can i get a man's point of view? girls feel free to chip in too

deb25 · Mar 21, 2005

HE walked out on HER. I am sorry, but advice on being a Christian doesn't seem to be helpful in this case. If his lovey-dovey intentions aren't honorable, then they only serve to keep Tigger in a place where she is unable to heal and move on. I get it that she should attempt to keep the marriage together and has done so, but given his actions, she needs to look out for herself first.

KittenKrazy · Mar 21, 2005

Coming from one who is much better at giving advice than taking advice that is given to me and running with it, the ladies here have made some great points! I just wanted to tell you that you're in my prayers, and if you need to talk, I'm almost always around!

ugaimes · Mar 21, 2005

First off:

What he is doing to you right now is emotionally abusive. He is telling you one thing ("I'm not into you") but acting in so many odd ways. He is treating you like his yo-yo, all because he knows that he has control over your emotions. This is YOUR time to find out what makes YOU happy and to seek independence from him and his controlling behaviors.
I work with clients each day who have been emotionally,verbally, or otherwise abused by their parnters. Though there might be no violence in your relationship, it is important for you to seek help for the emotional abuse that you are experiencing. If you go to this website, you may find info on a domestic violence prevention agency in your community. http://www.ncadv.org/ The support groups that they run can be extremely helpful to survivors who are seeking the help and strength to get out of toxic relationships.
I know what you are going through is very very difficult and that only you and your husband truly can understand what is happening right now. But if you need someone to talk to, please feel free to pm me.
Again,

. You're in my thoughts.

lottomagicz4941 · Mar 21, 2005

So he walked out on her everyone makes mistakes. First off she is saying that her husband is a jerk. My wife use to threaton to walk out on me in restraunts. But I am the only one of us who has been so emotionally tormented to walk out of the restraunt. Was she calling him a jerk before he walked out? Giving advice is hard when you don't know the people involved.

I was just giving general advice. She was asking for a guys opinion. And said you gals could also give opinion. So I'm not just giving unsocilated advice. If she were single I would say leave the jerk. But since there has been a vow of till death do us part I say give it an extra chance to work out.

I know of a man who ran out on his family. His wife never divorced him. They are praze the Lord back together. And in her case I would not have critized her for leaving.

I love my wife but she can be verbally abusive. Her best friend's boyfriend was out of a job. She pressued him to get a job and he did in another state!!! Women are not always as inocent as they pertend. Some psychologist say losing a job for a guy is almost as tramatic as a woman getting rapped. A man's self esteem is in having a good job or an attractive gal on his arm. We are very superfical beings. And we get defensive when put down. So if you want a jerk then call us a jerk. Words have power. God said let there be light and there was light.

I'm not just a guy I'm a christian guy. Perhpas if I wen't a christian I would have already left my wife for some of the mean things she has done to me. Stuff like threatoning to divorce me within our first year of marriage mainly over a health condition I had when we were married. What part of in sickness or in health did she not understand when we made our vows to God?

It is sad how the Churched and the unchurched have similar divorce rates. I would rather die then lose my wife. Saying he is not into you may be a defence mechonism. It may not be honest. Perhpas he is not being honest with himself. "A love that was is a love that is. All lovers are deranged and determained to relive the pain" some lyrics I hope are not to far off from David Gilmore About Face or perhaps his first solo recording.

I'm not the best Christian and "when I was stone blue rock and roll really helped me through" Foghat

Why are you gals so quick to say the guy is manipulating? My experience with women leads me to think this cognition on your parts may be cognition. Are you gals so jealous when a woman has a jerk that you push her to leave?

And when I was in college I got so sick of the jerks always having the women. I did a experment. I just started to be verbally abusive and sure enough some gals started to get all clinggy. Well one of these clinggy gal's boyfriends attacked me from behind and when I defended myself and planted his face into the nearest tree she went back to him claiming that I was just as bad as him. The police let me go saying his blood alchool was so high he would have been going to the hospital eventually anyway. At least this gal told the police the truth before she left me. As all his frat buddies were claiming that he attacked me. Since your being abusive calling him a jerk chances are he is also verbally abusive.

My advice to women is don't call a guy a jerk unless you want him to be one. My mom use to always say make your words sweet incase you have to eat them. Also you get more flies with honey then vinigar. I don't know why you would want a fly but. . . . I think you get the meaning of the message.

ugaimes · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by LottomagicZ4941

I was just giving general advice. She was asking for a guys opinion. And said you gals could also give opinion. So I'm not just giving unsocilated advice. If she were single I would say leave the jerk. But since there has been a vow of till death do us part I say give it an extra chance to work out.

I'm not just a guy I'm a christian guy. Perhpas if I wen't a christian I would have already left my wife for some of the mean things she has done to me. Stuff like threatoning to divorce me within our first year of marriage mainly over a health condition I had when we were married. What part of in sickness or in health did she not understand when we made our vows to God?

So, because you are Christian, you should stay in an abusive marriage? Let me tell you something honey. I have had clients who have stayed with very abusive partners because their pastors told them to, only to come into MORE abuse, even more brutal than before. And yes, one of them almost DIED.
Anyone who believes in a LOVING God knows that God wishes for His people to be safe and free of abuse, even if that means divorce. Do you mean to tell me that, if someone is Christian, they should put up with any type of abuse (whether it be emotional, verbal, physical, or other) simply because they made a vow? Right....

Originally Posted by LottomagicZ4941

And when I was in college I got so sick of the jerks always having the women. I did a experment. I just started to be verbally abusive and sure enough some gals started to get all clinggy. Well one of these clinggy gal's boyfriends attacked me from behind and when I defended myself and planted his face into the nearest tree she went back to him claiming that I was just as bad as him. The police let me go saying his blood alchool was so high he would have been going to the hospital eventually anyway. At least this gal told the police the truth before she left me. As all his frat buddies were claiming that he attacked me. Since your being abusive calling him a jerk chances are he is also verbally abusive.

I'm not even going to touch that with a 10-foot pole...

I realize this is taking the thread off-topic and I apologize. But I feel WAY TOO STRONGLY about this topic not to throw my 2 cents in!

lottomagicz4941 · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by Deb25

HE walked out on HER. I am sorry, but advice on being a Christian doesn't seem to be helpful in this case. If his lovey-dovey intentions aren't honorable, then they only serve to keep Tigger in a place where she is unable to heal and move on. I get it that she should attempt to keep the marriage together and has done so, but given his actions, she needs to look out for herself first.

This is the quote of my previous post. If she took a vow till death do us part then perhpas she should not be moving on!!!!

Perhpas you know more about this situation as you claim that she has attempted to keep this marriage together.

Did she call him a jerk before or after he walked out?

Many men in our society are taught to not display our fealings. And this is unhealthy. It is part of why we have higher blood pressure. We internalize things. When my cousin died of cancer it was not until I read an articale 3 years later about how crying releases toxins that I was able to cry.

Once again I did not give unsoliciated advice. I did give the best advice that I can give as a mear man. How can Christian advice not be helpful? Perhpas I just did not give enough of it?

Once again I would advise women not to call us men names. Focuse on the problem behavior. Ask for the reasons behind the behavior. Don't just assume the guy is being minipulative becasue your minipulative. My wife calls me selfish and at first it hurt. And it still hurts very much. And sometimes when I am tired I remember her hurtfull selfish comment and I do less because my best is often not good enough for her.

I saw my dad working very hard to clean the house to make my mom happy and she would just nit pick some spot he missed. Then she would wonder why he does not help with the house.

deb25 · Mar 21, 2005

This is not the first time Tigger has posted on this topic. If you are a regular on this board, she posted several other threads about the situation. To the best of my recollection without actually searching, he walked out on her shortly after Christmas, without warning. He has since been dating. She told him quite plainly she wanted to go to counseling and try to work things out. He has been unwilling to have any part in it. She has had to sell her house and move into an apartment. This thread is a 'latest development' where now he is suddenly trying to keep her within reach. Calling him a jerk is a reaction to how he is suddenly lovey-dovey one day and telling her basically get lost the next. My original advice stands. She should in no way sit around and wait for some guy who is out sewing his wild oats due to some vow. Doesn't that vow apply to him as well?

(Sorry if I bungled some of the details, Tigger.)

ugaimes · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by Deb25

This is not the first time Tigger has posted on this topic. If you are a regular on this board, she posted several other threads about the situation. To the best of my recollection without actually searching, he walked out on her shortly after Christmas, without warning. He has since been dating. She told him quite plainly she wanted to go to counseling and try to work things out. He has been unwilling to have any part in it. She has had to sell her house and move into an apartment. This thread is a 'latest development' where now he is suddenly trying to keep her within reach. Calling him a jerk is a reaction to how he is suddenly lovey-dovey one day and telling her basically get lost the next. My original advice stands. She should in no way sit around and wait for some guy who is out sewing his wild oats due to some vow. Doesn't that vow apply to him as well?

(Sorry if I bungled some of the details, Tigger.)

Well-put Deb!

fwan · Mar 21, 2005

I might be catholic
but you know what?
Religion isnt real, its just something for us to follow.

Tigger

If you lived closer id take you out with me coz i get real lonely too even with my bf! I know its hard to get over relationships but with in time you will get to go out and meet new people who will furfill your life

valanhb · Mar 21, 2005

You know, this isn't the first post Tigger has made about this situation, which is why some of us are giving her the advice we have. Yes, he walked out on her. Yes, she did try to get him to go to marriage counceling, and tried very hard to work on the marriage and relationship. He refused all of it and only insisted on getting a divorce. So now she's supposed to keep their vows while he won't? Gimme a break! That's just plain idiotic to expect her to pine for him while he has made it abundantly clear that he does NOT want to work on keeping the marriage. Does it matter what is most healthy for her? Would your God want her to be healthy or emotionally confused and abused?

It seems you also have a pretty bad view of women, from the bits of experiences you've shared. Not all women are innocent, true enough. But not all of us are nit-picking name-calling nags either. Is Tigger a totally innocent bystander in the problems in her marriage? Probably not. But it sure isn't fair to say that her calling him a jerk (after he left her) is the cause of all of this! Once again...HE left her. HE refused marriage counceling. HE is the one sending her mixed signals, insisting that it's over and yet hanging on and expecting her to still do things for him. HE is the jerk in this situation!

katspixiedust · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by LottomagicZ4941

Once again I would advise women not to call us men names. Focuse on the problem behavior. Ask for the reasons behind the behavior. Don't just assume the guy is being minipulative becasue your minipulative. My wife calls me selfish and at first it hurt. And it still hurts very much. And sometimes when I am tired I remember her hurtfull selfish comment and I do less because my best is often not good enough for her.

I saw my dad working very hard to clean the house to make my mom happy and she would just nit pick some spot he missed. Then she would wonder why he does not help with the house.

I'm sure you're just trying to give the best advice you can, but DO NOT generalize women like that. If you think that men are any LESS manipulative or hurtful than women you are sadly mistaken. Just because you perceived your parents relationship one way does not mean it has any bearing on the rest of the world. Not only that, but it doesn't mean that you perceived it the correct way. Even if you did, there are guaranteed to be some things that you had missed. Bringing up a story about your parents does not mean anything for the current situation, nor about women in general. PERIOD.

hissy · Mar 21, 2005

Interesting view from a christian to be sure. The book I suggested to Tigger to read was written by a born-again Christian to help others, not just Christians get out of bad situations. Just because it is what some believe, that marriage is eternal, it is not what others believe. At any rate it isn't about religion it is about a relationship with God. Perhaps she is unequally yoked with a non-believer, should she then stay? If you say yes, then you need to re-read your Bible-

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

II Corinthians 6:14

Thankfully my old church Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa does not share your view of marriage. When I divorced my first husband many years ago I entered into their Divorce Recovery classes (where this book was passed out to all of us) and I learned the danger of staying with a partner that is not healthy to the mind, soul or spirit.

ugaimes · Mar 21, 2005

Tigger, as you can see, 99% of us are behind you- and PASSIONATELY so!!!

ugaimes · Mar 21, 2005

MA, I'm glad you suggested that book. I'm always on the lookout for books to recommend to clients who are facing that eternal question "Should I stay or should I go." This may help others with the tough decision and I thank you!

pat · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by fwan

I might be catholic
but you know what?
Religion isnt real, its just something for us to follow.

Tigger

If you lived closer id take you out with me coz i get real lonely too even with my bf! I know its hard to get over relationships but with in time you will get to go out and meet new people who will furfill your life

Fwan,
But to many, religion is real - a main component of what life is about...having said that, calling oneself a Christian isn't the same as behaving as one.

I think Tigger deserves all our caring and support and not to be questioned during this difficult, confusing time.

hissy · Mar 21, 2005

Amen!

Tigger we are here for you whenever you need to talk, vent or whatever. Keep being strong and stay away from the man who wants to use you as his playtoy-

ugaimes · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by hissy

Amen!

Tigger we are here for you whenever you need to talk, vent or whatever. Keep being strong and stay away from the man who wants to use you as his playtoy-

That goes for ANYONE (man or woman!) reading this who may find themselves in a similar situation!!!

KittenKrazy · Mar 21, 2005

Lottomagic, Just as you ask us not to generalize men, I would ask you to not group all women together, ok? Tigger came to us to give us her opinions on what we thought was going on with her ex and the things he was doing. She did NOT ask us to judge either of them, whether by our own beliefs or the Bible....religion was never brought up in her request, so its really not necessary to shove it down anyone's throat. I too am a Christian, and I understand how you feel, but when one partner has left, it is no longer " how to make it work" but, how to finish dissolving this relationship! And it would probably surprise you, and anyone who knows me, but even I have considered leaving my husband, and both of us are Christians, just because things got to be more than I could bear.

lottomagicz4941 · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by valanhb

You know, this isn't the first post Tigger has made about this situation, which is why some of us are giving her the advice we have. Yes, he walked out on her. Yes, she did try to get him to go to marriage counceling, and tried very hard to work on the marriage and relationship. He refused all of it and only insisted on getting a divorce. So now she's supposed to keep their vows while he won't? Gimme a break! That's just plain idiotic to expect her to pine for him while he has made it abundantly clear that he does NOT want to work on keeping the marriage. Does it matter what is most healthy for her? Would your God want her to be healthy or emotionally confused and abused?

It seems you also have a pretty bad view of women, from the bits of experiences you've shared. Not all women are innocent, true enough. But not all of us are nit-picking name-calling nags either. Is Tigger a totally innocent bystander in the problems in her marriage? Probably not. But it sure isn't fair to say that her calling him a jerk (after he left her) is the cause of all of this! Once again...HE left her. HE refused marriage counceling. HE is the one sending her mixed signals, insisting that it's over and yet hanging on and expecting her to still do things for him. HE is the jerk in this situation!

Don't think I said her calling him a jerk caused any of this. I asked if she called him a jerk before or after he walked out.

My wife is still upset her friend took back the guy who left to get a job in another state.

Once again I stated that my advice not knowing the people involved is only general.

I don't think people should be abusing people---Verbally or physically!!!!!

And if the unchristian is willing to stay with the christian I believe the Christian is to honnor their commitment.

He who tries to save his life shall lose it. What is wisdom to man is foolishness unto the Lord and perhpas it was foolish for me to give advice to someone who I don't know. But we are to be fools for the Lord.

I still stand by my orginal advice. Don't insult men. I never said that anyone should stay in an abusive relationship. You can do what you can to improve the other person. I am working on getting my wife to be less abusive. And she was wonderfull when I married her. Part of it is she lowered her Paxil for the babie and perhpas that was a mistake.

She asked for a man's opinion and I have given a man's opinion.

Projection is a psychological phenomum.

I went to counseling with my wife and she quit as soon as the counselor sided with me on a few issues. I love my wife and would rather die then lose her. "Critisim is strong where love is week" Why did he refuse to go to counseling is more important then him refusing to go to counseling.

Trust me I saw my dad try to make my mom happy. Sometimes when she was out of the house he would make me clean for hours and it still was not good enough for her.

What is wrong with my advice to do divorce as a last ditch. If your claiming she already did this then my advice has already been followed.

It is better not to make a vow then to break it. That is Bibical but I don't recall the reference.

I am not the bad guy. I am just a guy who saw a thread asking for a guys opinion. I am new here and this is my first post on this event. It starts out with her claiming he is a jerk and we don't have any of his side. My God permits divorce because of the hardness of man's hearts. It is not a good thing but it is permitted.

ugaimes · Mar 21, 2005

Originally Posted by LottomagicZ4941

You can do what you can to improve the other person. I am working on getting my wife to be less abusive.

The only thing I will comment on is this statement. The only person that can work on improving (within the contexts of being abusive) is the person who is being abusive! Abuse is a learned behavior, one which takes YEARS of therapy to change, if it ever changes at all. This is why so many people end up in abusive relationships for far too long- they believe that they can change their abuser, but they cannot. If someone is being abused, the only thing that they can change is themselves: are they willing to put up with the abuse, wait for the abuser to hopefully change (years down the road, if at all), or get out for the sake of their own well-being?

can i get a man's point of view? girls feel free to chip in too

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