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Please read-re: the kids - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Well what I really think is this.......

First off I just dont see where the kids posting in that monitored thread, or how Jocelyn handles the details and legal stuff, is anyones business except for Jocelyn, the kids parents, and Anne's!!!!

Well I just know from experience that you cant protect kids forever. You have to draw a line. If you do try to overprotect then they will be totally unprepared when they hit the real world. In my opinion it is much better to expose them gradually to some of it as their age permits and teach them to make the right kind of choices.

And folks lets all remember that these kids are learning valuable lessons that will serve them well in later life. I think the good outweights the any possible risks.
post #32 of 55
IMO it has nothing to do with them speaking about the case or the subject. It has to do with pictures on the internet along with some first and last names. It has to do with peoples oppionions on "exposing" children on the net. Some have a legal outlook and some have a personal outlook.
If it is on this site, it is persay our buisness because we have a right to say how we feel about it. Choices are one thing, but most children do not know what lurks out there.
post #33 of 55
While I agree somewhat with your post, I think that it was wholly inapropriate for it to be done here. Aside from the legal issues involved from both sides, having so much posted about a child on the internet is dangerous..

Remember, anyone who wanted could now find out about a child, at least one of thier names, easy to put a face with a name, and we also can find out what school they go to.

I hate to say this but that is entirely to much information for a public educator to be putting on the net, no matter what reason it's for.
In today's times, when, in addition to the things that have happened to kids that's already been posted, there has been at least one child 15, lured from the states to another country, a fifteen year old, so excuse me if im being a bit over protective, but it's my decision when and if I let go of the reins on my child, not her teachers..

As far as posting on a monitored thread... monitored by people who were never asked to monitor children, and now are put in that position. Obviously they are not being monitored well at the site of use, or there wouldn't be last names on the posts, but I guess that should have been caught by the mods here, like they don't have enough to do...

post #34 of 55
Well, problem #1 is that the parental decision was taken out of the loop. Secondly, as has been pointed out to me in the past, everyone here is free to speak his own opinion. In this case, my opinion is backed up by expertise I have in this area. Thirdly, when the policy of the site is to restrict membership and posting to members over the age of 12 unless direct parental consent has been obtained, I think it becomes an issue for all of us. You have every right to expose your children to the truths of the world at your own pace, but don't speak to me on how I decide to raise my children. The point of the exercise was to refresh and enlighten the adults as they saw the issue from the kids' point of view. That could have been accomplished in a different fashion. If you think the good outweighs the bad, you have never been subjected to a parental lawsuit brought about by what began as the sincerest of educational intentions.
post #35 of 55
Well what I really think is this.......
Excuse me folks.... but in case you missed it at the top of my post I was just voicing my opinion. Not telling you what your opinion should be.
post #36 of 55
Okay and as far as I can see that's all we are doing as well...

post #37 of 55
I've been sitting here looking at this thread for awhile now;not sure if I have any right to say a thing. Lord know's there's someone in this group who already considers me the second coming of Lucifer.

At any rate; I gather that everything was long settled and OK'd by Anne,so that should be the end of it.

The points that Deb25 and the others have raised give pause for thought. It's terribly sad that things have gone so far awry that every decision has to be made with perverts in mind. The question is at what point does protection become paranoia? Do we wind up locking them away? I don't envy the parents of today.

However,I don't see anything much here that would harm the kids. As was said,many are from homes where they know more about spouse abuse than we do. As for sexual innuendo...I see more in the music stores and tv programs than I do here.

Maybe we should think about that for awhile before we make our friend feel as if she didsomething shameful?
post #38 of 55
I really don't think anything was meant to make anyone feel shameful. The discussion may be somewhat heated, but the fact remains that alot of people with children have a very valid although sad point.
No, I don't want to lock my daughter up. As a parent, yes I would be upset if her school, picture or last name were put out there.When an adult does this, they have the means to protect themselves much more than a child. While yes they need to know what's out there, its our job to try and protect them the best we can until they have the resourses to protect themselves. I know in my every day life, I do little things to help ensure my safety silly or not. No it's not 100% that somethings not going to happen, but I feel better knowing I am trying the best I can.
post #39 of 55
Well, Kittyfoot, with all due respect to Anne, she is running this site from a country outside of the U.S. I am not trying to blast Jocelyn, but I have had concerns about the children posting since I saw it.

We can comment from here till eternity about the sad state of affairs in this country, but truth is, those conditions exist. I worked with a good friend who had a parent begin a lawsuit because a child walked into a pole in the hallway during a supervised educational activity.

Ken speaks the truth. There are dangers for kids all over the internet. When I was first online, my kids had their own little screen names on AOL. I left the room to go to the bathroom, and my daughter gave out password information to someone who asked her in a kids' chat room.

The point is that the adults post things here in a forum they assume is only going to be read by adults. We have covered this ground before, if you remember your history. If a child accesses this site due to parental oversight, he has nobody to blame but himself. But when the access was given by a teacher, you open up a whole new ballgame. Many parents who are downright negligent in their duties will be the first to point a finger at an educator who slips up in the least.

I'm not going to belabor the point any further. It would be a shame to see something unexpected come of this for Jocelyn when she only had the best of intentions.
post #40 of 55
I do believe that Jocelyn's an intelligent woman and has all bases covered. I'm taking Max out of the issue here, because as you know, I'm extremely involved with his case, but to start making judgements against a member about her discretion as a professional, in my opinion is out of line.

Ken, I did the same search and can get all the domain url's for the elementary schools not to mention homepages. Why should I post them here if you're going to come down on the pics already here...NO thanks. Also, go to AOL, MSN, GOOGLE, LYCO's and you'd really be surprised. I've witnessed and have IMG'd images from other websites of kids onto this site hearing no complaints from anyone.

So, the question is why NOW? Is it that we've got something to hide here? I don't think so since the kids are monitored by her. Why now when it comes to Jocelyn and allowing her class involved in issues such as this, on this Site? I don't get it...people, the woman is not exploiting the children...In my opinion, I bet those kids go home and if they're from the neighborhoods she says there in, how many of them are going to have internet access? Can their parent(s) afford it? If so, don't you think there's a heck of a lot more places they'd like to visit than a CatSite? These are all specualtions WE ARE ALL making here, I don't understand why it's been such a big deal with a few of you. Also, to say something so hurtful Ken is really so unlike you.

Another question comes to mind is what are the chances of someone looking into a CATSITE for children when they can just as easily perform the search that I did. There's a ton of pics on the Internet of children and their families, children in school rooms, children with their own sites...etc...I don't see why we just can't sit back and think before being so critical of another's position.

Our moderators do not have anymore of a bigger job than they had prior to the children posting. I'm sure you read Jocelyn's response as to how and when the children are permitted to post. She knows the parameters and has given them their own as well.

I'm surprised that some of you feel so judgemental about such a great person with a passion for what she believes in. She has helped each child express the same spirit each and everyone of us possess. To help children become PASSIONATE about a good cause instead of getting involved in the poisons within their environment, in my opinion, this person is virtuous, ethical and should be commended for her obvious love for children.

post #41 of 55
Deb and Sandie,et al; I do understand your point,honestly. I am not questioning your viewpoint at all. You have your own expertise to draw on and as I stated I don't envy your job of bringing up kids in today's world. I would not dream of telling you how to raise your children, I am not a parent. You folks have my greatest respect in your endeavours to provide a safe upbringing for your child. Good luck to you.

I do think that if you all had concrns tho,it would have been better to voice them and/or request Anne to set ground rules at the beginning of the idea rather than wait until this late date. Here it just looks like cheap-shotting and I'm sure that was not your intent. thing bothers me a little. Yes,Anne is running this site from a country outside the US. So what? The last time I looked this was not a US only site nor is this a US only issue. I DO hope that you are not implying that the views of the rest of us out here are somehow of less importance? Surely not.
post #42 of 55
Thread Starter 
I have solved the problem. I will be sending home a NEW permission slip for my parents. This one will be quite explicit and will explain each detail of what we are doing. Then, if a parent objects- their kid doesnt participate. Easy enough. In the mean time, I will continue to be the teacher that does what I do everyday. Make my students better people. If any of you have any further concerns, feel free to voice them. At this point I dont much care. You destroyed my beautiful night of sleep and made me so angry that I my good intentions are being questioned so. Thanks a bunch. Id like to think that you all did this out of good intentions, but then I have read the previous threads about Max...hmmmm
post #43 of 55
My son is in kindergarten, so I feel I am "knowledged" and at least have the right to voice an opinion here since I have first hand experience.

A child can be "lured" away probably more easily by just a stranger in person, versus someone who finds them on a website, and then has to find them in person as well. I mean, lets be realistic, there are a lot of whackos out there, and they have access to our children everyday: getting on and off the bus, field trips, walking to and from school, playing at recess. I mean realistically speaking, I think the risk is far greater just letting your children outside.

Secondly, Jocelyn should be commended for caring enough about her students to expose them to such things as current events and the internet to teach them about everyday stuff. Most teachers have a chalk board and textbooks...........and that is supposed to teach our children everything they need to know for later in life??

Thirdly, it is our job as parents and teachers to do just that...TEACH!! If your child is taught that the internet is tool that can be educational and that they are not allowed to just surf and read, then I think what Jocely is doing is fine. I mean, you let your kids cross the street at that age, hell they have a chance of getting hit but you teach them first to look first and listen closely before they cross and then you let them do it with your supervision until they can do it alone. I as a parent encourage my child to learn as much as he can, and I teach him right from wrong. My child would never just surf, and I know that because I trust him. And just because these kids come from perhaps low income or dysfunctional homes, that doesn't mean they cannot be taught.

Lastly, I think that Anne deserves more respect than what you are giving her. She made a call, and I think everyone here needs to respect it and let Jocelyn and her kids enjoy this site.
post #44 of 55

The issue of the U.S. is not to imply any thought of the U.S. being "better" than anyone else. My point is that I work in and understand the issues of school law as they apply to this country. I wouldn't begin to make the same observations as the situation applied in Canada, Israel, or anywhere else. I am not familiar with laws and policies in those places. Anne, being from outside the U.S., simply may not be aware of the red tape involved in the American school system.


My concerns have zero to do with the issue of your students posting over Max. They could have done research on cats and posted in health and nutrition, for all I care. The issue remains the same. I sat on my opinion on this to begin with because I had a feeling that it would be implied that my concern would be interpreted as "anti Max". I am not quite sure how I got labeled as someone who doesn't care about this animal abuse issue. I have not made it my personal crusade, but I admire those who have put time and energy into it. I'm sorry that you are angry. You made a judgment call that I don't agree with, and it happens to involve more than just your right to post whatever you want as an individual. As an educator, I have the safety and welfare of children foremost in my intentions, as well.
post #45 of 55
Jocelyn :angel2:
I hope all goes well for you today, as good thoughts are sent your way. I pray you achieve your goals today without a hitch and without any further thoughts of what happened yesterday.

It's a new day, smile and think of what I emailed you yesterday...."RIGHT NOW"

post #46 of 55
After thinking about these posts for a few hours, I think the best thing to do is answer everyone individually within this post.

But before I do, I want to make it very clear that I raised the issue of having children post here and was told that it had been worked out with Anne.. okay.. done deal.
I think that the Intent was good, as is the cause, and I believe that I've posted that previously... Having said that, here goes...


Of course you have a right to say what you feel, not that you need any validation from, but hey, this is a forum... lot's of us don't see eye to eye on issues, but at least (for the most part) we discuss it in an adult way. You're right, it is sad that we have come to this, it's a shame isn't it. As for paranoia.. I don't have an answer, it's funny though, well, not really, but when we lived in Southern California at the height of child stealing, our daughter was not allowed to play in the front yard unless one of us was out there to supervise, come close to locking one away... Sad we had to do that, but better safe than sorry.
As for kids seeing more risque things elsewhere, i tend to agree...
I don't really think that I have the power to make anyone feel in a way they don't want to, if our friend doesn't have anything to feel shamefull about, then our friend shouldn't, plain and simple. (more on that later)
Raising a child is hard, hardest thing I've ever done in my life, hardest thing is that you never know if you've done it right until it's too late to fix it.. you do the best you can...
Not sure if this was for all of us who voiced an opinion or for a specific person but, I have this feeling that a few folks didn't/haven't because of the fallout that would have ensued, it's happenned before and I can understand the delay, I simply didn't read it until last night, and I really don't think that expressing opinions based on facts as they are here is cheapshotting, again my opinion.


We will definately have to differ on the "professional discretion", the was no judgement to be made, as I said, had it been one of my daughter teachers who had done it, I would have puled her from the class and been standing on the principals desk. Without parental consent ahead of time, it's wrong.. if you don't think so.. I'm okay with that, but call your local elementary school and find out what their policy is...
Doing research to find the URL's of schools is not what I had said.. go to the pages, the ones I went to that were sponsor by school districts showed not a picture one of various student within..
You may have posted pic of kids on here.. okay, but did you post their full names as well as thier addresses? No.. don't think so, and if you had, I would have said the same thing to you. So im thinking that that answers the why now part, at least on my end... As for being monitored, I asnwered that in an earlier post as well, but it bares repeating evidentaly. It is fairly obvious that that were not monitored all that well as there is at least 3 who posted the full name and at least one who posted an email address. I bring that up because Juicelyn herself made it a point to explain how well they were/are being monitored and that wouldn't happen, I think it puts the MODS in an unfair position.

As for the rest of your post, it really doesn't matter about where the kids come from, their homelife whatever, nor does it really matter the likelyhood of someone finding this info and doing something with it. What is at issue, at least for me, is the fact that it was done without prior permission from the parents, and from someone who is entrusted with our childrens well being on a daily basis, it was wrong. Schools require parents to sign letters allowing there children ACCESS to the net, not to have this info posted. As far as that goes, no matter how much Juicelyn wanted to do a good thing, fact is that she represents, or is suppose to, the policies of the school, weather she agrees or not. I am indeed making an inference here.. the school does require such permission, therefore it must also have rules regarding posting of info as well. That is not speculation that is a fact. Again, it was a good idea, I think it should have been done alot different. If I hurt anyones feelings with what ive posted, I really can live with that.
I don't nessesarily feel i'm being judgemental about the person cat, her actions yes, most definatly, which I beleive to be wrong.


As for your first paragraph, I have no hard data to disagree, except to say that, there are pervs out there who have done exactly that... found a picture on the net and then found the person... it's fairly easy to do, and I don't think a teacher should make it any easier.

I have not sad anything as to weather Juicelyn cares.. its obvious she does, as Ive stated many times, it is the way in which she did it.. So ask yourself.. would you have approved of that had it been your child?

I agree, that is our jobs.. but if you think for one minute that kids will do the right thing all the time, every time, well, I disagree. Kids make mistakes, do thing they aren't supposed to, no matter how much we love them and trust them. It's what they do, it's also how they learn...
As for the part about where they come from and their ability to learn... unless I missed something, that wasn't brought up, at least not in the context to which you refer.

I also fail to see where anyone has disrespected Anne, if nothing else it is because we respect Anne that this is being talked about. If you don't see that, perhaps if you read all the parts about liability issues some of us were concerned about then you might see it.


I'm glad you sending permission slips home.... Doesn't solve the problem though.. fact is, as I see it, those should have gone home before any of this was posted.. Opt-out learning exercises, doesn't work either... there's a point of law about that somewhere. Let's just say they say no, I dont want my child to participate... guess what.. to late.. they already have. As for the rest of your post, no-one doubts the fact that you are trying very hard to make a difference, simply that part of the way in which you tried to do it, was to some of us, not right. If I made you angry, Okay, I made you angry... as far as having good intentions, well, my intentions was to express my feeling about the situation, which I think I have made abundantly clear. I just now wonder, why, having the conviction to stand for what you beleive in, are you so readily trying to "fix" something that you didn't think was broken in the first place?


KF.. I probably just took your title....
post #47 of 55
Ken..tell you what;we'll share the title on a rotational basis. If all else fails I've got a match and we can go start our own hot spot.

I'm glad to see that you,Deb25 and all the others are concerned about the kids. That's highly commendable.

I do wish tho that these concerns could have been addressed a couple of days ago when the plan for this thread was announced,rather than half-way thru the process. That's what I meant by looking like cheap shotting.I know you aren't.

Further,every admin course I ever took taught me that you NEVER publicly chastise a person about their project. Doing so in this context gives the appearance of trying to railroad the effort and that is unfortunate. How would you feel if an exec from a company you don't work for walked in and started running down the job you're doing? I guess our admin styles are just different.
post #48 of 55
About the admin...

you are, of course, right...

I think that I just get bent rather quick about this kind of issue, more so because of the circumstances involved, but, as Im sure you had noticed, The original poster was the one who started the thread.
Had this been a company, I would have handled it differently. Turns out that there's been all sorts of the same kind of posting in the thread it was started about... I'll stay out of that one..

post #49 of 55
Thread Starter 
I just wanted to thank all of you for your kind comments and concerns. I have spoken to a number of parents re: this matter and they are in complete support of what I am doing. In addition, in discussion with my mentor within the school, our paperwork covers this situation. Again, your concerns are appreciated. However, the goal was never to put my kids at risk...I know you might find that hard to believe. Have a wonderful time...
post #50 of 55
but I will say this...

complete agrrement or not, your own school district doesn't even put name with pics... or even discernable faces on the net..
I can see you're not going to get the point and that's okay.... but I know you'll never teach my child.

And I am having a wonderful time Thanks...

Even having to step over the smugness

post #51 of 55

Well, be that as it may Ken, I just wanted to say that finally being able to access this site, I'm soooooo happy for Jocelyn to teach these children and give them the opportunity to learn that their voices are being heard by many for fighting for a just cause.

Why, they may even learn some Internet Ettiquette :laughing2 Something, I think could be of great value on or off the Internet.

I really don't think putting in the digs were necessarry though, not to mention, I really never expected that out of you.

post #52 of 55
Thread Starter 
Ken, I just want to say that I took some time away from this situation and then came back to reread your most recent (and longest) comments. I truly appreciate your concern. I mean that with all sincerity. However, I have quickly discovered and have begun to understood what a FLAME was. I have had my backside ripped apart by a number of people on this site. My bottom line is this- it was/is my understanding that my consent forms that I currently have are acceptable. You ask, however, why I would be so quick to fix something I don't think is broken. I would like to respond and say that IMO it isnt, however, seeing that a number of you had concerns (which have never been a problem in my past, including posting my kids on my personal webpage) I wanted to give my parents the opportunity to make the choice. I have dealt with a number of schools that show the students, as stated b4 my own page has my kids on it. It has never been an issue. The intent wasnt to put them at harm, and I guess, maybe in my complete and utter failure in your and DEB25's eyes, I didnt think it to be harmful. I am frustrated in the manner the concerns were addressed. You ripped my idea to shreds and insulted me. Not appropriate in my eyes. Finally, I was not being SMUG. I am not a smug person. However, as a teacher, psychologist, nurse, parent, lunch lady, lice checker, school supply buyer, and all the other jobs I do daily, not to mention a yankee in a southern state, I have to have confidence. That includes not allowing people to ruin 2 nights in a row. I have taken this to prayer...its out of my hands. It sounds to me like you are a wonderful and caring father- I just hope you reprimand your children with more respect than I was shown. Seriously- there are appropriate ways to handle things. I am not only addressing you, but also our future administrator. Try tearing into a teacher in public like you have done me...If it were me, I would have already called my union rep. only on the principle in which I was treated. I dont deny PMs..
post #53 of 55
I must say that you're one tough cookie. Smart one too

post #54 of 55

Seems that its okay for you to get little "digs" in from time to time, and extremely quick to point at others just as quick.. especially when they don't agree with you.. I accept that..

As for flaming, Juicelyn, you haven't been flamed, not even close. Remember that you are the one who started this thread, and if you can't take the comments then perhaps you shouldn't have. As DeD25 and I, well, it is fairly obvious that you haven't paid much attention, otherwise you would have noticed there is more than just Deb and I unhappy about the why you did this... I guess they have more sense than we do and recognized that beating their head against a wall wouldn't do any good.

Tell ya something, You have absolutely no idea what kind of father I am, and your little dig trying to upset me didn't work..
Ive raised three kids, have spent the last 20 years dealing with "kids", I know that probably doesn;t come close to all the experience you have however.

As for dealing with teachers, union rep or no, I have stood up and protected my children from teachers who thought they were doing the right thing several times, not a task I take lightly definately not one I have ever lost, not when kids are involved.
I've read your district policies on internet use, as generic as they are, I really believe that should this be challenged by a parent, it would not be a light matter, at least not as light as you make it out to be. I also know that sometimes in an efort to do what we think is right, fair and just, we blind ourselves to reality.. What's that saying... the road to ruin is paved with good intentions..

I'm done with this, and I truly hope it all works outs and the kids get something out of it...

post #55 of 55
What can I say Ken, you're right...I have done that...I just said that I never expected it out of other words, I thought you weren't capable of my own faults...

So, it was more than what it appeared. I hope that we can remain friends and there's no hard feelings

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