Pit Bull & Cats? - Page 2

Gemini,

How are things going with the puppy? Have you had any luck?

That is great Nicole! I hope Brandy enjoys her new family! Good luck & let us know what happens

Nichole, you'll know in your heart if the guy isn't the right person for Brandy. If he has less than good intentions for her, you'll pick up on and so will Brandy.

That said, I have known a lot of single guys who absolutely dote on their dogs. I knew one in college who had a little Rottie and it was so touching how he treated her. In the hot summer, he would stop the car to make sure she could get a drink, and even shared water bottles with her!

My advice would be to have this guy spend some time with her under your observation, if possible during at least 2 - 3 visits. Being a single male doesn't necessarily mean that he's looking for a "fighting dog". Make sure he's "comfortable" with her, and watch how she reacts to his voice and body language. A pit bull shouldn't be in the hands of a person who isn't self-assertive. If he impresses you as shy and retiring, especially with the dog, I'd say hands off. If she reacts positively to his offers of play, and shows a willingness to listen to him, he'll probably make out okay with her.

I'm glad you have good prospects for her!

Another thing you could do is a bit of a background check on the guy - when he comes to meet Brandy, ask him casually about previous pets he's had - you can often tell a lot about someone's feelings for their pets by how they answer that question.

I'd quite like to add my two cents here as well. Apparently this lady `knows' dogs. Well, I would also consider myself someone who `knows' dogs, given that I work with them and am training to become an obedience trainer. Pitbulls, whilst having possibly more of a high prey drive than say, a cocker spaniel, are no more dangerous when raised correctly than other dogs. Pitbulls, remember, are a type of terrier, and ALL terriers are naturally more tenacious, with higher prey drives, than other breeds. Jack Russells are included in this too!

Someone earlier mentioned that people who are attacked may have missed `canine warning signs'. This is absolutely true. Many people (including many breeders and trainers also, sadly) do not truly understand the nature of dogs, and expect them to behave the way WE want them to behave. This just doesn't happen.

Dogs operate on a pack awareness. Even if they are single dogs, they will automatically view every other being in the house - cat, human, bird, rabbit etc, as part of their pack, and unless trained otherwise, will assume the role of alpha dog. This leads to alpha behaviours such as jumping up, barking at strangers, pulling on the lead, separation anxiety etc. As soon as you learn to interpret these signals from the dog's point of view, and start to manage them by assuming the alpha role, you take a lot of responsibility and anxiety away from the dog.

Someone who could be petting a quiet dog who `out of nowhere' turns and bites, may well be dealing with a misguided alpha dog who is acting protectively, rather than aggressively, only we see it as aggression because we don't understand the signals.

Unless abused, tortured or raised on purpose to be aggressive, dogs just ARE NOT naturally aggressive, unless protecting members of their pack. There is no such thing as a `trigger' to make a good dog turn bad, just misread signs that lead to an unacceptable behaviour, leading from not the dog not understanding its role and acting from a misplaced attitude.

Trust me, if you are truly own the alpha role with your dog, it will never, ever do anything untoward, because that's not it's job, and dogs take these things very seriously.

Yes, it's the nature of the beast to operate like it would in a pack, but it's NOT the nature of the beast to be vicious or aggressive for no reason (even if we don't happen to see one) because that just ain't the way it is!

A very famous dog behaviourist and trainer, Jan Fennell, first came up with and used the `alpha' theory and another method called Amichien Bonding to interpret and explain dogs' behaviours, and to help with behaviour modification. She has had resounding international success, has a pack of eight dogs including German Shepherds, and has total control. She has successfully saved many, many dogs from being put down after being judged as `untrainable' or `too vicious' and turned them into well-adjusted, happy, gentle - and most importantly - properly understood dogs. She has developed a way for a dog's TRUE nature to show, and it's been an eye-opener and very pleasant surprise for many people who thought their `aggressive' dogs were beyond helping.

I've met much more aggressive nasty Jack Russels then Pit Bulls, I have to admit.

Yes, well, it was a Jack Russell that ran up to Ruby at the beach and bit her on the nose - and her owner tried to tell me it was just `dominance' behaviour. Maybe if she learnt to understand her dog a little better it wouldn't feel the need to bite bigger dogs (or display dominance behaviour at all, I might add)!

Thank you soo much for posting that Sarah! I was going to post longer, but I was getting upset so I kept it short. Do you have any tips on how to keep Willy from jumping up on us when he gets too exited? ( sorry for hijacking the thread )

Gemini, is there any news as of today?

Yup lots of tips! I'm actually going to start a `training tips' thread in this section so I'll cover it in there. It'll be tomorrow though cos it's bed time now!

I'm sure there's a clicker way to solve the problem, but I'll volunteer what worked for my dog - she was taught to jump up for attention at the shelter, so she was a toughie to teach to stay down. Dogs jump up because they want to get attention from you, so they try to get to your eye level. The best way to stop the jumping is to teach an alternative behavior - to sit politely in front of you when he wants attention. (I assume he already knows how to sit).

To teach him that sitting politely is what will get him the attention he wants, when he comes dashing up to you, tell him to sit - if he does, even for a moment, mark the occasion with a 'good dog!' or whatever your cue is, and give him lots of pets and attention at his eye level. Any time he jumps on you, react only by turning your body away from him and saying "off" (don't use "down" because that's a different action). Look away to the side and up with your head, so your body language tells him he's being impolite. Timing is very important - snub him right when he jumps on you, and praise him the moment he stops and his feet are back on the ground.

Don't push him away, as that can be seen as play, and he's still getting attention. Kneeing or hanging on to the legs is not a good idea either, because it can damage your dog's trust in you if you respond to a happy greeting with punishment.

And of course when he calms down enough to sit politely give him lots of loving. It doesn't take long for most dogs to figure out that's how you wish to be greeted. There may still be some happy bouncing and squirming before or after the sit, but that's better than getting jumped on.

Be consistent about it to avoid confusion - don't allow him to jump up sometimes and not others, depending on what you're wearing. After he's learned how to greet politely consistently, if you wish to allow him to jump up at certain times you can teach him a specific signal for that, but it's best to wait until his 'sit politely' greeting is rock-solid.

hth

*edit*
Sorry Sarah! I was typing this as you posted.

Thank you soo much Tuxedokitties! That helps alot! Because he is trained, and I taught him the up trick when he wants a treat, but not when I walk in the door LOL And I was making the mistake of pushing him down, which of course he thought was play so he keeps jumping back up. He will sit when you tell him even if I just walked in, but he will be soo exited he can't sit for long lol.

I look foward to your thread Sarah! I can't wait till you get it up! Another prob. if anyone wants to take ashot: When Willy and Lucy go out to pee, and Willy sees something like a rabbit, cat in the alley, anything he sees that does'nt belong-he goes nuts! He starts running all around -but thats not the problem, he will sometimes nip at lucy- or knock her over because he is running to fast. Now in the house he listens great, and him and Lucy can play fight outside fine-unless Willy gets in this super-hyper mode. What can we do to make him calm down and stop picking on Lucy?

You're welcome.

Article about critter chasing

This page has lots of useful canine behavior articles - I'm slowly working my way through them & learning a lot.

Nicole, Your roomate cannot hit this dog! That is how they get aggresive! Make her stop or find her a good home-if your roomate keeps hitting Brandy you will have to re-home her anyway as she will be very agresive. If she wants to train her herself, tell her to get a (clean) empty soda can, fill it with about 5-10 pennies-whenever Brandy gets out of hand shake the can, you will get her attention, then FIRMLY say NO! BAD DOG! Hitting a dog is SOOOOOOOOO not the answer! You will not get the results you think! Her mis-behaving needs to be re-directed- give her a toy to take out some of her playfullness. Also she needs to be walked at least once a day to help with the puppy hyperness. When she pees, she is too exited(sp?) she is really happy to see you! Hitting her will make her not so happy to see you or anyone else. Have you taken her to the vet for shots etc....? She really needs to be current on her puppy shots. There are too many canine diseases that are very deadly however there are vaccinations against them. Please get her shots!!!! Tell your roomate to stop hitting her, the dog is going to grow up to hate her!

Congradulations on being able to keep Brandy!

I agree with Marge. She can't keep hitting this pup, unless she just wants the dog to be scared of her. Fear leads to aggression. It's kinda like in Star Wars - Fear leads to Hate, Hate leads to the Dark Side. OK, back to seriousness...control does not mean to make the dog fear you, only to let her know that you two are at the top of the dog pack.

Training can be as much for the person owning the dog as for the dog. Going to a class like that will teach her how to communicate with Brandy in terms that Brandy will understand. She doesn't understand why she's being hit, she just understands that it hurts.

This is directed at your roomate ... NEVER EVER HIT A PIT BULL >>>OR ANY DOG ... My yorkie was hit at somept in the first three years... she IS DOG agressive( thou I am working with her ) , My father hit my german shepard (RIP JOEY) and for 13 yrs I had a male aggresive animal.... Neither of these dogs were at or are at fault but some DUMB human hit them and they are / were scared for life..

Jeesh. And people wonder why some animals `turn'. God what an idiot. How could you honestly hit an animal anyway? No matter what it did? They're only animals, and they only `misbehave' either because they haven't been taught properly, they don't understand what we want or we expect them to act like humans.

That makes me SO incredibly angry

No I don't - but you need to find out why she doesn't `approve' of you taking her to a trainer.

I think you should also explain to her that puppies/dogs etc are not `naughty' in their world - they are doing doggie things that doggies do. They don't understand what you want unless you take the time to teach them. Tell her you understand that it's frustrating but that the dog is not deliberately upsetting her and that hitting the dog will do NOTHING except hurt the dog, but won't make it understand the connection between doing something `wrong' and getting hit. The dog is not going to know what it did, it's just being a dog. And she needs to understand that they have a whole different understanding of the world and she can't expect the pup to act like a human child and understand her rules. Not only is hitting cruel, in this case it actually is pointless cos the dog's not going to get it, anyway. If she sees it from this point of view she may understand that hitting the dog is NOT going to help her gain control over it like she thinks, because it doesn't understand, it can't make the connection, and all she's going to do is make it fear her which means it'll be even less likely to obey her. Sometimes a little explanation is all it takes to change people's though patterns.

I definitely think that it is wrong to hit dogs.

And i would like to go back to the pit bull thing. They are dogs, and if raised right can make wonderful pets. They are not naturally agressive, mean, or vicious. I know a kid with large scars across his face, and when asked what they were from, he says it was a dog. When pressed, he replies that it was a cocker spaniel.

There is no reason to blame a breed when the owner is at fault. to the people that stood up for pit bulls.

Good luck with Brandy!

Pit Bulls have a very strong grip, and thus can pose a danger to other dogs (I've had that experience with Airedales, who were bred to hunt bears). Thus, obedience classes, where the dog learns to socialize with other dogs, are a very important experience for this type of dog. Besides, the "pack experience" is fun for the dog. Perhaps you should point that out to your roommate?
Brandy doesn't sound like she's aggressive, but she could still benefit from classes.

Obedience classes would be something to look into.
You go there with other people and their dogs or one on one with a trainer. You don't have to leave your dog alone with a trainer to do it for you. We used to take my dog to obedience classes and my dad kept him the whole time on a leash and the trainer told my dad what to tell the dog to do. There are other options then leaving your dog with a trainer, I don't know why someone would do that other then laziness. Does she know that?
She can also talk to the petsmart trainer people and tell them why she is concerned with it and see what they have to say. Try pointing that out to her. I don't know, if I gave a pet to someone and I witnessed the person hitting the dog I would take it back no ifs ands or buts. That is completely unexceptable. THAT IS THE WAY TO MAKE YOUR DOG AGRESSIVE. That is the kind of person I would do everything possible to keep my pets away from. If she did that to the dog she is probably doing that to your cats too.

Since you are keeping the dog, please make sure that the cats have places they can hide or climb quickly if she gets too rough for them. It sounds like she's being calm with them now, but better safe than sorry.

As your roommate wants to get control of the pup, both of you need to establish yourselves as pack leaders by ignoring Brandy when you come into the room, eat first (pretend to eat from her bowl before you put it down) and don't let her climb on top of you as this puts her in the dominant position. She'll be more likely to pay attention to you if she accepts you as the pack leader. Of course, she's not a mind reader, so obedience training is the thing to do. Let your roommate attend with you or at least read about it. Dogs don't reason the way we do and sometimes what seems to be an obvious way of communicating doesn't work with them. My husband and I had many disagreements about how to discipline my little dog until he heard it from the trainer himself.