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OK - here goes. We're adopting a daughter and she needs prayers. - Page 10

post #271 of 414
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Cirque
If she was in a program under lock and key sooner, she would not have been in the car and trying to jump out.

Has anyone considered doing it the old fashioned way and just locking her in a padded room for as long as takes so she can get it out of her system? Yeah its painful, yeah it sucks, and sure there is always the temptation to go back to the drug later (but thats always there).. but perhaps the memory of the experience would make an impression. She would have to "work" through it instead of going to sleep and waking up after a "rapid detox".

Perhaps I am just not feeling very understanding today or I do not fully understand herion (more likely), but I have seen people lie and use others so I suppose that has jaded me some. For me it comes down to actions not just words and "intent". Oh well, I am still wishing all the best for her and you two for trying to take care of her.
The problem here is that Naomi is not a minor, and legally there is nothing anyone, not even her biological parents, can do. Locking an adult into a padded room for as long as it takes to detox is legally kidnapping, and if Naomi were upset enough, she could rightfully and legally press charges once she had access to a telephone...if she survived the cold turkey quit. She was a "large" user of heroin, which makes a cold-turkey quit that much more dangerous, and she has had seizures that placed her in critical care during past detoxes.

The other problem is that especially with heroin addicts and alcoholics, forced detox almost never works, which is why no psychiatrist, therapist or social worker trained in addiction problems recommends it. The user has to be committed to quitting.

It's easy to look at the situation and think we've been soft or functioning as "enablers." I certainly thought less of Gary's mom when I judged her as being "an enabler" when she was in a similar situation with Gary's sister. On the other hand, being in the situation now, as a parent, and functioning on the advice of trained professionals, I see it quite differently. We certainly provide(d) the space for Naomi to use heroin, but the other choice was to say "stop using or get out" - and that was not the commitment we wanted to make. The whole point of having her move in with us (apart from the fact that we're adopting her and already feel about her and think of her as our daughter) was to help provide the resources for her to get clean (when she was ready, which she supposedly was, though we knew that may not have been the case), to provide a motivation to get clean (some kind of life, like college) which she'd never had before - and to have her be healthy and safe, so she wasn't sleeping on the streets of NYC, and so she wasn't in a situation where she could be raped and assaulted again. (Part of the problem with heroin is that when addicted, people are willing to put themselves in positions where they can get raped or assaulted). We had no idea if she was actually ready to quit using heroin or not, and it didn't really matter. Even if she never wanted to quit, she was welcome to live here in safety.

However, if we ever suspected she is/was dangerous to herself or others, we could have an ambulance take her to the hospital where she would be evaluated - but if she was determined to have psychiatric problems, then she would be committed by the State, and no one other than the hospital staff would have any say about what happens to her. She could then be committed for as long as they want her to be, which is what essentially has happened.

Naomi did not have a correct understanding of the program she just committed to. The counselor never called last night, but did call this morning. She did enter herself into the program, but it is a combined detox/rehab program, and because she showed up with heroin in her possession, despite the fact that she entered the program voluntarily, because she was just in court for a possession charge and the "sentence" was detox and community service, showing up at this detox with heroin in her possession she's in violation of the case dismissal agreement, and her leaving the program is no longer voluntary.

Fortunately this program does include psychiatric evaluation and treatment. She hasn't been diagnosed yet, but we've talked to her psychiatist out here, and she said from what we communicated that Naomi will likely be diagnosed as a paranoid schitzophrenic - we already knew about the manic depression. So the staff will determine if she leaves the detox program after five or seven days, and then she's moved into rehab for anywhere from 28 days to nine months, at their discretion. She's on 20mls of Methadone (at her level of heroin use, an equivalent dose of methadone would be 80mls), and that will be scaled down to 15 while in detox, then from 15 to 0 over 28 days in rehab. How long after that they'll keep her, we have no idea. But it could be anywhere up to another eight months.

There is no visiting during detox; there is visiting three times a week in rehab, though we don't know which facility they'll transfer her to for rehab yet.

So while we didn't force her into a padded room and lock the door, Naomi took the step herself. She knew she was committing to the detox and one month of rehab. She didn't know that because of the circumstances they'd be able to keep her up to nine months. But either way she's got a fighting chance now of staying clean after she gets out of the program. We'd discussed her probable need for an in-patient rehab program, which she's never been interested in before (I mean before us - and we looked for "known" facilities at the recommendation of friends and doctors, and of course they're full with waiting lists...). So it would appear that this psychological break she just experienced provided the final motivation she apparently needed.

Gary's on his way to the Bronx now, dropping off some clothes and books, as she didn't leave prepared to be gone for a month (or more). She called shortly after Gary left, and I talked with her for a while. She sounded pretty good, actually. Certainly much better than yesterday. More importantly, she's really happy with the decision she made, and she feels like it's really important she be in an in-patient program so that's she's with other people going through it, she can get the therapy she needs and work to get her dosage levels right (whether it's lithium or paxil or whatever) while in a monitored environment, and she can vent any range of emotions and not worry about how anybody's going to feel. I agreed with her 100%, and told her how proud I am of her for doing this on her own. Which I also think is important.
post #272 of 414
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by fwan
I didnt mean that naomi should go to heaven.
I was just saying that my mother is going to be 54. she has already wasted nearly half of her life on alcohol.
At the rate she is going i dont see her living past 60.
Not sure about 55. My mother has let us down 3 times already.
We had to send her to a psysiactric clinic. because the first time
she was throwing chairs at me and trying to burn me with her ciggarettes.
She smashed the window (on the door because theres a glass on the kitchen door) my bf was really lucky because i dont know how but he just said quick hide she is about to smash it.. and she did and my bf was lucky that he didnt get cut because he stood right infront of it.

The second time was when she started screaming and neighbours were complaining and she kept on saying she was going to kill her self

the third time where she really did nearly jump out of the window.
I screamed and she was nearly out and my bf just grabbed her and pulled her back in.
we called the ambulance and they took her away.
she kept on telling everyone it was a joke what she did.
As mean as my dad is, he keeps on taking her back when he sees her sober.
although soon enough she will start drinking again.
It took her only 3 weeks and she was back onto the bottle.

Now im stuck with everybody telling me including lawyers and doctors that they cannot do anyhing for her and that she has to want it.
The only way we can force her is by taking her to court.
and take her "adultness" away. which means she has to go to a therapy program for a year

I dont know which option to choose.
One part of me is "let her be happy if she wants to drink"
and the other part is "but i love my mum when she is sober i dont want her to go im only 18 and i still need her"

I am sure you have so much love for naomi that is unable to describe.
But i hope that naomi doesnt let you down as much as my mother did through out these whole years.

When you have so much love for someone, the patience is unlimited.
you just keep on forgiving them, untill something bad happens and you blame your self for it because you think you could have made it better.
Where as in reality, you couldnt have changed it in any other way.

Fwan, I did misunderstand what you wrote, and I'm so sorry. Your post brought tears to my eyes too. Thankfully Naomi's never gotten violent with us, though it appears it could have been a possibility. I know, at least a little bit now, of the stress and fear and anger - and love - you've experienced. You are a wonderful daughter. I'm so sorry your mum hasn't found the strength to fight this.
post #273 of 414
It is great that she is actually IN a program now. Perhaps her having something on her was a blessing in disguise then if it means they get to keep her wether or not she wants to stay. It sounds like she is making some good progress this time around, good luck.
post #274 of 414
Wow. I'm more bothered about the "paranoid schizophrenia" diagnosis than the heroin addiction, to tell you the truth. You and Gary will be in for a rollercoaster ride for the rest of your lives if she is really schizophrenic. We've been dealing with a family member who is schizophrenic for 23 years, and it simply uses up all your reserves. People have kicked heroin addictions, but schizophrenia is something that has to be kept under control with medications, and they have to be constantly adjusted. There doesn't appear to be any fail-safe "cure". I know this is going to sound harsh, but both of you are going to have to determine your individual "breaking points", and do everything you can not to exceed them. For your own sakes.
post #275 of 414
just found this thread by chance, it's a fascinating read. I've never even been close to a situation like yours, in fact, i've never met an addict in my life.

In truth, i was actually going to say some words against you helping this woman you met, who's not related to you in any way. Something to the fact of: she'll rob you, don't trust an addict, don't trust a schitzo, better spend your money and time somewhere else, close to heart.

But in reading your posts, i've changed my opinion. It seems to me this IS close to heart, and you do sincerely understand that what you're doing will not have an immidate positive result, it may never have a positive result for that matter.

In any case, do you and Gary have any children of your own? I think you will make a wonderful mother, but without knowing your age, i can't say what's out there for you.

Just want to wish you all the best and good luck. You've gotten yourself in something which will probably last decades - and bring joy as well as tears, but you seem prepared and ready

Best Wishes!
post #276 of 414
What you're doing is so great. It is a very hard thing for people to really understand unless they've been there or learned about it. I actually have recently learned about addictions through my cognitive psychology class and I wholeheartedly believe that you're doing the right thing. It's a very delicate situation, and I think you're walking the line quite nicely. Keep holding on!
post #277 of 414
Originally Posted by jcat
Wow. I'm more bothered about the "paranoid schizophrenia" diagnosis than the heroin addiction, to tell you the truth. You and Gary will be in for a rollercoaster ride for the rest of your lives if she is really schizophrenic. We've been dealing with a family member who is schizophrenic for 23 years, and it simply uses up all your reserves. People have kicked heroin addictions, but schizophrenia is something that has to be kept under control with medications, and they have to be constantly adjusted. There doesn't appear to be any fail-safe "cure". I know this is going to sound harsh, but both of you are going to have to determine your individual "breaking points", and do everything you can not to exceed them. For your own sakes.
That was my reaction, too. My brother-in-law has paranoid schizophrenia. it is not an easy thing to deal with. The 2 months he lived with us one summer were really hard on me and my DH. It may seem easier than the drug addiction right now, but it really isn't. Do take care of yourselves.
post #278 of 414
Thread Starter 
Well, there's really no way for any of the Docs to make an actual diagnosis until she's clean. We spoke to her friend Peter who's known her for quite some time, and he's of the opinion that whatever mental disorder(s) she may have, other than depression they don't seem to exhibit themselves except during and just after detox.

The bottom-line is no one really knows. She definitely had some kind of freak-out - but whether or not it's an actual mental disorder or whether it's due to the detox/drugs, they really can't say.

Either way, Naomi is no longer some stranger we're "helping" nor some homeless person to whom we're providing a space to live. We expected a roller-coaster ride - though how "scary" the ride will be we have no way of knowing. I just know she's had every opportunity to steal from us and hasn't. She speaks degradingly of junkies that do steal. She's a vegetarian - and despite the fact she was destroying herself with heroin, all we've seen is someone who's very people-conscious and very health-conscious. I believe she became a heroin addict because that's what she saw at home, and she essentially "self-medicated" (unconsciously) to deal with her anxiety and depression about the state-of-the-world.

Schitzo or not, it seems to me like she's really trying to get clean - her current actions certainly seem to indicate that. It also seems she really wants to deal with her mental health. She called just a little while ago, and said she wanted our help in making sure they send her to a rehab where she'll get psychiatric treatment as well, because, as she put it "I was really going crazy, and I don't want to 'wake up' someday, realize I'm 30-something and crazy with no college degree or any hope of doing something useful with my life, let alone not be able to support myself. I'm trying to get OFF drugs, and I don't like the idea of using drugs just because they're legal, but I know that there are some mental disorders that can't be helped except with drugs. I haven't been willing to take the medication in the past, but I guess these things can get worse as you get older, so I'll do what I have to do."

Of course that doesn't mean she'll follow through - but it does mean there's a part of her that wants the help and is willing to take the medication, which also means there's always hope in the future if she doesn't follow through now.

Although I switched majors in college, in high school I did work with mentally retarded children and took college-level classes. I also majored in special ed initially in college, so thankfully I have some training in working with people with special needs - and I do, apparently, have infinite patience. Seems like that will come in handy over time.
post #279 of 414
You know there is such a thing as drug induced psychosis. Wonder if there's a chance that it is all a part of her addiction? Afterall, Heroin is a very VERY nasty drug.

Just remember..... it's all about "tough love" with addicts.

(My name is Tammie and I'm a recovering addict) 16 years clean, as a matter of fact!
post #280 of 414
Oh boy am I glad to hear she is OK!
post #281 of 414
Laurie, I'm so glad you are hanging in there. My guess is you have found some books to quide you, your husband and Naomi along the way. But I wanted to recommend a couple to help you with the possible bipolar disorder I'm a bipolar and these books have helped me tremendously, plus they have some wonderful advice for friends and family. The co-morbid issue (bipolar plus substance abuse) is adressed in both books.

Bipolar Disorder: A Guide for Patients and Families, by Dr Mark Mondimore (Johns Hopkins)

The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide: What You and Your Family Need to Know, by David Miklowitz.

Don't give up Laurie. I've given up many, many times, but what has always kept me going was knowing that, my friends/family never did.
post #282 of 414
I'm happy to hear she entrered the detox program and is safe. I hope she has the strength to stay clean after this, she certainly has a reason to.
post #283 of 414
Well, even though things didn't go according to plans (things in these cases rarely ever do) and she was m,ore the less forced ibto an inpatient facility, it may be a blessing in disguise. It took her a lot of courage to show up at a place like that despite what she did and that says A LOT about her character traits. She sounds like a really great person, who happened to have a very bad life.

One thing that I have noticed in each of your posts is that Naomi has consistently shown that she WANTS to change her life for the better. I think that that was a VERY important step for her, and she has shown that she REALLY wants this. She is bound to have doubts on whether or not she can. You and Gary can remind her of this important step she has clearly made and use it to help her through her doubts.

The three of you are in all of our prayers!

post #284 of 414
Laurie, have not seen you around...hope all is well. You are in my thoughts.

post #285 of 414
:bump: :bump: :bump:

Looking forward to an update!

:bump: :bump: :bump:

post #286 of 414
Laurie, what an inspirational story. I'm fairly new here, but thank you for sharing.

I actually cried reading your post (I don't cry a lot), at the thought of just how much you and your husband have done to help out Naomi, as well as other street youth. You have such a huge heart.

All the best, and keep us updated as to Naomi's status, and how your new family is doing.
post #287 of 414
Thread Starter 
Wow - it's been such a long time since I've had the chance to do anything non work-related online. I MISS EVERYONE AT TCS SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't even remember where we were in the Naomi story....

Quick summary: she stuck out detox for four days, then decided she needed to do "methadone" detox. She transferred to a GREAT facility in upstate New York, where the lead psychiatrist was a pal of our Doc's at Harvard. He worked closely with her and her/our Doc, and she ended up being stabilized on Colonopin (for anxiety), paxil (mood stabilizer), seroquel (anti-psychotic), trazadone (anti-depressent and sleep-aid), and methadone (synthetic heroin, but you drink it). She did NOT stick out the inpatient program, but came back home after about a week and joined an out-patient methadone program. At first she basically slept all day (not a lot different than on heroin), but then she perked up, and was active in therapy and yoga. It was really touch for Gary and I to manage her, her schedule and work, which is why I haven't been around.

I passed one of the exams I needed for licenses for work. I take the second one Tuesday.

Anyway, things seemed to be going really well. Then about three nights ago I don't know what prompted it - she took her meds - but she got really, really depressed. We couldn't talk her out of it - she packed a backpack and headed back into the city two days ago. She's shooting again. We expected there would be false starts along the way. She's never been an adult not high, and her methadone doses were getting pretty low - she was only a couple of weeks away from finishing the program. There's not much we can do but wait, hope and pray.

Inside of Naomi is a truly beautiful and caring human being. I hope and pray she will become able to deal with life not high. It IS difficult, especially when you're not used to it, and she's never known any different. She's never had to manage a schedule before, she's never had to care about anyone else but herself before, and she's never had to do things she didn't really want to before (except go to jail several times). She seemed to be handling it all so well. We don't know what went wrong. She asked us to cancel all of her therapy and other appointments for the rest of the week. The hopeful news is that she asked us not to cancel anything for next week. So we've got our fingers crossed.....
post #288 of 414
Laurie, I saw you were on the site and was waiting for an update...You're missed here, too. Greatly.

Congratulations on passing your exam. The best of luck for the next on Tuesday

I still and always wish you and Gary the best with Naomi, and wish her the best, too. You've definately let us here on TCS see the wonderful person she is inside. I believe she's found the best parents to show her that side of her. Keeping you all in my thoughts.
post #289 of 414
Laurie, glad you are hanging in there. Life is all about stops and starts, only for some of us it's more evident. I have a good feeling about Naomi. Just the fact that even in her worst of times she keeps in touch with you and your husband speaks volumes.
Congratulations on you license tests, and good luck on the ones to come.
post #290 of 414
I agree with Barbara - the way she keeps up with you and Gary does speak volumes. You two are both such caring individuals and Naomi knows it, but the whole concept is still new to her, after not having adults who have really truly and honestly cared for her. And those fits and starts are to be expected. My thoughts are with you all as she goes through this.

post #291 of 414
Don't worry honey, just breathe in. It is normal for "false starts" to take place... but the fact that all this has happened, is a VERY good sign.... Trust me, you and Gary are far more deserving of canonization than half the names in the Church's list.
post #292 of 414
Laurie, just keep on keepin' on. It's a tough road you three have chosen to take, but you knew that going in. Love to all of you!
post #293 of 414
Wow I just saw this and I just wanted to say I hope she doesnt decide to cancel next week.. Im keeping my fingers crossed!
post #294 of 414
Originally Posted by valanhb
Laurie, just keep on keepin' on. It's a tough road you three have chosen to take, but you knew that going in. Love to all of you!
Couldn't have said it better
post #295 of 414
Laurie, it is such a relief to hear from you. Good luck for Tuesday!
post #296 of 414
Congratulations - I don't know how you managed to pass the exam with all that goingon! Good luck for the next one and also of course with NAomi.
post #297 of 414
Congrats on passing the test, and good luck for Tuesday's. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is just a minor setback for Naomi.
post #298 of 414
This is the first time this thread was anywhere where I actually saw it. And I read it from start to finish, almost like it was a reality movie! And when I was reading about Naomi waiting to find out if she was HIV positive I found myself praying that she was not sick!
I want you to know that you are doing something that is beyond anything I have ever heard of, and that it truly seems as if Naomi was brought into your lives because she was meant to. The dream about the tattoo, all of it. And at least you realized what you guys, as a family, were up against!
I think that at some point in the future, after this has come to be resolved...which hopefully, will be sooner as opposed to later...maybe you could sit down, and take this post, and write a book to help parents going through this kind of thing. I am sure that there are thousands already, but there is just something touching about this situation. Maybe because your husband dreamed of her, and then there she was, maybe because you followed your heart and adopted a daughter that had a mulitude of issues, and knew what you were doing, as opposed to actual parents not wanting to deal with and be confronted by this sort of thing.
You truly are a gift from heaven to that little girl. And she knows it, but those demons that have control over her are going to make it difficult for you. Just stay strong, and stick by her and keep your faith.
My thoughts and prayers will continue to be with you for a long, long time.
post #299 of 414
Wow! That's about all I can say. I only just began reading this post. I'm going to go back and read all the pages later, but I read the 1st few and last few. I'm amazed that there are still people like you and Gary in this world. It's so rare to see anymore. I truely hope everything goes well for the three of you. I must say that reading this just makes me turn over in my head the thoughts of what kind of a parent I'm going to make since I'm having my baby this weekend. I can only hope to give her all the love and support you've shown this child who isn't even your own. I know I will do my best and am so very proud to be a part of a sight associated with such wonderful caring people!

Good luck to you all and I will definately keep you all in my prayers.
post #300 of 414
I have also read this story for the first time. Started last night, finished tonight. All I can say is AWESOME!
This is so uplifting! I am sorry Naomi had a setback, but the way you stay optimistic is just amazing. You seem to be grounded in reality, but manage to continue believing in your new daughter.

At times, your comments take me back 22 years, to when I was a new mom to my newborn daughter. New parenting is difficult, but your comments do not sound like someone choosing to adopt or help out a forlorn kid. You sound like a loving parent who, like all parents, has no choice but to do your best for the child you love.

I am also a psych nurse. There are treatments for both bipolar and schizophrenia. And bipolar can involve breaks with reality during manic phases. (Although the drug use would be the main suspect until she is clean for a while.) She needs to get back on her meds as soon as possible, IMHO. She is lucky to have you.

I will be watching for updates. And how is Gary doing? I hope we hear good news (oh, how we all love a happy ending!) But honestly, if I never hear from you again, you have already blessed me by allowing me to share in this amazing story.
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