like Catholicism as a smoke screen for their twisted behavior. How can these people sleep at night knowing that parents entrusted them with their children and they abused that trust in the most horrific way possible? And as far as people continuing to support these churches , they are as guilty as anyone of perpetuating it once they are aware of whats going on. I'm not sure if theres a Hell, but if there is those SOB's will be running the joint
post #5 of 21
Mary Anne we must be sharing a brain or something! I wanted to start a thread on this topic, but couldn't figure out a "politically correct" way of doing it so as not to offend our Catholic members.

I think that the Church needs to take more responsibility for its actions, and giving out hush money is not the only thing they need to do. They have to make it a policy to report these things to the legal authorities. I agree with what has been said so far in this thread: it is the Church's fault when they knew about it and just shuffled known pedophiles to new victims. Obviously, somewhere along the lines word got out to the pedopheliac community that this is a safe haven - access to as many kids as you want and the Church will cover your tracks. I say that because you just aren't hearing about other denominations where this is happening with the frequency of the Catholic church.

I have nothing against the people practicing Catholicism. It isn't their fault. I think that whenever any organization gets too powerful and untouchable, there are going to be problems. It has happened in the past with the Catholic Church (historical church).

I would really like to hear from some of our Catholic members and get their perspective on the whole thing, from how it has been handled so far to what changes they think should be made.
post #6 of 21
According to MSNBC, this morning, the Bishps' Conference wants a "one strike and you're out" policy but, the Vatican is against that. I was appalled, recently, when a senior Vatican official went on record stating that the Church is not responsible for the actions of its priests. When they cover up and transfer these perverts, THAT makes them responsible!
post #7 of 21
I feel bad for all the devout Catholics that have supported and believed in the church only to have it slap them in the face by the terrible acts of those they trusted. It is yet another case of those in power using it inapproprately. I think it can be salvaged by those true believers and good priests standing up and demanding that those responsible be punished and no more hush money being paid or accepted. I think it will be better when there is a new Pope that will have to take care of this problem. I think the current one is too old and frail to be effective in this crisis. My SO was raised Catholic, and though he hasn't discussed it with me, I can tell this bothers him.
post #8 of 21
I saw an interesting special on one of those evening news magazines (Dateline or 60 Minutes II or something like that). It seems like the Catholic church isn't the only church with a molestation scandal exploding. The show featured Jehovah's Witnesses who were suing their molesters, and the church for covering it up.

Not to say that this excuses what's going on in the Catholic Church. I think that this is a problem common in many religions, and it is kept quiet to maintain the "Godly" image of the leaders of the religion. I hope that the problems in the Catholic Church help shed light on molestation and coverups in ALL faiths. I do not believe this is limited to the Catholic Church only.
post #9 of 21
I am not a Catholic and for that matter not really religious, but I don't think religion should have anything to do with this. These priests are pedifiles and probably became priests to have easy access to children(just as pedifiles become little league coaches etc.)I dont understand why there has to be a "summit" or meeting about this at all. This is a horrible crime against the most innocent of all PERIOD! Being thrown out of the church SHOULD be the least of these criminals' worries.
Somehow I think it has been overlooked that whether you are a priest or a bishop or a cardinal or the pope you are a person first who should be held accountable for breaking the law.
I get very emotional when it comes to child abuse or animal abuse because the victims are so trusting and defensless and I feel that the people who commit these types of crimes are the most cowardly poor excuses for human beings that society has to offer!
Thanks for letting me vent!
post #10 of 21
I also think that part of the problem, in all religions where this is happening, is how people view the priests/pastors. Many people think that once they are ordained they cannot do wrong. No one believes these kids who say anything because a priest wouldn't possibly do that. They are viewed as infallible. Priests, like teachers, should be held to greater accountability than most because of the amount of trust that people put in their position.

I also find the position the Vatican is taking appalling. They want all the power, money, and influence and none of the responsibility. Total cop out.
post #11 of 21
I agree, that it isn't just the Catholic Church. There have been recent child and sex abuse problems in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish sect in New York City and an Amish community. These things DO tend to happen in religions with a culture of repressing sexuality, whether hetero- or homosexual. When people don't discuss sexuality with their children, normal emotions get confused and, sometimes, manifest in inappropriate ways.
post #12 of 21
I was brought up Catholic (for my sins) - isn't it about time that the Catholic church allowed the priests to marry or co-habit? When the Anglican church in the UK allowed women vicars etc many people moved over to join us papists, including married vicars who have been accepted and ordained into the church as priests. Yeah, this will not eliminate the problem of paedophiles, but it will help get rid of the "sex is sinful" head mess-ups that could lead to "deviance"....

As a child I met and interacted with many catholic priests - all completely lovely men - including overnight school trips, and never encountered any hints of inappropriate behaviour. I don't think I was lucky, as the vast majority of priests are "normal". But should the church, and I mean every organised religion, do more to spot the "problems" with yearly interviews with psychologists and help them rather than just hiding the problem?
post #13 of 21
Unfortunately, pedophiles are not just Catholic priests. Pedophiles are married pastors, scoutmasters, Sunday School teachers, fathers, Little League coaches, any position of trust that will allow them a lot of contact with children. Sometimes, I believe, these people gravitate toward religion hoping that they will become strong enough to resist the temptation. When they cannot resist, they tell themselves that they are not harming the children.

Also, pedophiles are very good at finding the child with a psychological problem, such as low self esteem. They look for the child who stands out in his isolation. Then they zero in on that child, who falls prey to the extra attention. Many pedophiles lead otherwise normal lives and are not the stereotypical sleezy, "dirty old man" watching pornographic videos. That's why we're in shock over this. There is no doubt; the bishops were obligated to turn the man in. If teachers are, the clergy is also. They failed children in order to protect the institution. I am a Christian, by the way, and have spent my life as a church musician. I am NOT predjudiced against churches nor pastors. I hope that people realize that we cannot judge God by His people; we are fallible; He is not.
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
U.S. Catholic bishops adopt a policy barring clerics who sexually abuse children from continuing in the ministry

And I have to respectfully disagree with a point brought up here. I believe that the all the men who seek out the ministry are not aware of their weaknesses and do not expect God to help them overcome this sickness. I believe that the rules set out of not allowing priests to marry pushes some of these men over the edge and they turn to the children to relieve their obsession. I could give a tinker's dam about the church and it's role in society. My heart is to the millions of victims out there who are walking wounded adults because of the terrible "kept" secret.
post #15 of 21
Well I am a fairly faithful Catholic, but I do have my issues with them. One of my biggest is this protection of pedophiles. The Church should not be used as a smokescreen for some very sick people to abuse children. While saying this, I also believe that the Church isn't the only "institution" doing coverups. I feel that there are more pedaphiles out there in all aspects of care facilities but most are never reported for the fear place on the victims by the perps.
post #16 of 21
That's the point I was trying to make. The Roman Catholic Church is under attack right now, and rightfully so, I believe. I am a Lutheran, so our pastors marry. I was not trying to protect the Catholic Church. I was saying beware of Mr. Smith or Mr. Jones, the man next door. I was forced to report a pedophile when a child came to me for help. That man was married and had several children. He was very well respected in the community, and people trusted their children with him without fear. It was later discovered that this was not the first time he had done this. He just moved across the country when he realized he was under suspicion. Children have to be taught that improper touch has to be reported, no matter who does it. They still might say nothing. As I said, the experts told me these predators choose their victims carefully. The solution is beyond my wisdom.
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
This topic is being debated in courtrooms, in workplaces, in homes on the radio, on television and in forums all over the Internet. The church showed today they are weak in stopping this epidemic of sickness and perversion and they also clearly showed they do not know how to correct it. They decided to allow the pedophiles to stay within the church so what sort of solution is that?

I knew that when I put this topic here it would raise eyebrows and my intention was to just get everyone to talk about their own feelings regarding this. No one can discount anyone else's feelings or opinions and that was not my intent. I was simply sharing my views on this.I am not catholic, I have a deep belief in God however, and know He takes a dim view of anyone hurting a child in any way. I am by no means an expert on the subject and am grateful I am not. But I do know a couple people who have been abused by priests and I am aware of their struggle to come to terms with the betrayal of a man of the cloth.

This forum is great because many topics are encouraged here, not just the love of cats. I am sure that all these cat lovers also love children and they are chilled to the bone at the idea that these children have been violated in such a heinous way!
post #18 of 21
hypocrisy has plagued every branch of every belief system ever. (And that's not when someone makes a mistake and genuinely repents of it later.) Historically the Catholic church (no offense to anyone who is Catholic) departed from the very book that started it all (more accurately the teachings and letters of the apostles, the Bible we have today wasn't accepted until the 4th century by the Councils of Carthage and Laodicia... but I digress). The teachings clearly say that if a man (or woman) cannot contain their passion then they should marry rather than burn. This does NOT disqualify them for service in the church (check out the books of Timothy). (As the reformation was later to address). The other, perhaps more relavant point is that while mercy and forgiveness is not optional, neither is tolerance of sin (1&2 Corinthians). To simply ignore, or cover up, any sin is as deplorable as not forgiving a truly repentant individual. Also, the consequences of sin always have to be dealt with irregardless of how repentent the person is or not.

In my opinion these priests, (and bishops) should be tried in a court of law and removed from church leadership.

Sorry if this seemed a little winded, I really haven't had the chance to rant about this one.
post #19 of 21
I agree with the majority here on this one, that the Catholic church should be held accountable for covering this up and allowing these sickos to remain in their positions of power in the church....but I also agree with Jeanie, that it is probably in alot of other churches and other places besides church where these sickos have access to young children, so it isn't just the Catholic church, but they are the ones who are under fire for it now, and they should be held accountable!!!!
post #20 of 21
Just read the text of the resolution from the Bishops' Conference. The bottom line seems to be: "shuffle the abusers off to a halfway house or monastery but, don't defrock them or report them to civil authorities." Bishop Moreno, of Tucson, is saying that HE will adopt a zero-tolerance policy, defrock and report ALL abusers. He has, already, instituted a review board. One of the members is the County Sheriff. By sending these cases to the review board, they are automatically reported to law enforcement. Sheriff Dupnik will HAVE to act on them. I believe that the County Attorney's sex crimes prosecutor will be working with them, too. SHE is one tough prosecutor!
post #21 of 21
The policy in the past has been to do what you said initially, to send them for therapy and put them in a parish where they are not to work directly with children. However, according to the mental health community, no pedophile has been cured. It is an ongoing temptation which can be controlled somewhat by medication to suppress the sex drive. I cannot quote the programs I have watched, but they have been on educational tv, such as TLC and Discovery Channel.
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